I'm surprised by the outsiders overwhelming flgs which have limited space available.

as one of those 'outsiders' i rather resent that statement. i love this game, and i want to play in as many events and meet as many people as possible. i traveled hundreds of miles last weekend to attend two separate events. i met some great guys, and had some superb games. i feel i learned a huge amount about how to play my favourite list.

also, i signed up after at least a week of tickets being available, so the 'locals' had plenty of time to sign up. what exactly is your problem?

Because some stores aren't handling it as well as the ones you went to with tickets. Part of the problem is stores that just don't have the room to host an event getting kits, but it can still be an issue. The other local store here doing one is asking people to come into the store in the leadup week to signup as they're capping to 20 something people for space and are expecting a lot of out of towners.

I know I'd be annoyed if I got to my local store for the championship tournament only to find they didn't have space left because a few carloads of guys from several hours away drove in for their second(or third, or fourth...) event.

wow, i didn't know that 'turn up and pay on the door' was still even a thing. here in the UK i don't think i've heard of a single event that hasn't sold its tickets online several weeks in advance, although in some cases it took several weeks to sell out, if at all. i can indeed see how that would be annoying, but over here i don't think it's an issue.

So great that you have time and ability to travel 200 miles to play in two events at stores that were letting people sign up early.

you mean i have weekends off, a few mates to share petrol with, and own a car? that really isn't that unique you know.

When the record for any previous x wing event was 10 people, it didn't really make sense to sell advanced seating.

The topic was on surprises. 40 people showing up is a surprise.

This game is far to popular to be catching stores off guard anymore. If you intend to have an event the store should be prepared for large crowds and know ahead of time what their plan is.

Regional interest? What's that?

Yikes! Lots of turret hate. Do people honestly believe it takes less thought to run turrets? I find that turret vs. turrets are the games where I have to think hardest. You need to get the right lanes through or around asteroids, as AtomicFryingPan has said, and you have to think about range a great deal. When do you get the range 3 agility bonus instead of dashing in for the range 1 attack bonus? The pilot abilities of the Decimators really change the way they fly.

It has been pointed out that they cost a huge proportion of your squad points, so if you don't fly smart you are toast. A lot of me wants to try a non-turret list at Store Championships, but I LIKE Commander Kenkirk, and I'm going to fly him and enjoy it!

It is easier to fly large turret versus large turret. You only get in to range 1 if your opponent lets you (or the Board edge does). Weapon Arc is relevent, which is a significant factor when flying other ships.

Other than that, it's the build and throwing dice

absolutely this

It is objectively more difficult to play arced ships simply because they have an arc.

Turreted primary weapon ships are the most forgiving ship type in the game, which can quickly recover from poor positioning (360 firing), yet more poor positioning (large base boost with no need to account for facing), action denial (action independent upgrades such as C3PO or gunner, or action step independent upgrades such as isanne), and just plain getting shot at (large amount of combined health with guaranteed defenses). They're not overpowered or unbeatable at all, they're just incredibly forgiving and the ship type that is most prone to pulling dice-based victories out its ass because it can't be outmaneuvered.

Forgot to mention complete lack of partial scoring that lets a 55+ point ship reward nothing even if it managed to luck out of 1 or 2 points of damage.

Not that being forgiving has to be a bad thing. Every game needs its forgiving ships and its unforgiving glass cannons to balance out variety and cater to all different playstyles, and there's no shame associated with playing any part of the scale (and anyone trying to shame you for it is probably just trying to smooth over the fact that you outplayed them ).

My personal problem is with the proliferation of large based turrets everywhere and with the rather slapshod turret rule of "eh, **** it, just shoot at whatever's in range," which does not make the game enjoyable for me (someone who rather prefers the dice independent maneuvering phase for perhaps very obvious reasons).

The issue is that the ire is being directed towards the players that did nothing but show up to play. The venue created the problem by not properly handle registration.

A trained monkey could fly a phantom/deci combo into the final round of a store championship. I know this because the phantom/deci got me my plaque and I fly worse than a trained monkey most of the time. although i wouldn't call it super OP, rear admiral with engine upgrade and predator is super forgiving of mistakes. you can maneuver badly all day and just boost yourself into a better position every round or crash into whoever you want. Predator mixed with his crit focus lets you still hit like a brick to the head. Throw in isard and who needs actions?

although i wouldn't call it super OP, rear admiral with engine upgrade and predator is super forgiving of mistakes. you can maneuver badly all day and just boost yourself into a better position every round or crash into whoever you want.

Engine upgrade doesn't help you run into anything. You can't boost to overlap. If someone is playing a maneuverable build and they are letting you steamroll over them with just engine upgrade, it just means you outmaneuvered them.

I was surprised we had less people this year than last year.

Ii know you cant boost into people, I just meant "oops, I flew out too fast and ran into your ships, now I don't get an action" *gets free evade, gets free reroll of attack dice, gets free mini focus, Laughs like a monkey*. Also, clipping asteroids with your template if you don't quite get the maneuver right and things of that sort that on other ships would be killer, on this one are at most minor annoyances. things like that. I just feel that if you are running over asteroids, accidently bumping all the time, or not guessing correctly trying to get into dashes donut hole, you maybe shouldn't get to hit so freaking hard. that should be the trade off. if you make a mistake, use engine upgrade to correct it, but then your attack roll is subject to being crap with no mods.

I'm surprised at the diversity of lists present. Maybe it's a little bit of selection bias, but it really seems like the metagame has really opened up.

I'm surprised at the diversity of lists present. Maybe it's a little bit of selection bias, but it really seems like the metagame has really opened up.

To be fair, the Store Championships are going to be more diverse, becuase it will be smaller groups (though there are large ones) and more localized metas. This lets diversity show up. Personally, it is a better snapshot of the game as a whole, since tier 1.5 stuff gets representation that they wouldn't likely to get in the higher level tournaments.

A trained monkey could fly a phantom/deci combo into the final round of a store championship. I know this because the phantom/deci got me my plaque and I fly worse than a trained monkey most of the time. although i wouldn't call it super OP, rear admiral with engine upgrade and predator is super forgiving of mistakes. you can maneuver badly all day and just boost yourself into a better position every round or crash into whoever you want. Predator mixed with his crit focus lets you still hit like a brick to the head. Throw in isard and who needs actions?

What does this say about the caliber of people you are playing against?

Well, a lot of them are game testers who have been playing wave 5 since probably a good half a year or more before it showed up at Gencon. Not saying they are all world champs, but they are not trash either. There are a lot of very good players here in FFGs backyard.

Well, a lot of them are game testers who have been playing wave 5 since probably a good half a year or more before it showed up at Gencon. Not saying they are all world champs, but they are not trash either. There are a lot of very good players here in FFGs backyard.

Then give yourself credit and say that you won and earned it. If I lost I wouldn't want the person who won to just be like oh it was only my list that beat you, no matter your skills as a player there was nothing you could have done.

Perhaps you are right, maybe I flew really well. All I really know is that it felt like every time I knew I made a mistake, it never felt like I paid for it like I'm used to when I run my normal lists. maybe just because my normal lists are regular ties that blow up when you look at them wrong >.<

Ii know you cant boost into people, I just meant "oops, I flew out too fast and ran into your ships, now I don't get an action" *gets free evade, gets free reroll of attack dice, gets free mini focus, Laughs like a monkey*. Also, clipping asteroids with your template if you don't quite get the maneuver right and things of that sort that on other ships would be killer, on this one are at most minor annoyances. things like that. I just feel that if you are running over asteroids, accidently bumping all the time, or not guessing correctly trying to get into dashes donut hole, you maybe shouldn't get to hit so freaking hard. that should be the trade off. if you make a mistake, use engine upgrade to correct it, but then your attack roll is subject to being crap with no mods.

But you are penalized, in a way most ships aren't: you paid at least 57 points for a single attack each round. That's the cost of two nicely upgraded B-wings, or a Howlrunner-led mini-swarm. That's a really extreme level of inefficiency.

You have a lot of hit points, and advantages over most ships in the action economy. You can also lose those 57 points in as few as two rounds of concentrated fire, so you have to be careful or good or both to minimize the number of guns on you in a given round.

At my store champs of over 30 people I was the only top 8 not flying a turreted large ship, and somewhere in the region of 70%+ of people attending were using one, with at least 6 double-turret ship lists, be it 2x Decis or Falcons/Outriders.

Turrets... turrets everywhere...

On the plus side, it gives me a moral victory for not running one, and it's the last hurrah before all the double IG-88 spam comes out and bores us to tears.

Everyone thought PTL Dash would dominate the metagame, even Juggler. It didn't.

I'm not sure that I thought it would outright dominate the meta, but certainly 58 Dash is really really good against ships below PS7. It's one of those ships that is really good in certain circumstances, but has some hard counters in others. Unfortunately for Dash, PS8+ seems to have picked up even more steam since wave 5. That probably won't really change until and unless the Phantom gets nerfed somehow, because the most effective way to counter it is still to outbid its PS. PS9 insanity might even get worse once SuperFel and ATC Vader are in the mix.

But yeah, the near complete lack of Dash is a little surprising. I think it just goes to show that tournament results strongly favor consistency.

i cannot understand the relative lack of swarms given how they utterly dominate falcons and decis

What surprised me the most?

... That people actually care about/pay attention to the meta, inevitably copying (or at least being influenced by) the meta and thus making it a self fulfilling prophesy.

The benefit?

... A more competitive list (or at least one more like everyone else's list and thus more predictable).

The cost?

... Creativity... ingenuity... unpredictability... FUN.

i cannot understand the relative lack of swarms given how they utterly dominate falcons and decis

Phantoms scared them off. I have seen some SC results where the swarm has done very well, but there's also a correlation to how many Phantoms showed up too.

What surprised me the most?

... That people actually care about/pay attention to the meta, inevitably copying (or at least being influenced by) the meta and thus making it a self fulfilling prophesy.

The benefit?

... A more competitive list (or at least one more like everyone else's list and thus more predictable).

The cost?

... Creativity... ingenuity... unpredictability... FUN.

I don't see how this could be surprising, considering it is the fate of every competitive game ever

The amount of variety varies depending on the quality of the releases at the time, but there will always be net lists.

Wave 5 is just particularly toxic because primary turrets are easy to build squads around and easier to wield, being not only the easiest/most forgiving ships to fly but also only requiring a single wing-mate to be incredibly effective--which makes the squad as a whole even easier to pilot

It makes sense that they're so popular, being the shortest route to victory and all, but you're right that it doesn't do much for entertainment

i cannot understand the relative lack of swarms given how they utterly dominate falcons and decis

Phantoms scared them off. I have seen some SC results where the swarm has done very well, but there's also a correlation to how many Phantoms showed up too.

And, by contrast, swarms are freaking difficult to play

Managing 7 or 8 ships is a **** challenge no matter what you're flying against, and mentally taxing without lots and lots of practice.

Not to mention there's little more discouraging than watching Ties go pop to bad dice.

A trained monkey could fly a phantom/deci combo into the final round of a store championship.

TIL I'm worse than a trained monkey at this game.

A trained monkey could fly a phantom/deci combo into the final round of a store championship.

TIL I'm worse than a trained monkey at this game.

Lest we forget, those monkeys have been trained

experience trumps everything

Well, a lot of them are game testers who have been playing wave 5 since probably a good half a year or more before it showed up at Gencon. Not saying they are all world champs, but they are not trash either. There are a lot of very good players here in FFGs backyard.

Then give yourself credit and say that you won and earned it. If I lost I wouldn't want the person who won to just be like oh it was only my list that beat you, no matter your skills as a player there was nothing you could have done.

This is what I do when I stack 8 target locks on someone's decimator. As long as everyone in my area is running turret stuff, I'm running a swarm.