After reading Theorists' article (Smart Money) on the Team Covenant site, (excellent read BTW) he raises a lot of good points on the downside of 60 minute timed games in Xwing tourney play. Now I realize that depending on the turn out( folks playing) the TO can adjust the time of games as to fit all the games into an 8 hour day.However, when facing the list: BBBBZ in a 60 minute match, you are setting yourself up for a loss.

Having to re-make, re-calculate your list that you've been flying and practicing with, just to beat the clock, as it were, seems like all the hope we have to beat this list. I don't mind a challenge and will probably re- work my list choices to deal with this interesting puzzle.

I've play tested several powerful lists against BBBBZ, and I found out in 3 timed 60 minute games that you can't kill enough of the B's to pull off a point win. Only after going 75 mins was I able to take out 1 more B with Whisper. (we carried on 15 mins more in the 3rd game to see what would happen)

Do we change everything up to beat the clock?(B's) "Or" is it even worth it to play in a tourney when every person and his dog is flying BBBBZ?

Read Theorists' article and see what you think!

Slainte' Everyone! (cheers)

I realize it sucks that there's a time limit, but if there weren't, you'd have that perpetual draw where a guy in a broken down TIE is trying to outrun a B-wing forever. There has to be a point where it ends.

LOL! your right Banana! Believe me, I think there absolutely should be a time limit, otherwise, well, you know...a 1/2 dead tie trying to catch a healthy B wing!

I played in a store tournament yesterday, and my only win was against a BBBB list with each B having Tactician. Not quite the same as what you're talking about, but I killed all 4 B's in about 40 minutes (we had 75 minute round).

Not one of my 4 games went to time.

Well it does depend on how it's flown.

Just like not all fat hans win every game

I don't think this belongs in the rules forum. It is neither a rules question or likely to generate the discussion you are looking for.

You're probably right Scottie, however this topic follows a' Grey Line' in between list building and wondering if the 60 minute game is worth playing or not.(Rules for tourney play regarding game time limits.) I suppose I could have posted in the organized game section. wasn't sure exactly. Sorry for the transgression if there is one.

No, I'm just saying General is likely the better place for this. It just isn't going to get the play you are looking for here

I'm wondering now after reading this article how 6 bombers would fair out

Gives you same amount of hp as bbbbz.

36hp

Two less red dice

12 vs 14

But an extra green dice each.

12 vs 6

Still have 4 pts left over so maybe throw a prox mines on one, puts you at 99 for initiative.

Vs bbbbz, they will get to shoot first hopefully killing a b before it shoots

Problem with this is the initiative, if your PS is equal to the B's they will get to shoot. Potentially dropping you down even more red dice the next round.

You can have the same problem with an length of rounds really, depending on the speed of the players and their tactics.

Problem with this is the initiative, if your PS is equal to the B's they will get to shoot. Potentially dropping you down even more red dice the next round.

6 bombers is 96

If you went with one proximity mine that puts you at 99

You get to shoot and move before bbbbz

Problem with this is the initiative, if your PS is equal to the B's they will get to shoot. Potentially dropping you down even more red dice the next round.

Well bbbbz is 100 pts

6 bombers is 96

If you went with one proximity mine that puts you at 99

You get to shoot and move before bbbbz

But, thanks to simultaneous fire, at equal PS, the B's will get to shoot, no matter who has initiative.

By having initiative, you'll get to move first, potentially block, and your attacks might strip their tokens before they shoot. But they'll get to move after you and potentially Barrel Roll out of you arcs.

Hmm this is also true

How about this

4 Syndicate thug

Autoblaster turret

Title

Unhinged astromech

Binayre pilot

Hot shot Blaster

Now your basically at the same pt per ship

But if you managed to get all ships at range one

That's 23 red dice.

And i believe you have99 pts for initiative.

You still have the simultaneously fire from the b and yes they can arc dodge, but just like the bombers you move first and you get better chance to block.

One thing about the bombers. Two mini swarm 3 each still makes it easier to block and can cover a lot of area arc wise. Still be hard to barrel roll out of that way. Maybe one or two bwing can barrel roll but i doubt all will avoid it

I am going to do some play testing with these two builds when time allows

Love the thug list Krynn, but can you win with it or beat it in 60 min? that is the question. like a chap replied to Theorists' post, that he'd rather play 4 full complete games than 5 games that got called for time. Quite un-satisfying imo. then again a win is a win and a loss is a loss no matter which side of the cheeze is sliced first. but to make a top 4 or 8 you gotta have the kills.

Youth and speed are no match for Old age and treachery... and death to the 60 min time limit

There is a store championship in March 8th in my local store... So I'm going to see a lot of BBBBZs? Booo

Show up with 6 bombers?

96 pts

Or

4 Syndicate thug

Autoblaster Turret

TTitle

Unhinged astromech

Binayre pilot

Hot shot Blaster

After reading Theorists' article (Smart Money) on the Team Covenant site, (excellent read BTW) he raises a lot of good points on the downside of 60 minute timed games in Xwing tourney play. Now I realize that depending on the turn out( folks playing) the TO can adjust the time of games as to fit all the games into an 8 hour day.However, when facing the list: BBBBZ in a 60 minute match, you are setting yourself up for a loss.

Having to re-make, re-calculate your list that you've been flying and practicing with, just to beat the clock, as it were, seems like all the hope we have to beat this list. I don't mind a challenge and will probably re- work my list choices to deal with this interesting puzzle.

I've play tested several powerful lists against BBBBZ, and I found out in 3 timed 60 minute games that you can't kill enough of the B's to pull off a point win. Only after going 75 mins was I able to take out 1 more B with Whisper. (we carried on 15 mins more in the 3rd game to see what would happen)

Do we change everything up to beat the clock?(B's) "Or" is it even worth it to play in a tourney when every person and his dog is flying BBBBZ?

Read Theorists' article and see what you think!

Slainte' Everyone! (cheers)

I've read the article! It's not very good, after all: there's no reason it should take 1,300 words to say "Short rounds distort the game by placing an artificially high premium on defense."

I found this out the hard way when I played in my first Regional- http://www.themetalbikini.com/2013/06/regionals-2013-why-did-i-lose.html

Long story short, aside from a handful of games during the Kessel Run, I'd never played X-Wing to time limits prior to that tournament. This meshed up particularly bad for me as I was going with more defensively-oriented lists (I know, I know) that tended to win by 1,000 paper cuts rather than a Han +Gunner smash 'em up.

Playing to time in a tournament will have little effect on some folks' list choices, but for some like me, it had a very dramatic effect. Whether that distorts the game is subjective, but I can't imagine time limits in tournaments going away any time soon, so best to play with tournament rules when you're prepping for a tournament.