Just a quick question.. I remember seeing this on the offical rules, but unsure if it has changed. Are T.O's allowed to play in the store championship ?

Just a quick question.. I remember seeing this on the offical rules, but unsure if it has changed. Are T.O's allowed to play in the store championship ?

Yes as long as there is a second TO.

there was not. He was running the Store Championship and came in 8th. I'm a stickler for the rules,even when they hurt me. Rules are there for a reason.

They are not suppose to unless there is a second.

But in some stores if everyone is comfortable and ok with it, and In some cases prevents someone from having to sit out a round. TO will play.

Reason for two is so someone can make ruling for the game the to is playing in

Makes it a little more fair as I have heard some to have made some ridiculous calling in their games, usually which benifit them

That is a terrible to and should not be to at all imo

Since they receive items for being a to the proper thing is just past in any winning to the next place down

If they didn't that would be pretty bad

If I'm playing I usually make sure I have someone else who can make callings in my game

In our store tournament coming up i said I may not play. To allow room as we have limited space, but even if it didn't fill up i may only play if there is an uneven amount of players.

But I know everyone that will be there would probably like for me to play.

The last tourney I ran, I advised the players as they were registering that I would only play if we had odd numbers, so as to avoid someone sitting out a round. I appointed another player as second TO, but he was never needed in that capacity. The draw for the games was done randomly, and I ended up playing the 2nd TO in the first round. So I'm not sure what would have happened if we had a disagreement over something. Thankfully it was a good clean game.

At my local store, if the TO was not allowed to play there would simply be no tournaments. Every one that is the least bit qualifyed to TO allso realy wants to play (my self included).

If there are any rules questions, who ever is TO usualy asks me any way since I'm the only one in our group who enjoys hanging around these forums regularly

It's a small group and we tend to fly very casual, so no one objects to TO playing in the tournament any way.

there was not. He was running the Store Championship and came in 8th. I'm a stickler for the rules,even when they hurt me. Rules are there for a reason.

Just because it is a rule does not mean that it is a good rule. If you aren't happy that the person who took the time to arrange a store championship played in it as opposed to sitting there and fiddling on his cell phone for 8-12 hours, then you should sacrifice a Saturday to the gods of boredom and lost opportunities in order to TO the store championship next year.

I do T.O events. But the rules are there for a reason. If a t.o wins? How can a T.O help people with questions if he/she is playing? What about the person having t play the t.o and stopping every five seconds because the T.o is answering questions? There are many reasons why the rule is there. I was simply asking what the FF tourney rules were about T.O's playing as I'm trying to get our local small store more involved in the scene.Our local store owner does not care at all about getting Prize support or the tourney packages. He got 1 winter box from last year, split it up and that is our sprize support for this year.. and we have to pay 5$ a person to play. I was wanting to find out all the info from folks here I could as I'm goign to try and organize a group and get the tournoments together myself.

Have you honestly ever had a TO be approached every five seconds? Especially a question that required anything more than a three second answer?

The TO being allowed to play keeps the tournaments happening. Any conflict of interest, the few that can potentially arrise in X-Wing, are quickly resolved by polling the room or asking a neutral player.

Again...It was a simple question as to if it is allowed or not by the RULES. I'm not meaning to sound rude, but I'm not asking opinions and feelings on the matter. I T.O many a 40k tourney and Do not play. I have T.O a x-wing event and do not play, I don't mind organizing and spending all that time ensuring everyone can have fun.

You can ask whatever you want, but you can't dictate the answers. That particular rule can be an obstacle to the accessibility of events, so you should expect opinions against it.

As I see your wanting to argue, I will just stop and call FF this mornign and ask them myself. Thanks folks for your time and have a great day!

If TO couldn't play they would just quit being a TO or burn out and stop playing. There's no reason this needs to be a huge issue. It's pretty easy to find someone else who can do a ruling if needed in the primary TOs game.

I made a ruling on Saturday during a LCG event for a game with the TO even though I was never officially declared secondary TO everyone knows each other and that I am very good with the rules.

Stop arguing. No opinions. Move along.

If it's a small venue it would probably not be a issue

Ffg will just tell you what we already know

You need a second.

But if it's 10 players or so, then most usually knows everyone.

I've played in games I've to and never had a problem answering a question while moving my ships at the same time.

Granted it a close space lol

If your TO came in eighth place, that means there were probably at least seven other people that should know the rules, or be able to search for a rule or make an impartial ruling, well enough to settle any issues occurring during the TO's matches. In other words, some of those other players could become backup TOs as needed (temporarily), without taking more than a moment's break from their own games.

I really feel bad for players whose X-Wing experience is so lame that it's better to have a bye than to have enough faith in each other and common sense applications of the rules.

As I see your wanting to argue, I will just stop and call FF this mornign and ask them myself. Thanks folks for your time and have a great day!

But you had an answer in the first reply.

And then, because a forum is not a place for asking simple questions, getting the answer and dropping the topic, you get people who reply and expand the topic by giving their opinion as to why it is a bad rule, which is normal behaviour.

Allowing the TO to play makes for a bigger playing field, is more fun for the TO and fits nicely with the Fly Casual attitude.

If the only reason a TO is not allowed to play is because the rules won't allow it and you're a stickler for the rules while nobody volunteers to play second TO, I'm sorry, but I hope the TO will overrule the FAQ in your opponent's favour. He can do that, it's in the rules.

It was just a question... You folks are acting like im sort sort of *******. I was just asking a yes or no quesiton. Sorry i even posted here. And if it matters I did not even play in the tourney in question.

It was just a question... You folks are acting like im sort sort of *******. I was just asking a yes or no quesiton. Sorry i even posted here. And if it matters I did not even play in the tourney in question.

I think it's your replies that might have given people the wrong impression, especially this one.

And, to be honest, they can make it seem like you're wanting to stop a TO from participating in a store tournament - which is what most people are expressing their opinions on. Sometimes what people actually mean to say can get lost in the text-only format that is a forum.

If you were just looking for an official answer to your initial question, then you can find the following in the Tournament Rules PDF:

Tournament Organizer Participation

The TO may participate in a casual- or competitive-level tournaments for which he is responsible only if there is a second Tournament Organizer present. This second TO must be announced at the beginning of the tournament, and is responsible for all rulings for games in which the primary TO is playing.

During a premier tournament, judges and Tournament Organizers cannot participate. Tournament Organizers and judges for premier championship tournaments (Regionals, Nationals, and Worlds) are expected to commit their full attention to organizing and judging the event, and therefore are not permitted to participate in their own Regional, National, or World Championship events as players.

For what it's worth, in our local area we get between 10 and 16 people at tournaments (using the seasonal kits and the Store Championships). With such a low player count, it is (IMO) obviously better to have the TO participate. We do take the time to announce who the 2 TOs for the tournament are at the beginning. We have never had a problem and the TOs rarely have to answer any questions at all.

I am trying to get the stores who hold these events to be more rigorous in announcing the exact format a tournament will take before hand (number of rounds, length of rounds, etc.) as this can have some impact on how you build certain lists (see theorist's Smart Money: The 60 Minute Round blog post on the Team Covenant website).

That is not my intention. I am asking becuase I want to be T.O in our local store, as we are a small group and trying to get a league and group going. I want to make sure I follow the rules correctly. That is why I am asking.

Added- I do sound annoyed, Not ment to be aimed at the people here. it's more so with dealing with a store owner that refuses to do anything prize support wise, and when he does.. He splits it up and uses 1 box for a years worth of play, And expects us to buy in each time. It's not right, We all spend money at our local store..but get nothing back in return. It's gottent o the point..to where Us older gents are actually talking about starting our own hobby shop. So..In saying all that I apologize if i came off hostile, not my intent. Just frustrated because Our gaming group after 4 years is dying very very quickly, and the store's action are the cause, And nothing we can do will fix it.

Well, a gaming group doesn't necessarily have to meet at a store of course. All you need are a couple of tables and a few hours.

Look around your area, maybe there's a bar you could meet up during the day on weekends? Or a church or something?

But, to get back to your original question, and coupled with your intent, feel free to participate as long as there's someone willing to rule when you yourself are playing. Anyone can easily ask, and answer, questions during normal game time. It must be a very hard question if it would take more than a minute to answer.

That is not my intention. I am asking becuase I want to be T.O in our local store, as we are a small group and trying to get a league and group going. I want to make sure I follow the rules correctly. That is why I am asking.

Good initiative! The Tournament Rules document I linked to should be a good reference for you in that case!

Added- I do sound annoyed, Not ment to be aimed at the people here. it's more so with dealing with a store owner that refuses to do anything prize support wise, and when he does.. He splits it up and uses 1 box for a years worth of play, And expects us to buy in each time. It's not right, We all spend money at our local store..but get nothing back in return. It's gottent o the point..to where Us older gents are actually talking about starting our own hobby shop. So..In saying all that I apologize if i came off hostile, not my intent. Just frustrated because Our gaming group after 4 years is dying very very quickly, and the store's action are the cause, And nothing we can do will fix it.

Good luck working with your local store. It does seem like he is being a little cheap on the prize support, unfortunately. Are there any other stores in the area?

Unfortunately, I do not think you can officially purchase tournament kits without being an actually hobby store. I do remember seeing some tournament kits show up on an online game store - can't remember which one and can't find any currently listed. FFG might've put a stop to that. They do also show up on eBay sometimes but are often at ridiculous prices.

Another option, if you don't mind not having the official promos could be to order third-party acrylics from one of the many vendors (teamconvenant, corsex engineering, cog o two, etc.) and have them as prizes for your tourneys. For example, a set of Cog 'O' Two acrylic templates and token is 32€ (37$US) + shipping, which is easily covered by charging 5$ per person!

My monthly gaming group started by getting together in the afternoon on Sundays in a pub and playing. I've moved it to my place since then but it is going on 3 years now.

You can appoint a second T.O. when you are affected by the outcome of the ruling in your game. It is covered in the official tournament rules. Best to do it at the start of the tournament and not right before you need a decision made by a bud you just promoted.

That is not my intention. I am asking becuase I want to be T.O in our local store, as we are a small group and trying to get a league and group going. I want to make sure I follow the rules correctly. That is why I am asking.

Added- I do sound annoyed, Not ment to be aimed at the people here. it's more so with dealing with a store owner that refuses to do anything prize support wise, and when he does.. He splits it up and uses 1 box for a years worth of play, And expects us to buy in each time. It's not right, We all spend money at our local store..but get nothing back in return. It's gottent o the point..to where Us older gents are actually talking about starting our own hobby shop. So..In saying all that I apologize if i came off hostile, not my intent. Just frustrated because Our gaming group after 4 years is dying very very quickly, and the store's action are the cause, And nothing we can do will fix it.

Ignore your store if they're ignoring you and your players. Don't rely on them for the venue as it's pretty easy to find another venue. Local church halls, or similar venues are everywhere and usually willing to rent out space for monthly or fortnightly meetings.

Go from being a casual group of guys to a proper gaming club, and don't give it an obscure name, as it carries more weight when you're looking for a venue if the name sounds legit.

I started a gaming club 23 years ago and we're still going. We have a long standing booking at a hall owned by the local boy scouts and they have even given us space to store out 8'x4' tables and trestles. It's not a hard thing to do. The secret of our success was to make sure the club's rules were short and sweet and the club executives consist of just two guys. There's no politics, so there's no dramas. Make sure you allow all sorts of gaming at your club, not just X-wing, and you'll not only see lots of other games, but you might just enlist some more X-wing players as well. Once other gamers see the attraction of X-wing, they might be keen to give it a go.