Does this work?

Change a 1 or 2 manouevre so that it becomes red, then the R2 unit makes it green.

I don't see a problem.

There is a rule somewhere, can't find it at the moment, that says if one effect makes a maneuver easier and another effect makes it more difficult, more difficult wins.

I don't see how that makes sense.

These are two separate effects: one makes the move red. That's fine.

The other makes a red move green.

Not sure how that principle applies here and if it does what's the point of the Astromech?

Well, there's this one from the FAQ page 17:

Q: If two or more game effects that change the difficulty of a
maneuver conflict, which effect takes priority?

A: An effect that increases the difficulty of a maneuver takes priority over an
effect that decreases the difficulty. For example, if a ship equipped with
R2 Astromech is dealt the Damaged Engine Damage card, all of the ship’s
turn maneuvers are treated as red maneuvers, including the 1-speed and
2-speed turn maneuvers.

The R2 Astromech has loads of uses outside of just the fairly recently released Stay on Target.

I don't see how that makes sense.

These are two separate effects: one makes the move red. That's fine.

The other makes a red move green.

Not sure how that principle applies here and if it does what's the point of the Astromech?

Making all 1 and 2 speed maneuvers green alone is a pretty solid benefit for 1 point. X-wings can bank and turn 2 to clear stress, Y-wings can do similarly, E-wings get 2 turns and 1 banks green, just for the most straightforward applications. The bottom line is it makes you vastly less predictable coming out of a K-turn, or after you Push the Limit/Experimental Interface, or getting stuck with stress from Rebel Captive or Tactician.

There is the side case of being Ionized and Stressed at the same time. R2 Astromech changes the 1 forward white maneuver from the Ion token green, so the stress is still cleared. How is that case different from Stay on Target, you might ask? Because the Ion token doesn't make your maneuver worse; it directly instructs you to make a 1-forward white. So there is no negative effect to cancel out R2 Astromech, meaning it kicks in.

If R2 Astromech did actually work with Stay on Target that'd be a little broken...or maybe not. A similar effect isn't that strong on Keyan.

Gotta agree with Otacon. The dial on a Y-wing is pretty slim on green, so by adding an R2, you've just managed to make it much more versatile when fighting in a stressful game.

Well, there's this one from the FAQ page 17:

Q: If two or more game effects that change the difficulty of a

maneuver conflict, which effect takes priority?

A: An effect that increases the difficulty of a maneuver takes priority over an

effect that decreases the difficulty. For example, if a ship equipped with

R2 Astromech is dealt the Damaged Engine Damage card, all of the ship’s

turn maneuvers are treated as red maneuvers, including the 1-speed and

2-speed turn maneuvers.

The R2 Astromech has loads of uses outside of just the fairly recently released Stay on Target.

Hang on, if the ruling is that the more difficult effect persists then R2 Astromech cannot deal with the Damaged Engine card. It's exactly the same effect as Stay On Target in making a move a red move.

Well, there's this one from the FAQ page 17:

Q: If two or more game effects that change the difficulty of a

maneuver conflict, which effect takes priority?

A: An effect that increases the difficulty of a maneuver takes priority over an

effect that decreases the difficulty. For example, if a ship equipped with

R2 Astromech is dealt the Damaged Engine Damage card, all of the ship’s

turn maneuvers are treated as red maneuvers, including the 1-speed and

2-speed turn maneuvers.

The R2 Astromech has loads of uses outside of just the fairly recently released Stay on Target.

Hang on, if the ruling is that the more difficult effect persists then R2 Astromech cannot deal with the Damaged Engine card. It's exactly the same effect as Stay On Target in making a move a red move.

Yes, that is what you quoted, yes.

And further, in the FAQ under Stay on Target (FAQ page 16):

Stay on Target

Even if the chosen maneuver is changed by an ability such as Navigator, the maneuver that the ship executes is always a red maneuver

piss poor game design.

That makes the Astromech utterly useless.

What is the definition of difficulty, in regard to a manoeuvre? Navigator is an entirely different proposition than R2 Astromech.

It's not piss poor game design. What kind of game design would it be if you could change your maneuver on a whim and have it be a green maneuver to boot, all at the cost of 3 points? That would be extremely unbalanced, so I would argue that it's good game design. Calling the astromech useless is a very strong statement. It isn't used too often, but as a 1-pointer it's really not supposed to be incredibly useful. It's more of a nice thing to have on an ace X-Wing pilot with PtL (like Wedge) to give the player more flexibility when choosing maneuvers. That makes it easier to chase down targets while still getting in target-locked and focused shots every turn. I've also found it to be pretty useful on ace E-Wings that have PtL for the same reason. It brings them closer to having the dial of an A-wing with the strength of an X-wing.

There's no hard-fast definition stated anywhere by FFG, but I believe it's generally understood that if a card effect makes a maneuver red then it stays red. It's consistent with everything as far as I can think of.

By the same token, what kind of game design allows Keyan Farlander to gain stress for a second action for 3 points which he can then spend at no cost even without focus icons present to work with?

The Astromech is useless if this sort of ability can't work. Since you are requiring and sacrificing an upgrade slot for him to convert the move (and only 1/2 speed moves) it's far from broken.

This is a very sloppy way to rule and a lazy way to design. Why should I be penalised for thinking of what is far from a broken combo? Compared to things such as the Mangler Cannon or even the Accuracy Correcter which guarantees at least 2 hits every attack this is far from broken.

Ruling in a way that penalises creative list building and makes a given card useless is bad all round. I suppose we could all just end up playing Soontir Fel + pTl in a stagnant game environment.

You could ask the same question of Garven Dreis. Do you think that's "piss poor" game design too? And it's not useless. It's why it's a 1 point cost card. It's a useful filler and works particularly well in combination with cards like push the limit and experimental interface, or in countering stress builds. I'm sure a number of other users on these forums would see balance issues if R2 Astromech converted stay on target reds. Have you done the playtesting that FFG did to come to the conclusion of how this should work? I don't think so.

It doesn't penalize creative list building, it creates boundaries necessary for balance. And I have no idea what Soontir Fel has to do with any of this.

If you don't like the game don't play it, otherwise quit complaining and work within the rule space provided.

Anything you disagree with is piss poor game design. Good to know.

Since the game is so piss poor designed by the lazy developers, please stop playing it for all our benefits.

If you like this style of game, I can suggest WizzKids Star Trek: Attack Wing, or thier more recently released Dungeons and Dragons: Attack Wing.

piss poor game design.

That makes the Astromech utterly useless.

What is the definition of difficulty, in regard to a manoeuvre? Navigator is an entirely different proposition than R2 Astromech.

It's not bad design. The droid isn't useless; it's uses were just pointed put.

Difficulty is color, with green being easiest and red being hardest. Deal with it; it's how the game works.

One that understands that, although he has a lot of offensive power, he has no more durability than your average Blue Squadron Pilot but is at least 10 points more expensive. All the opposing player needs to do is point his or her guns in Keyan's general direction and shoot him until he blows up.

I use the R2 Astro with a fairly regular frequency. As many have noted already, it's a great filler card and really enhances the options for any X/Y/E-Wing build. I never worry about stress when I'm using it. I'm very much planning on using it even more once I have my S&V add-ons to make my Ys into awesome dogfighters.

piss poor game design.

That makes the Astromech utterly useless.

What is the definition of difficulty, in regard to a manoeuvre? Navigator is an entirely different proposition than R2 Astromech.

It may not work in the way you want it to work, but that doesn't make it useless. It's an upgrade that's been around since Wave 1, and I think it may be the best 1 point upgrade in the game.

Xwings can K Turn and have 2 turns and banks that will be green and relieve stress.

Ships can shoot at RebelCaptive, be dealt a stress from a Tactitian or R3A2, or be shot at by a flèchette, and have a very open dial to maintain the fight and still keep getting their actions.

It will make an ion 1 straight maneuver green. That is incredible when your ship happens to be stressed and ironed. It will still shed a stress when doing an ion move.

A Ywing (whose expansion R2 Astromech comes in) goes from having only 1 and 2 straight moves green to having 6 additional options to shed stress.

Take your blinders off and don't get fixated on the fact that it cannot do 1 thing, and instead pay attention to the many benefits that it does have. It is arguably the easiest 1 point spent in this game.

It may not work in the way you want it to work, but that doesn't make it useless. It's an upgrade that's been around since Wave 1, and I think it may be the best 1 point upgrade in the game.

Xwings can K Turn and have 2 turns and banks that will be green and relieve stress.

Ships can shoot at RebelCaptive, be dealt a stress from a Tactitian or R3A2, or be shot at by a flèchette, and have a very open dial to maintain the fight and still keep getting their actions.

It will make an ion 1 straight maneuver green. That is incredible when your ship happens to be stressed and ironed. It will still shed a stress when doing an ion move.

A Ywing (whose expansion R2 Astromech comes in) goes from having only 1 and 2 straight moves green to having 6 additional options to shed stress.

Take your blinders off and don't get fixated on the fact that it cannot do 1 thing, and instead pay attention to the many benefits that it does have. It is arguably the easiest 1 point spent in this game.

I don't see it making an Ion move green for the same reason. The effect is to give you a white move, that's harder than the green you get from R2 which means R2 is again useless. Two effects in collision again. So the same principle must occur.

The point isn't about blinders it's about allowing creativity and consistency. Why is it ok that Keyan can remove stress without eyeball results, allowing him to gain stress with no consequence, but R2 crosses the line? That makes no sense.

What you end up with is a stagnant gaming environment based on wonky rule judgements. There is already (pre S/V) a lack of variety in this game as it is because there are just better choices to make for most lists. Why wouldn't you give Keyan PtL for example? He gets two actions and as a result a free stress token that gives him the ability to boost his chances of hitting. But R2 is broken if paired with Stay on Target?

Sure you can put an R2 on a y wing, but again why would you bother with a y wing as a rebel when there are just better choices to make? (Why do you think S/V has Y wings?)

The reason why it takes effect is because it's not making a maneuver more difficult, that's just the maneuver you're doing. Stay on target says that meneuever becomes a red maneuever, meaning that it is altering the difficulty of it. Ion effects simply state do a white one forward, which isn't changing the difficulty of any maneuver but is simply the maneuver you're being told to do. That was covered in an above post.

Secondly you can't compare your gripes with Keyan and R2 Astromech. They are completely different cards and it is nonsensical to compare the two. At this point you're just whining about things that you don't like so get over it. You're coming off as a troll. If you want somewhere to whine and complain about things go elsewhere. And I actually don't like giving Keyan PtL. I prefer stay on target with advanced sensors. More mobility and still getting target locked and focused attacks each turn. If you're complaining about a lack of variety in builds then why the hell are you arguing for the expanded effect of R2 astro? Then that makes stay on target an auto-include on many ace pilots and would actually validate the sky is falling threads that started when that card was spoiled.

And I fail to see what point you're even attempting to make with your last paragraph. Y-wings need a fix, people have been asking for one for over a year now. They're getting one with scum & villainy.

It may not work in the way you want it to work, but that doesn't make it useless. It's an upgrade that's been around since Wave 1, and I think it may be the best 1 point upgrade in the game.

Xwings can K Turn and have 2 turns and banks that will be green and relieve stress.

Ships can shoot at RebelCaptive, be dealt a stress from a Tactitian or R3A2, or be shot at by a flèchette, and have a very open dial to maintain the fight and still keep getting their actions.

It will make an ion 1 straight maneuver green. That is incredible when your ship happens to be stressed and ironed. It will still shed a stress when doing an ion move.

A Ywing (whose expansion R2 Astromech comes in) goes from having only 1 and 2 straight moves green to having 6 additional options to shed stress.

Take your blinders off and don't get fixated on the fact that it cannot do 1 thing, and instead pay attention to the many benefits that it does have. It is arguably the easiest 1 point spent in this game.

I don't see it making an Ion move green for the same reason. The effect is to give you a white move, that's harder than the green you get from R2 which means R2 is again useless. Two effects in collision again. So the same principle must occur.

The point isn't about blinders it's about allowing creativity and consistency. Why is it ok that Keyan can remove stress without eyeball results, allowing him to gain stress with no consequence, but R2 crosses the line? That makes no sense.

What you end up with is a stagnant gaming environment based on wonky rule judgements. There is already (pre S/V) a lack of variety in this game as it is because there are just better choices to make for most lists. Why wouldn't you give Keyan PtL for example? He gets two actions and as a result a free stress token that gives him the ability to boost his chances of hitting. But R2 is broken if paired with Stay on Target?

Sure you can put an R2 on a y wing, but again why would you bother with a y wing as a rebel when there are just better choices to make? (Why do you think S/V has Y wings?)

Ok then. Your mind is made up and there is really not much more to say. I hope you can get past your disappointment with R2 and find a combination of cards you will enjoy.

The reason why it takes effect is because it's not making a maneuver more difficult, that's just the maneuver you're doing.

Exactly.

It's a fairly common mistake, people seem to think of the 1 straight as being a green maneuver that's been changed to white. But this is not true. It's a 1 straight white maneuver, and as such is subject to R2 Astro.

It's another case of doing what the card tells you to do, and not doing what it doesn't tell you to do.

Secondly you can't compare your gripes with Keyan and R2 Astromech.

That's fairly typical for him, he can't seem to post without whining about something or another.

And I fail to see what point you're even attempting to make with your last paragraph.

Again more whining. The Y-Wing is a great ship when used properly, if someone thinks it's worthless they just don't know how to fly it. That's not to say it can't use a buff, but there's a fairly meaningful distance between unusable and in need of a buff.

It's hilarious to complain about a lack of consistency, when the rules intpretations that signofserpants is advocating would be terribly inconsistent. With both the wording of the abilities and similarly worded abilities. All of this from a poster that is showing, repeatedly, that he is terribly unaware and out of touch with how the rules of this game work.

I come back from vacation, and wonder how this question could make it to two pages... I should have stayed on vacation.

Sheesh.

Always stay on vacation.