So I finally broke down about a week ago and built my first Lanny LCG deck, primarily with the purpose of proving it is not "far and away better" than the other houses like some have claimed on this board.

So what I found disturbed me. The deck has dominated. It has lost twice, but both losses were in the first 5 games it played, and were due to bad location draws while playing against a Winter deck. After a few modifications (adding Weaponsmiths) and some familiarity while playing it, it hasn't lost since. Not only has it not lost, it hasn't really had a close game.

Thus first, I offer a retraction. In some of the other threads I stated that while I thought Lannister was the best house, I didn't think it was as dominant as some had stated. I retract that and say that I now think that it is not only best, it is clearly head and shoulders above the rest. Prior to building the deck myself, I had played fairly evenly with my Targ deck against Kennon's Lanny. But things have changed.

Second, I will say this. I think there are really two primary cards that create this significant increase in power level: Castellan of the Rock and Golden Tooth Mines. As an opponent to Lannister, if you can find a way to immediately and repeatedly remove these cards from the table, you will probably find your road to having an even battle against Lannister.

Third, I just can't see myself playing Lannister at Gencon. I'm too much of a contrarion. So now I'm off to make my deck that I think can somehow hold its own against the wealth of Lannister LCG decks I expect to see.

Dobbler said:

Assuming the expansion set DOES hit the shelf in July, I actually expect to see more GJ than Lanni. Of course, I'm also thinking that we're looking at a field of 20, tops, so House breakdown may be a little hard to gauge.

ktom said:

There are 6 coming from our meta alone. Perhaps one more might play. 20 seems like a low figure. That would mean only 14 others outside our meta come. I'm guessing closer to mid 30s.

attachments help a ton in LCG. Bear island (if seen) and castellan of the rock are both signifigantly limited by attachments. Add lannis good cards w/ compelled by the rock, the easiest and best attachment control right now, and then you can reall ysee why lanni is so easy to build for right now.

Lannister's narrow focus and extremely efficient cards are just too much for most decks to handle. That said I still think that Targaryen is just under Lannister, and the right build can effectively stop Lannister dead in its tracks, again because they gain power so slowly. I've found that opposing as many challenges as I can puts Lannister in a difficult position to gain power. I know the common wisdom is that if you can afford to let it go UO do so because it frees up an attacker of your own, but Lannister has no in-House renown and limited high strength power icons. If you can defend their challenges and win military on defense and offense you can do a very good job of waiting them out.

Which goes hand in hand with my other observation, Lannister is kind of the midgame. Pretty much impossible to win in the opening gambit, and after plot 6 they start running short on kneel effects barring the Castellan and Lannisport Brothel, Lannister really hits it stride in plots 4-6. If my opponent can rush well or out last me I'm in a tough position. Thankfully the vast amount of draw and gold pretty much let me see a pretty good sampling of my deck giving me more choices than my opponent.

Targ's ability to just keep tossing attachments around forcing me to over commit my forces to win a challenge and their ability to bring characters back into play I thought I had gotten rid of is a real problem. If I can't win in 6 plots my chances of winning drop dramaticly. Bara's ability to keep standing and grab power forces me to use a lot fo my character control right up front. A few large armies really hurts my chances of dominating the mid game as much as I'd like if I can resist the rush... thankfully few rush decks carry the more expensive Armies.

Actually, the KLE packs have seriously given my Stark deck a couple pieces it needed to compete. I've now thoroughly wiped the floor with the best Lannister decks a couple games in a row. It's got versatile standing/anti-kneeling tech that doesn't get wasted even if not playing Lannister, and has the best high claim/targetted kill in LCG. Has decent card search that makes up for the lack of great draw, and very rarely actually has a bad drop to start.

I'll try to get around to posting a decklist sometime soon.

Dobbler said:

I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

I think the shadow mechanic will do a few interesting things:

1. It splits the cost... this can allow you to sort of prepay for something next turn... and

2. Shadow cards are untouchable... once played they can't be intrigued out.. allowing you to store some cards for later

without worrying about the intrigue challenge.

3. Having unknowns come in the challenges phase or even dominance... or even epic battle phase.... causes more headaches for marshalling phase control. If there was more influence in the environment... I think people would complain about Targ not Lanni.

bloodycelt said:

for now. i can't see their being no answer (~other then balon) to shadow crests

Lars said:

Though not particularly reliable for taking out specific cards. City Watch is anti-Shadows of a sort, too.

Even if there is an answer it will be in card form rather than mechanic form which inherently weakens it in comparison. You have a lot of cards that force a discard from hand as well as the intrigue challenge with the possibility of multiple challenges and high claim. For Shadows, you might have what three or four cards at most that rid a card from Shadows? A character, an event, a location, and maybe some sort of weapon attachment? I'd be surprised if we saw one of each, but I could see events and characters with some sort of discard effect for Shadows, but even if we saw one of each all non-unique and neutral, your cards would still be safer in Shadows than in your hand.

True, to a certain extent. I see location destruction as a viable limiter to Shadows, too. If I go after your gold, the card may be safer in Shadows from being discarded, but that doesn't mean it's going to come into play exactly when you want it to, either. Sure, you split the cost, but you can't bring it home if you can't make the final lay-away payment.

Very true, and precisely how I explain Shadows. It is a card on layaway... but yes if you suddenly find yourself short on cash that card just sits there.

I'm curious though in actuality how often that is going to be a factor. A choice between attacking someone's gold base with a card or two in Shadows or those problematic power locations... I think that is going to be a hard choice... which means I like it.

Well, you know one guy that will be playing Lanni

I am seriously scared of Stark (first turn can just go ballistic) and Targ (if you let them hang around, they can just go crazy with good attachments)...but a little less so now that there is viable location control.

Should be interesting, as always!

I would imagine shadows control... will be more like Tyrion and Catelyn, you give your opponent advantage by having it in there.

rings said:

Yeah, a first turn 3 claim military challenge can be brutal. If Bear Island hits the table next round there is a world of hurt in store for you. I've faced a deck where this happens with scary frequency.

Just curious, which events do people play in their LCG Lanni decks? Do you run more kneel, revenge, or location discard? (I assume people play the 3x draw event and at least 2x I'm You Writ Small...and I'd be interested to hear if some people think these are not worth running.)

Separately, what cards/mechanics do people use for draw in Stark? (I've been wanting to build a competitive stark deck, but I'm finding the draw engine aspect very difficult!)

always i'm you writ small. usually debts. more so lately compelled by the rock. Devious and wrong dwarf are cards that i want to squeeze in, but since there are other ways of doing the things they do they usually get cut.

I retract my retraction.

Dobbler said:

:-P

Dobbler said:

LOL

this was in the back of my head when i saw dobbler's post earlier. ~greg atkinson: the john kerry of AGoT.

It should be pointed out that my original retraction was posted on June 30th, before Kings of the Sea or the 3rd chapter pack in the KLE cycle was released. This changed alot over the last month.

Last month? Don't you mean 10 weeks? Or is it really only 1 month in game terms b/c of release schedules around GenCon?

Maester_LUke said:

Sorry, I meant since June 30th. Not only am I like John Kerry as finite mentioned, but apparently I am like Herm Edwards with my apparent clock mismanagement.