Intercepters superior to A-wings for same points?

By dherve10, in Star Wars: Armada

Both are 11 points and have the following stats:

A-wing : Interceptor

Speed - 5:5

Hull - 4:3

Anti-squad dice - 3:4

Anti-ship dice - 1black:1blue

Abilities - counter2:counter2, swarm

First, the extra attack die seems to be an overall better value than 1 extra hull. The interceptor's extra attack die does more potential damage every attack; the extra hull only allows the a-wing to take an extra damage once.

Second, the interceptor adds swarm, further bumping the damage potential up for the interceptor.

The only advantage of the awing is the black die over the blue, but without the bomber ability, I'm not sure that it's that much better against cap-ships.

Am I missing anything? What are other's thoughts?

Overall faction balance. The interceptor is the premier anti-fighter squadron of the Imperials, whereas the x-wing is the one for the Rebels.

The a-wing is the rebels light fighter in the same vein as Tie fighters. Though to be fair I think you do have a point, I'm having a somewhat hard time envisioning what the role of the a-wing is supposed to be beyond using its speed 5 to intercept enemy squadrons at long range.

Overall faction balance. The interceptor is the premier anti-fighter squadron of the Imperials, whereas the x-wing is the one for the Rebels.

The a-wing is the rebels light fighter in the same vein as Tie fighters. Though to be fair I think you do have a point, I'm having a somewhat hard time envisioning what the role of the a-wing is supposed to be beyond using its speed 5 to intercept enemy squadrons at long range.

I don't mind the interceptor being better than the a-wing, but I think the cost should reflect that.

That 1 extra hull could be more important than you think. It will make the difference between surviving an average 4 blue dice attack or not.

Also, the A-Wing is possibly paying a premium for speed 5, as that is MUCH faster than any other rebel fighter, while the interceptor is only slightly faster than any other Imperial fighter. Covering a weakness is worth more than slightly enhancing a strength of an army list.

The point of the A Wing is to jump in and engage a squad to prevent it from being able to pile into a swarm, ideally not interceptors. Multiple A Wings can engage opposite sides of the swarm and hold the squads apart from each other, neutering swarm tactics, as long as you can get a cleanup squad there before even more TIEs pile in.

Additionally the added Hull means more opportunities for Counter to come into play.

That extra hull point could mean an extra Counter activation, as you still get that attack even if you're destroyed.

^^ Knew I shouldn't have hovered on that response...

Edited by Brian_Black

Additionally the added Hull means more opportunities for Counter to come into play.

Good point. I still wonder if a-wings shouldn't have the swarm ability as well. The hull/counter synergy is a good point, but I still feel that the interceptor getting this extra ability should but it's cost up a couple points, or the a-wing should receive it as well.

Personally, I like the differences- I see the A-wing as a squadron I'll activate early in the squadron phase to tie up enemy squadrons at inconvenient places, leaning on the extra health to dish out more counter attacks without a Squadron Command to move in the ship phase. Theoretically, this would be followed up with X-wings pushed by Squadron Commands on the next ship phase.

The Interceptor on the other hand will prefer to wait on a Squadron Command to deal a brutal attack then dare the crippled opposing fighters to attack and risk dying to a Counter. They're more reliant on a Squadron Command, but make an intimidating screen for a ship to go through.

Probably would pick up 2x Imperial Squadrons and just 1x Rebel for more Interceptors and Bombers.

Edited by Brian_Black

I dont mind the difference. and they arent neccessarily the same either.

Imagine a game (im not thinking of anything in particular) with two sides. Each side can do exactly the same thing as the other, for the exact same points. How boring would that be?

In understand the need for things to be "balanced" but if nothing is "strictly better" than anything else, I think, it would make the game monotonous.

Maybe the interceptor is better than the A wing(not saying yea or nay here), but if you complain about their similarities/differences why not complain that the X wing and Tie fighter are different? Or perhaps a better comparison would be the X wing and the Tie Adv.

Anyways, my point is, difference is good.

Comparing across factions does have meaning, but taking that as the only comparison leads to flawed conclusions.

The question isn't whether to take an A-Wing over a TIE/In as that situation will never arise. The question is what role does the A-Wing fill in the rebel fleet and is it worth 11 points?

For those 11 points you have a ship that can move the entire length of the ruler, and force any enemy that attacks it to suffer a counter attack. They are meant to be loners, intercepting enemy bombers and destroying them.

A TIE/In is meant to be the brunt of an Imperial Fleet's anti-fighter capability. Them vs TIE/Ln is 3 points for 1 more attack, 1 more speed and counter (kind of seems like a no-brainer to me barring point limitations, but I'll have to do some math on it later).

The A-wing is the fastest squad in the game (ties the TIE/In) and far away much faster than any other rebel squad. They are the alpha strikers, tying up the enemies TIEs (hehe) so the bombers have a clear path forward.

Imagine a game (im not thinking of anything in particular) with two sides. Each side can do exactly the same thing as the other, for the exact same points. How boring would that be?

it's called Chess, and it has been around a while. It's fairly popular ;)

Additionally the added Hull means more opportunities for Counter to come into play.

Good point. I still wonder if a-wings shouldn't have the swarm ability as well. The hull/counter synergy is a good point, but I still feel that the interceptor getting this extra ability should but it's cost up a couple points, or the a-wing should receive it as well.

Why? The value of the two Squadrons is not determined by a comparison between each other, but by the other options and role available within thier respective faction.

If Ties can fill a needed role better then the Interceptor, it won't matter if they are empirically superior to the A-wing, they won't see the table. If the Rebels have need of what an A-wing can do, it won't matter that the Interceptor would be better, Rebels can't take Interceptors.

Additionally the added Hull means more opportunities for Counter to come into play.

Good point. I still wonder if a-wings shouldn't have the swarm ability as well. The hull/counter synergy is a good point, but I still feel that the interceptor getting this extra ability should but it's cost up a couple points, or the a-wing should receive it as well.

Why? The value of the two Squadrons is not determined by a comparison between each other, but by the other options and role available within thier respective faction.

If Ties can fill a needed role better then the Interceptor, it won't matter if they are empirically superior to the A-wing, they won't see the table. If the Rebels have need of what an A-wing can do, it won't matter that the Interceptor would be better, Rebels can't take Interceptors.

This is absolutely the correct answer. If each faction had the choice of both, then one being "better" (and i'm not sold on the fact Interceptors actually are better) would be a big deal. But as Scottie says, it will depend on how they perform compared to their other faction options that's important.

The big difference is how Imperial and Rebel bombers work.

Tie Bombers function as a long range weapon "shot" by a Star Destroyer using the squadron command to punish unescorted ships or flankers, and establish zone control. If an enemy ship is trying to flank your VSD, throw the bombers not just into range, but at max range along the enemy's intended path and fire. The next turn the enemy ship will have to break off the flank, or allow the bombers to attack them next round without the need for a squadron command. Both the "Corruptor" title, and Major Rhymer's ability improve how bombers do this, with Corruptor improving range and positioning, and Rhymer increasing zone control and dramatically increasing the chance the bombers can shoot without a squadron command to reposition them.

Y-Wings, and especially B-wings, are slow and will basically be rammed up the middle with X-Wings to tank for them, and punch through the fighter screen. It's very likely that in order to succeed quickly enough, you will need to drive a capital ship along side them to provide squadron commands and anti-squadron fire. The neb-b seems best fitted for this roll with its 3 forward shields and 2 half-damage tokens. Without close-in squadron commands it will be very hard for the B-Wings to get in range and fire.

Thus, A-Wings are used to intercept Tie Bombers and use their higher HP and "counter" to shred the one dice Bombers with a very high effective ratio, while Tie Interceptors work hand in glove with regular Tie Fighters (unlike how X-wing's "escort" prevents an A-Wing's "counter" from working) with "counter" acting as a disincentive to target the higher damage squints first.

Also, unlike how X-Wings escort bombers, the Tie Advanced instead "tanks" for the low HP Tie fighters and interceptors as it doesn't have the firepower to shoot its way through a fighter screen and would reduce the numbers of bombers that could be sent out via a Squadron command. If you sent out say, two bombers and one advanced, the advanced would not be able to kill any ships that intercepted them fast enough, and reduce the firepower brought onto the enemy ship if they were able to fire. With Corruptor, the advanced wouldn't even be able to keep up with the bombers.