I've been playing Descent 2nd (no dlc) pretty intense for the last month, got different parties and saw each hero in action. Though I haven't got with any of them past Interlude, I've got big questions about their balance.

Most of the heroes/characters got their strong and weak sides, but the Runemaster and Wildlander completely changes the game.

Runemaster got the best start weapon in the game, I haven't seen better rune in Act 1 shop. +4 dmg (2 pierce, 2 dmg by ability) usually enough to kill the most enemies in one-two hits, so all who played with him never bought anything, waiting for Act 2. However, this hero doesn't have any defence, and could be contered by focusing or by "eye" traps.

The Wildlander with Jain character is completely different and is a pure OP. At first, "Black arrow" is probably the best DPS ability, that allows you to kill the most of the minions in one hit, and masters in two. Even dark fortitude won't help your minion dragon to survive two of this. So the only things that could save you, are out of range or miss. But hey, it got +2 range! So really it's just miss. Stamina should've stop him from spamming this skill, but it's cost is only 1, and since there is no point in using the surge for damage, usually it's used to discard this same 1 stamina. So usually this skill is just free.....

Well, if you see DD, you have to focus it, right? Not this time! Even without Nimble, Jain's hero ability allows her to take 8+5 = 13 damage before I'll bring her down. The knight got 12! And the best part, the next turn she will rest, and it will be the same as if she healed herself for 5 hp.

But that won't be a problem, if she wasn't as much mobile. 5 move is bad. But with Fleet of Foot she can move 10 squares without spending a single action.

I thought traps should conter such movement, but she got 4 "eye" and can't be harmed with the most of the traps. The only thing you got is the Web Trap. There's only 2 of them, and to make it worse, Jain's "daily" ability allows her to move 10 squares even if immobilized, so sometimes you could just waste your trap on her.

So what we got here, is a great DPS, but also tanky hero with the best mobility in the game. What I want to ask, is there something I've missed, that could help me to conter this disbalanced nightmare?

What you're missing is act 2. The wildlander is a powerful class (and pairs well with Jain,) but in Act 2 the monsters get much stronger. When a minion goblin archer has 4 health, black arrow isn't guaranteed to down them in 1.

Also, don't get stuck in the mindset that "beating the wildlander" means "knocking it down. Decent is about actions, not about attack rolls. If your wildlander is spending 2 actions on black arrow every round, that's searching and other objective completion she's not doing.

EDIT: Regarding the Arcane Bolt- this may not make you feel better but there are better Act 1 runes in the expanded shop decks.

I do find Jain a bit annoying on movement. But if you have large monsters and the right map you can block her moves, or if you have good strategy she may move to far from the other hero's and could easily be singled out. Also barghaest work great with their howl to chip away at stamina. If you keep jain's stamina high she will have to start taking damage. Also a rest for Jain is an action that doesnt help the group complete the objective.

I also think the arcane bolt isnt the best weapon and the pierce and damage is only good with a surge to spend.

You're not wrong that the wildlander (and Jain with the class in particular) are exceedingly good, but black arrow is the inferior of the two 3 xp abilities and not one of the stronger options. It's not obtainable until act 1 is almost over (and only then if you skip other abilities) and costs a good amount of fatigue, and it's quite weak in act 2.

My advice on dealing with the wildlander is to slow and hinder the other members of the group. The wildlander therefore has to go off on her own, at which point you can swarm her, or stay with the group, in which case her mobility advantage is nullified. Jain in particular gets quite a bit weaker in act 2 because her heroic ability becomes less useful.

The scout archetype is supposed to be the mobile chracter ina party, and you're right that Jain is fairly mobile, but she is not, by far, the most mobile character in the game. The Shadow Walker has a skill that lets it "teleport" and then attack, and it can use this as long as the conditions for the skill are met, not just once per quest, like Jain's feat.

Don't get too caught up on individuals and instead focus on the party. Does the party have synergy? Can you break that synergy and disrupt their plans?

It's quite possible for the heros to get all the treasures... and still lose the campaign.

Actually, I believe the wildlander is substantially more mobile than the shadow walker, over the course of a quest, given that the shadow walker's abilities are fairly situational and require set-up. The ridiculous amounts of free movement the wildlander get is kind of silly.

Nimble and Fleet of Foot are two powers that allow a Wildlander to move but they both require Fatigue to "use".

Running shot gives you 2 MP every time you use a bow to make an attack. None of these help you avoid hazards, elevation, portcullis or difficult terrain.

The Shadow Walker's Shadow Step allows to place your figure in the same square as your Shadow Soul, then perform an attack, at the cost of 1 fatigue and 1 action. Depending on what skill you used to place your Shadow Soul, this could be near (but over lava, through a portcullis, across elevation) or far (as far as you can throw/shoot). If yuo replace the Shadow Walker's axe with a good bow, this can be far, indeed.

The Wildlander is very mobile, but there are some campaign maps *cough Nerekhall cough* where I prefer the ability to jump, rather than the ability to spend fatigue to move further.

The Wildlander is very mobile, but there are some campaign maps *cough Nerekhall cough* where I prefer the ability to jump, rather than the ability to spend fatigue to move further.

I agree- there are several quests, specifically in Nerekhall, where the ability to "place" your figure is huge (for example, look at "The Rat-Thing King", encounter 2.) A Tinashi with "shadow step" can ensure victory for the heroes without much question.) I learned this when the first Nerekhall campaign played I faced off against a knight, and also tinashi the shadow walker, who has a very mobile heroic feat, as well.

As I mentionned upthread, scouts are supposed to be your mobility experts, no matter the class you choose, but like any situation, what you're up against should influence your choice.

Jain Farstrider, Wildlander, using her heroic feat and Running Shot, followed by exhausting your stamina to use fleet of foot could enable you to cover the whole length of the map in one activation.

But Tinashi, Shadow walker with Shadowstep could move just as far and through obstacles.

Tomble Burrowel, treasure hunter can also jet across the map, but he relies on search tokens and attacks for extra MP.

What you're missing is act 2. The wildlander is a powerful class (and pairs well with Jain,) but in Act 2 the monsters get much stronger.

That's my only hope. Probably will see next weekend.

Also, don't get stuck in the mindset that "beating the wildlander" means "knocking it down. Decent is about actions, not about attack rolls.

I'm totally fine that it's hard to beat her down. I can't beat down most of the healers either. But they are not as much mobile and DPS.

And even players think that party with 4 of Jaines wildlanders would be the best possible party in game. As such healer player and tank players felt they are pretty useless, which is bad.

Regarding the Arcane Bolt- this may not make you feel better but there are better Act 1 runes in the expanded shop decks.

Expanded - from dlcs? As I mentioned - I haven't tried any dlcs, because usually they destroys balance. Want to finish it as it is first. Poor DnD4...

I also think the arcane bolt isnt the best weapon and the pierce and damage is only good with a surge to spend.

Well, since usually one of the first skills Runemasters took was the one, that adds the surge, it is pretty good. And even without it, surge comes pretty often for blue + yellow dices.

The other two options from Act 1 deck are similar: Yellow + Blue rune with stun, that got pretty much the same DPS, and the blue + red one that is pretty good indeed, but not as much good to spend 150 gold on it.

The wildlander therefore has to go off on her own, at which point you can swarm her, or stay with the group, in which case her mobility advantage is nullified.

You're right, that was the only option I've found. But still swarming here is a very hard thing to do, because of that hp-to-stamina ability and dps.

What you're missing is act 2. The wildlander is a powerful class (and pairs well with Jain,) but in Act 2 the monsters get much stronger.

That's my only hope. Probably will see next weekend.

Also, don't get stuck in the mindset that "beating the wildlander" means "knocking it down. Decent is about actions, not about attack rolls.

I'm totally fine that it's hard to beat her down. I can't beat down most of the healers either. But they are not as much mobile and DPS.

And even players think that party with 4 of Jaines wildlanders would be the best possible party in game. As such healer player and tank players felt they are pretty useless, which is bad.

Regarding the Arcane Bolt- this may not make you feel better but there are better Act 1 runes in the expanded shop decks.

Expanded - from dlcs? As I mentioned - I haven't tried any dlcs, because usually they destroys balance. Want to finish it as it is first. Poor DnD4...

I also think the arcane bolt isnt the best weapon and the pierce and damage is only good with a surge to spend.

Well, since usually one of the first skills Runemasters took was the one, that adds the surge, it is pretty good. And even without it, surge comes pretty often for blue + yellow dices.

The other two options from Act 1 deck are similar: Yellow + Blue rune with stun, that got pretty much the same DPS, and the blue + red one that is pretty good indeed, but not as much good to spend 150 gold on it.

The wildlander therefore has to go off on her own, at which point you can swarm her, or stay with the group, in which case her mobility advantage is nullified.

You're right, that was the only option I've found. But still swarming here is a very hard thing to do, because of that hp-to-stamina ability and dps.

Descent actually has it's balance improved by adding expansions. Jain as a hero falls off hard in act 2, but is very strong in act 1. Her heroic ability becomes less and less useful the more damage that's being thrown at her, and the more abilities she has that cost stamina to use.

Given that the runemaster already has high damage from his/her abilities, there's no reason to need a high damage output rune like the starting one. The one with stun (sunburst I believe) is superior, because it makes the character more versatile.

You're right that swarming her in act 1 is tough, but she can't do it at all in Act 2 without being destroyed near instantly.

Your complaints so far have less to do with the wildlander in general and more to do with Jain Fairwood in particular as a hero. She's a very act 1 centric hero: she tries to snowball early with big advantages in the first act to compensate for a weaker lategame.

What you're missing is act 2. The wildlander is a powerful class (and pairs well with Jain,) but in Act 2 the monsters get much stronger.

That's my only hope. Probably will see next weekend.

Also, don't get stuck in the mindset that "beating the wildlander" means "knocking it down. Decent is about actions, not about attack rolls.

I'm totally fine that it's hard to beat her down. I can't beat down most of the healers either. But they are not as much mobile and DPS.

And even players think that party with 4 of Jaines wildlanders would be the best possible party in game. As such healer player and tank players felt they are pretty useless, which is bad.

Regarding the Arcane Bolt- this may not make you feel better but there are better Act 1 runes in the expanded shop decks.

Expanded - from dlcs? As I mentioned - I haven't tried any dlcs, because usually they destroys balance. Want to finish it as it is first. Poor DnD4...

I also think the arcane bolt isnt the best weapon and the pierce and damage is only good with a surge to spend.

Well, since usually one of the first skills Runemasters took was the one, that adds the surge, it is pretty good. And even without it, surge comes pretty often for blue + yellow dices.

The other two options from Act 1 deck are similar: Yellow + Blue rune with stun, that got pretty much the same DPS, and the blue + red one that is pretty good indeed, but not as much good to spend 150 gold on it.

The wildlander therefore has to go off on her own, at which point you can swarm her, or stay with the group, in which case her mobility advantage is nullified.

You're right, that was the only option I've found. But still swarming here is a very hard thing to do, because of that hp-to-stamina ability and dps.

Descent actually has it's balance improved by adding expansions. Jain as a hero falls off hard in act 2, but is very strong in act 1. Her heroic ability becomes less and less useful the more damage that's being thrown at her, and the more abilities she has that cost stamina to use.

Given that the runemaster already has high damage from his/her abilities, there's no reason to need a high damage output rune like the starting one. The one with stun (sunburst I believe) is superior, because it makes the character more versatile.

You're right that swarming her in act 1 is tough, but she can't do it at all in Act 2 without being destroyed near instantly.

Your complaints so far have less to do with the wildlander in general and more to do with Jain Fairwood in particular as a hero. She's a very act 1 centric hero: she tries to snowball early with big advantages in the first act to compensate for a weaker lategame.

Probably yes, my complain is not about Wildlander, but better about Jaine + Wildlander, because her Hero and daily abilities just blocks all class weak sides. But if you say that it's Act I problem, I think maybe it's not as bad as I thought. Got to check it in practice.

About expansions, could you please recommend me the one that should be the best for the balance?

About sunburst - it's stun effect is pretty great, but since Runemaster got very hight dmg, usually all the surges spent on damage, and you don't want to stun monster that will die this turn anyway. The only exceptions are leitenants, but it's still pretty rare case - poor Belthir died on the first person's turn in death on the wing. I just never thought that it would be so fast, and didn't spend the trap on that hero.

What you're missing is act 2. The wildlander is a powerful class (and pairs well with Jain,) but in Act 2 the monsters get much stronger.

That's my only hope. Probably will see next weekend.

Also, don't get stuck in the mindset that "beating the wildlander" means "knocking it down. Decent is about actions, not about attack rolls.

I'm totally fine that it's hard to beat her down. I can't beat down most of the healers either. But they are not as much mobile and DPS.

And even players think that party with 4 of Jaines wildlanders would be the best possible party in game. As such healer player and tank players felt they are pretty useless, which is bad.

Regarding the Arcane Bolt- this may not make you feel better but there are better Act 1 runes in the expanded shop decks.

Expanded - from dlcs? As I mentioned - I haven't tried any dlcs, because usually they destroys balance. Want to finish it as it is first. Poor DnD4...

I also think the arcane bolt isnt the best weapon and the pierce and damage is only good with a surge to spend.

Well, since usually one of the first skills Runemasters took was the one, that adds the surge, it is pretty good. And even without it, surge comes pretty often for blue + yellow dices.

The other two options from Act 1 deck are similar: Yellow + Blue rune with stun, that got pretty much the same DPS, and the blue + red one that is pretty good indeed, but not as much good to spend 150 gold on it.

The wildlander therefore has to go off on her own, at which point you can swarm her, or stay with the group, in which case her mobility advantage is nullified.

You're right, that was the only option I've found. But still swarming here is a very hard thing to do, because of that hp-to-stamina ability and dps.

Descent actually has it's balance improved by adding expansions. Jain as a hero falls off hard in act 2, but is very strong in act 1. Her heroic ability becomes less and less useful the more damage that's being thrown at her, and the more abilities she has that cost stamina to use.

Given that the runemaster already has high damage from his/her abilities, there's no reason to need a high damage output rune like the starting one. The one with stun (sunburst I believe) is superior, because it makes the character more versatile.

You're right that swarming her in act 1 is tough, but she can't do it at all in Act 2 without being destroyed near instantly.

Your complaints so far have less to do with the wildlander in general and more to do with Jain Fairwood in particular as a hero. She's a very act 1 centric hero: she tries to snowball early with big advantages in the first act to compensate for a weaker lategame.

Probably yes, my complain is not about Wildlander, but better about Jaine + Wildlander, because her Hero and daily abilities just blocks all class weak sides. But if you say that it's Act I problem, I think maybe it's not as bad as I thought. Got to check it in practice.

About expansions, could you please recommend me the one that should be the best for the balance?

About sunburst - it's stun effect is pretty great, but since Runemaster got very hight dmg, usually all the surges spent on damage, and you don't want to stun monster that will die this turn anyway. The only exceptions are leitenants, but it's still pretty rare case - poor Belthir died on the first person's turn in death on the wing. I just never thought that it would be so fast, and didn't spend the trap on that hero.

Yeah, Death on the Wing is fairly hero favored, the overlord has to burn everything in an attempt to win the first encounter, because Bel'thir drops like a rock in the second.

All the expansions add a lot of good stuff overall, and the end result is fairly balanced with all of them. I'd say to stay away from the conversion kit, some of the stuff in there is outdated and wildly overpowered (kobolds for example). Get a few lieutenant packs, they should help your experience as overlord. I'd suggest getting Labyrinth of Ruin or Shadow of Nerekhall first as an expansion.

Off-topic, but I love using the Golems on the first encounter of Death on the Wing.

whats overpowered about kobolds? a couple whirlwinds takes them out pretty fast. good against heroes specced for high damage rathar than mass damage though..

If you position them properly and spread them out correctly, they can eat up an absurdly large number of actions. There are just too many of them. I regularly face the runemaster in my campaigns (it's the favorite mage of my players by far because it limits my ability to use small monsters, which are my favorite), and I still find small monsters in large numbers the best.