Something also to consider is player fatigue. If I'm going to an event where i can expect to play 5-6 rounds of swiss followed by 3 more games after a cut, I'm more likely to bring a list that doesn't require as much thought, then if i was playing 2 games on random Thursday night. I dunno about you but if I'm in the finals at 2am (some of the larger events) after playing since noon, I'd be **** glad I'm flying a list such as fat Han that's "easy" to fly as opposed to the 86 phantom list. Mental fatigue can be a huge issue, and knowing that it can be an issue could and in my case does factor into list selection.

We had a store championship on Saturday. Surprisingly there was one player with a Decimator, and one with Cheebo. Everyone was running Whisper.

I placed second with:

Wes Janson + VI

Wedge

Luke

Bandit

The winner had:

Whisper + VI + Gunner + FCS + ACD

Echo + VI + Recon Spec

Academy

I had built the list because I was expecting to see Decimators everywhere. I had a really rough time against the Phantoms, but I still beat them, because I am awesome.

I showed up to my FLGS where an sc was going on. 2400 and a fat falcon list, vs another 2400 and fat falcon. Other game going on was super corran and a fat falcon, vs a relatively refreshing weapons engineer lando and corran list.

Still though, I don't understand how you can enjoy playing turrets incessantly. Maybe every once and a while, but why even setup your ships in a turret on turret fight? Just take turns rolling dice at each other for 60 minutes because that's pretty much all you're doing anyways.

So tournaments are dominated by the meta, SCs obviously so, and now casual game night has just turned into, "I need to get in some practice with my tournament list" night. So I haven't faced something fun in a while.

Have you ever seen high level players both use turrets. There is a ton of thinking that goes into it. If you think it's just rolling dice then you're very far from the truth. It might not be on YouTube yet but watch epic loots store championship to see Jeff b and Eric b play each other in the finals and you'll see that there is a ton of thinking involved.

Yes. It's boring as heck. Both of them skirt the side of the board and try to get range 3 shots until one of them gets bored to death and engages. Then he loses.

However, could you imagine if you only got the +1 attack die for Range 1 in your primary arc. The maneuvering by the two expert players would be something to behold. I still don't understand why 360 big ships with all their other advantages also get the +1 attack die bonus when you are not in their primary arc at range 1. This is what needs to be asked of Alex Davey the next time someone gets to talk with him.

I showed up to my FLGS where an sc was going on. 2400 and a fat falcon list, vs another 2400 and fat falcon. Other game going on was super corran and a fat falcon, vs a relatively refreshing weapons engineer lando and corran list.

Still though, I don't understand how you can enjoy playing turrets incessantly. Maybe every once and a while, but why even setup your ships in a turret on turret fight? Just take turns rolling dice at each other for 60 minutes because that's pretty much all you're doing anyways.

So tournaments are dominated by the meta, SCs obviously so, and now casual game night has just turned into, "I need to get in some practice with my tournament list" night. So I haven't faced something fun in a while.

Have you ever seen high level players both use turrets. There is a ton of thinking that goes into it. If you think it's just rolling dice then you're very far from the truth. It might not be on YouTube yet but watch epic loots store championship to see Jeff b and Eric b play each other in the finals and you'll see that there is a ton of thinking involved.

The most amount of thinking I've encountered is Decimator vs Super Dash, obviously because of the Range 1 bubble. I agree that turrets vs turrets are about the lamest fights imaginable. More often than not, it actually does feel like a dice war. There's very little thinking involved compared to standard ships. I went 4-1 at my first tournament with Decimator + Phantom. I really just had to worry about the Phantom. When you don't have to worry about your ship's firing arc, it takes considerably less thought to maneuver than any other ship in the game. I contend that it should be more challenging than it is.

Yes. It's boring as heck. Both of them skirt the side of the board and try to get range 3 shots until one of them gets bored to death and engages. Then he loses.

However, could you imagine if you only got the +1 attack die for Range 1 in your primary arc. The maneuvering by the two expert players would be something to behold. I still don't understand why 360 big ships with all their other advantages also get the +1 attack die bonus when you are not in their primary arc at range 1. This is what needs to be asked of Alex Davey the next time someone gets to talk with him.

I would argue that isn't high level play, when you're lower ps skill you gotta think about the asteroid lanes, where and when to engage, setting up obstructed shots, worrying about damage mitigation and how to get past it. Way more then just hey let's roll dice.

I'm sure that high level playing with the big, turreted ships is more exciting than lower level play, but I still call it boring.

I'm sure that high level playing with the big, turreted ships is more exciting than lower level play, but I still call it boring.

To each there own, gotta admit they're effective at winning tournaments.

I went in with Soontir, Turr and Whisper and did very well; 3 wins and 1 loss. There were lots of decimators, however, but I managed to take down the Fat Han squadron, so I was ok with that

Yes, lots of turrets out there but... I'm still surprised regularly by innovative lists that shake the meta. At least in my area. The best at maneuvering will always have a huge advantage, no matter what they fly. This has been true since the beginning of the game of course, and I find it is still very relevant. Furthermore, turreted ships also require good flying to be at their most effective.

So far, the SF Bay Area has had 3x store champs, and I've been surprised at the list variety. The first two had a bunch of decimators, often (but not always) paired with a named phantom. The third had a ton of rebel swarms (panic attack, named X+BBZ, etc.), and zero fat Hans. We even had XXXZZZ snag 5th after swiss (I don't think they've finished the top 8 cut yet)!

I fly a take-all-comers list, and I'm glad, because counter-building the meta here is basically impossible.

Yikes! Lots of turret hate. Do people honestly believe it takes less thought to run turrets? I find that turret vs. turrets are the games where I have to think hardest. You need to get the right lanes through or around asteroids, as AtomicFryingPan has said, and you have to think about range a great deal. When do you get the range 3 agility bonus instead of dashing in for the range 1 attack bonus? The pilot abilities of the Decimators really change the way they fly.

It has been pointed out that they cost a huge proportion of your squad points, so if you don't fly smart you are toast. A lot of me wants to try a non-turret list at Store Championships, but I LIKE Commander Kenkirk, and I'm going to fly him and enjoy it!

I'm sure that high level playing with the big, turreted ships is more exciting than lower level play, but I still call it boring.

One of the players had lando and corran, so maneuvering was still important somewhat. He also had weapons engineer on lando which was cool. Still boring, but if it faced a list without a turret it would be entertaining.

With turrets a lot of the time you can patch over a ****** maneuver with a boost and barrel roll that wasn't planned ahead of time. With the ability to fire outside of your arc, you can boost/barrel roll willy nilly and still get a shot.

I'm sure that high level playing with the big, turreted ships is more exciting than lower level play, but I still call it boring.

To each there own, gotta admit they're effective at winning tournaments.

Yes, but that's why you see a lot of people bitching about the game lately. I'm not saying they are over powered. I am seeing a lot of people sick of playing against nothing but big, turreted ships.

I also think some tournament rules make it better for them. Only 60 min helps keep big ships alive. Only ships destroyed keeps them in the top brackets. I'd love to see half points for over half damage, personally. Also, longer rounds.

I'm surprised by the outsiders overwhelming flgs which have limited space available.

I'm sure that high level playing with the big, turreted ships is more exciting than lower level play, but I still call it boring.

To each there own, gotta admit they're effective at winning tournaments.

Yes, but that's why you see a lot of people bitching about the game lately. I'm not saying they are over powered. I am seeing a lot of people sick of playing against nothing but big, turreted ships.

I also think some tournament rules make it better for them. Only 60 min helps keep big ships alive. Only ships destroyed keeps them in the top brackets. I'd love to see half points for over half damage, personally. Also, longer rounds.

They aren't unbeatable. I went 4-1 at a store championship in the Swiss rounds with luke, jake,and 3 bandits. I lost to a swarm but beat 4 bombers, chiraneu whisper, dash and z's, chewie and corran.

I just build a good list, flew smart, had some lucky rolls, and I beat dreaded turret ships. After the cut I was against my friends dash corran list and I already had a store championship win so we split the focus tokens and I took a dive. Not before killing corran and taking dash's shields down and keeping luke and Jake in his range 1 spot for a few turn to drive home I could have beat him .

Moral of the story is whining about it gets people nowhere and honestly makes people look like bad players if they constantly drag on about it. Adapt and overcome.

I'm sure that high level playing with the big, turreted ships is more exciting than lower level play, but I still call it boring.

To each there own, gotta admit they're effective at winning tournaments.

Yes, but that's why you see a lot of people bitching about the game lately. I'm not saying they are over powered. I am seeing a lot of people sick of playing against nothing but big, turreted ships.

I also think some tournament rules make it better for them. Only 60 min helps keep big ships alive. Only ships destroyed keeps them in the top brackets. I'd love to see half points for over half damage, personally. Also, longer rounds.

They aren't unbeatable. I went 4-1 at a store championship in the Swiss rounds with luke, jake,and 3 bandits. I lost to a swarm but beat 4 bombers, chiraneu whisper, dash and z's, chewie and corran.

I just build a good list, flew smart, had some lucky rolls, and I beat dreaded turret ships. After the cut I was against my friends dash corran list and I already had a store championship win so we split the focus tokens and I took a dive. Not before killing corran and taking dash's shields down and keeping luke and Jake in his range 1 spot for a few turn to drive home I could have beat him .

Moral of the story is whining about it gets people nowhere and honestly makes people look like bad players if they constantly drag on about it. Adapt and overcome.

I never stated that they aren't beatable. Lots of people aren't saying they are over powered. Lots of people are sick of playing against them, though. If you look at what people are saying, they report that 75% or more of all lists taken to Store Championships are big, turreted ships. THAT'S BORING. I know for a fact that it is turning people away from showing up at events because what's the fun of playing practically the same list 4+ times in a row? More if you get to final rounds.

I'm surprised by the outsiders overwhelming flgs which have limited space available.

as one of those 'outsiders' i rather resent that statement. i love this game, and i want to play in as many events and meet as many people as possible. i traveled hundreds of miles last weekend to attend two separate events. i met some great guys, and had some superb games. i feel i learned a huge amount about how to play my favourite list.

also, i signed up after at least a week of tickets being available, so the 'locals' had plenty of time to sign up. what exactly is your problem?

I'm sure that high level playing with the big, turreted ships is more exciting than lower level play, but I still call it boring.

To each there own, gotta admit they're effective at winning tournaments.

Yes, but that's why you see a lot of people bitching about the game lately. I'm not saying they are over powered. I am seeing a lot of people sick of playing against nothing but big, turreted ships.

I also think some tournament rules make it better for them. Only 60 min helps keep big ships alive. Only ships destroyed keeps them in the top brackets. I'd love to see half points for over half damage, personally. Also, longer rounds.

They aren't unbeatable. I went 4-1 at a store championship in the Swiss rounds with luke, jake,and 3 bandits. I lost to a swarm but beat 4 bombers, chiraneu whisper, dash and z's, chewie and corran.

I just build a good list, flew smart, had some lucky rolls, and I beat dreaded turret ships. After the cut I was against my friends dash corran list and I already had a store championship win so we split the focus tokens and I took a dive. Not before killing corran and taking dash's shields down and keeping luke and Jake in his range 1 spot for a few turn to drive home I could have beat him .

Moral of the story is whining about it gets people nowhere and honestly makes people look like bad players if they constantly drag on about it. Adapt and overcome.

I never stated that they aren't beatable. Lots of people aren't saying they are over powered. Lots of people are sick of playing against them, though. If you look at what people are saying, they report that 75% or more of all lists taken to Store Championships are big, turreted ships. THAT'S BORING. I know for a fact that it is turning people away from showing up at events because what's the fun of playing practically the same list 4+ times in a row? More if you get to final rounds.

It's not boring to me and a lot of people I play with. That's what you have to expect at these kind of events. The majority of people are trying to win and bringing top tier lists.

Back in Jan I played in a 24 player tournement, 18(ish) were 2 ship builds, with about the same number of players with a large based ship.

In under 2 weeks I've got my Store Championship (2nd ever tournement for X-wing), I'm going in expecting to deal with Decimators and other large based ships.

I'm surprised by the outsiders overwhelming flgs which have limited space available.

as one of those 'outsiders' i rather resent that statement. i love this game, and i want to play in as many events and meet as many people as possible. i traveled hundreds of miles last weekend to attend two separate events. i met some great guys, and had some superb games. i feel i learned a huge amount about how to play my favourite list.

also, i signed up after at least a week of tickets being available, so the 'locals' had plenty of time to sign up. what exactly is your problem?

It's not boring to me and a lot of people I play with. That's what you have to expect at these kind of events. The majority of people are trying to win and bringing top tier lists.

Well, I see it turn off a lot of people in my general area and online in these forums. Also, when you see people complain about it online, try not to just assume they are whining about them being OP and perhaps actually read what they type. You might find that people are just sick of playing against them.

For me, I like a game that is balanced. Balanced doesn't mean the same number of Decimators vs. the same number of YT-1300's vs. the same number of YT-2400's vs. the same number of Phantoms. The game has gotten quite stale with rock, paper, scissors mentality. If "top tier" means one of these boring and safe lists, then it's not a balanced game. I'm looking forward to a lot of changes that this year brings, but Wave 5 has been the worst in many people's minds.

I'm surprised by the outsiders overwhelming flgs which have limited space available.

as one of those 'outsiders' i rather resent that statement. i love this game, and i want to play in as many events and meet as many people as possible. i traveled hundreds of miles last weekend to attend two separate events. i met some great guys, and had some superb games. i feel i learned a huge amount about how to play my favourite list.

also, i signed up after at least a week of tickets being available, so the 'locals' had plenty of time to sign up. what exactly is your problem?

Because some stores aren't handling it as well as the ones you went to with tickets. Part of the problem is stores that just don't have the room to host an event getting kits, but it can still be an issue. The other local store here doing one is asking people to come into the store in the leadup week to signup as they're capping to 20 something people for space and are expecting a lot of out of towners.

I know I'd be annoyed if I got to my local store for the championship tournament only to find they didn't have space left because a few carloads of guys from several hours away drove in for their second(or third, or fourth...) event.

Yikes! Lots of turret hate. Do people honestly believe it takes less thought to run turrets? I find that turret vs. turrets are the games where I have to think hardest. You need to get the right lanes through or around asteroids, as AtomicFryingPan has said, and you have to think about range a great deal. When do you get the range 3 agility bonus instead of dashing in for the range 1 attack bonus? The pilot abilities of the Decimators really change the way they fly.

It has been pointed out that they cost a huge proportion of your squad points, so if you don't fly smart you are toast. A lot of me wants to try a non-turret list at Store Championships, but I LIKE Commander Kenkirk, and I'm going to fly him and enjoy it!

It is easier to fly large turret versus large turret. You only get in to range 1 if your opponent lets you (or the Board edge does). Weapon Arc is relevent, which is a significant factor when flying other ships.

Other than that, it's the build and throwing dice

I think the phantom is OP. Fat turrets, while boring to play against when every list has at least one and perhaps sometimes annoying to play against, aren't OP.

It's just that I'm tired of having to face what is essentially just one list in every matchup I play.

When I place top 8 in a SC with a generic phantom and a swarm and everyone else is running fat turret lists it's a bit boring, even when I'm winning because I'm flying a swarm.