OK, I am well aware I can hand wave this, but I just wanted to see what others opinions are...

As we all know, there are various models of Astromech Droids...

The usual Dome headed R2 series (Like ol Artoo)

The R3 series, similar in appearance to the R2s

The R4 series Agromech (Less space orientated, and more rugged, with a conical head)

The R5, a cheaper budget model, that turned out to be abit of a bust.

I'll stop there, as the R6 and beyond seem to come in after the time setting of EotE. While all the above have been in service since the Clone Wars and before (Yes, im using Legends here)

Now clearly, the look of a droid is not a fixed thing?

Wookieepedia lists R5-D4 (Red from ANH), as an R2 unit. Yet looks exactly like an R5 series droid. In fact, when you look at the R5 page,... the image they use is of, R5-D4... an R2 unit.

Now yes, I know, I can simply ignore this, im just looking for ideas and opinions on how you all got past this particular inconsistency (As it irks me, as many things do when they dont seem to following their own rules!).

Part of why I ask, is in Trouble Brewing, the group will meet R4-W9. And I have on player who will automatically assume its an R4 unit (Nice and fairly new model). But by the sounds of it, it could be a much older R2 unit.... regardless of its designation.(Additionally, the R4 was designed less for space use and more Agriculture type use (I guess?) and R4-W9 is clearly used as a navigational droid)

So how do you wrap your heads around this particular inconsistency of the universe?

Cheers

???? The page I looked at says he is a R5 series astromech.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/R5-D4

I have not read or ran trouble brewing, but perhaps this R4 droid was an older R2 at one point, but the body may have been damaged, but the his computer core/brain was undamaged, and put into a R4 body. So in effect, he is still an R2, just with a new skin job so to speak.

In the quote from ANH Luke does says "This R2 unit has a..."

I think R2 is a generic term for most astromechs. In certain parts of America all soda pop beverages are "Coke". You ask for a coke, then they ask what kind, Pepsi, Mt. Dew etc. Then we also have the term "pop" up north, and "Soda" mainly down south and west.

Wow, it feels like I am talking about the Kardashians here....

???? The page I looked at says he is a R5 series astromech.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/R5-D4

I have not read or ran trouble brewing, but perhaps this R4 droid was an older R2 at one point, but the body may have been damaged, but the his computer core/brain was undamaged, and put into a R4 body. So in effect, he is still an R2, just with a new skin job so to speak.

My Bad, I was looking at the Canon page, I couldnt remember the droids designation, so I had to hunt through the ANH page for the reference.

Seems it has 2 pages now. Canon, hes an R2, Legends hes R5.

Either way, my questions remain

Honestly I think the difference was largely an EU thing anyway. I really get the feeling that George saw all astromechs as largely the samesame.

I recently converted an old d6 campaign that calls out different r2 and 3 models. In that system the difference in r series models was clear. In the conversion process I found there really isn't that big of a difference. Until the stats for the r7 came out I actually assumed there wasn't a difference at all...

I had similar issues when I was trying to name a droid for my campaign. I recalled something about naming conventions so I looked it up in EotE under Droids and they talk about droid classifications, e.g. Class 2 as Astromechs and such, Class 3 as being able to do human relations, Class 4 as being unable to do really do such advanced interaction (I'm guessing things like that battle droid we see in TCW that is basically a giant walking barrel with guns) and Class 5 being pretty much animal-level, like those little whizzy things in Ep.IV that are scared of Chewbacca.

I had thought that class was part of their name. E.g. C3-P0 is "C3" so Class 3, R2-D2 is "R2" so Class 2. So R4-D4 would be far less sophisticated than R2-D2. But this seems to have been thrown out or else I misunderstood. Stay on Target has R7 astromech droids as a newer and more advanced model. So I'm really not sure how to go about naming droids, tbh. I've generally been naming Protocol droids C3-something and Astromech droids R2- or R4-something. Where the B1 battle droids from TCW series fit in, I have no idea. :/

The Droids Class has nothing to do with their names.

Class is simply how advanced a droid is, the lower the number the more 'intelligent' they are.

Power droids would be a Class 5 for example, as all they do is walk and power stuff.

While a Protocol Droid is capable to communication with millions of languages, and knows the ettiquette, and hold a conversation, Astromechs can diagnose and repair complex equipment, including other droids.

The name is entirely different, the confusion comes where some might think ALL R2 Series Astros are R2-Something, since the Series name has become synonymous with R2-D2. Which limits the number of designations you can have, unless you go for something like R2-F523H.

Part of the reason I asked the original question

From Cynabar's Fantastic Technology: Droids

...Droid names are generally made up of numbers and letters (C-3P0, FX-7, EV-99, and so forth). These designations are not unlike serial numbers, and they often include the droid's model number as well as defining characters that separate the droid from others of its class.

Most droid names include the unit's model number; R2-D2 is an Industrial Automaton R2 astromech unit. Most other R2 units have the characters "R2" somewhere in their names as well, though they are not always pronounced. There are some companies that use words or symbols as a model designation, though these cases are rare (the Verpine Siak-series is one such example). Often, owners will spell out the droid's designation phonetically, giving the droid a more "organic" name ("MD-18" becomes "Emdee-Oneight," for example). Other owners have ignored the droid's name altogether, opting for a nickname of some sort. "Whistler" and "Mynock" from Michael Stackpole's X-Wing novels are examples of this.

When choosing a name for your droid, take these things into account. There is no limit to the number of digits in a droid's designation; there could very well be a 3PO unit with a designation of Q32H-3PO-9ST somewhere in the galaxy. Usually, organics shorten longer names for ease of reference (so the example above could simply be referred to as "Kyu-three" or "Ohnine").

So R5-D4 could be an R2 unit just with the "R5" in his designation... Though the fact he looks like an R5 kills that for me... It's workable.

So how do you wrap your heads around this particular inconsistency of the universe?

Discard it and replace it with whatever you personally believe is consistent for you.

For example, the "R1", that large black droid outside the Jawa sandcrawler was made into the direct predecessor to R2. Huh? It's huge. It has a large barrel sticking out of it's head that (imho) was more obviously a weapon. So for me, that's not an R1 Astromech droid but an ancient security droid intended for space stations or large capital ships. For me, that allows R1 to be the ancient astromech design older then R2 which Chopper was an example of (instead of C1, an entirely new series of astromech we've never seen before).

Yeah, thats kind the point of my original question

If ALL R2 series droids followed the same naming convention, or R2-Letter Digit. you would run out of choices at 260. And im sure they made more than that.... if you go R2-Digit Number Number, thats still only 2600 unique numbers.

So designations must either get repeated, or you have to throw in RX-XXX regardless of their model.

Which is **** confusing. And I was wondering how people got round this one.

(And even if you do that above, and follow at most an XX-XXX format, thats still only 67600 unique designations for ALL IA Astros ever made)

The Droids Class has nothing to do with their names.

Class is simply how advanced a droid is, the lower the number the more 'intelligent' they are.

Power droids would be a Class 5 for example, as all they do is walk and power stuff.

While a Protocol Droid is capable to communication with millions of languages, and knows the ettiquette, and hold a conversation, Astromechs can diagnose and repair complex equipment, including other droids.

The name is entirely different, the confusion comes where some might think ALL R2 Series Astros are R2-Something, since the Series name has become synonymous with R2-D2. Which limits the number of designations you can have, unless you go for something like R2-F523H.

Part of the reason I asked the original question

Actually, you do indeed "go for something like R2-F523H". In TCW arc where 5's (a clone trooper) is on the run having uncovered Order #66 prematurely, he teams up with a droid he keeps calling AZ-3 who's actual name we are told is AZ-345211896246498721347. The droid also protests at the abbreviation lamenting how organics never bother with a droid's full name.

And I disagree that the name has nothing to do with the model / type. We routinely see astromech droids named "R-" something, and I'm pretty sure there were other protocol droids with a C3- designation. There's clearly a relationship.

EDIT: What DigitalChicanery said. Most likely the model is routinely part of a droid's name, and most likely organics shorten the name to something they can actually use. And as the model number is probably near the start of most droid's names, they often have similar names. This neatly resolves the paradox of model names seeming to conform but (a) having strange exceptions and (b) having duplicate names (which bothers RebelDave so much). There probably is another R2-D2 out there somewhere. It's just that one is R2-D2-98238-23892 and the other is his brother R2-D2-98238-23894. Even if there are only 70,000 combinations, what are the chances the droid you've just bought and choose an organic-friendly name for will be working alongside another with the same name. And when they do? Just up a number or something. Maybe R4-D4 is actually R2-D4, but they already had two so they name the last two they bought R3-D4 and R4-D4 to avoid confusion. Which is probably why astromech droids are so tetchy.

A droid desingation is probably a lot longer, including sub-serial numbers for location of manufacturer, year, model & option designations, and a QA technician number. THink about how complicated firearms markings were in the late-19th century. I think it would be normal to drop several digits off a full serial number for the sake of brevity (and sanity).

Also, the more numbers and letters, the harder it is to be witty with the name.

A little spoiler info from the game.

The Droids Class has nothing to do with their names.

Class is simply how advanced a droid is, the lower the number the more 'intelligent' they are.

Power droids would be a Class 5 for example, as all they do is walk and power stuff.

While a Protocol Droid is capable to communication with millions of languages, and knows the ettiquette, and hold a conversation, Astromechs can diagnose and repair complex equipment, including other droids.

The name is entirely different, the confusion comes where some might think ALL R2 Series Astros are R2-Something, since the Series name has become synonymous with R2-D2. Which limits the number of designations you can have, unless you go for something like R2-F523H.

Part of the reason I asked the original question

Actually, you do indeed "go for something like R2-F523H". In TCW arc where 5's (a clone trooper) is on the run having uncovered Order #66 prematurely, he teams up with a droid he keeps calling AZ-3 who's actual name we are told is AZ-345211896246498721347. The droid also protests at the abbreviation lamenting how organics never bother with a droid's full name.

And I disagree that the name has nothing to do with the model / type. We routinely see astromech droids named "R-" something, and I'm pretty sure there were other protocol droids with a C3- designation. There's clearly a relationship.

Good answer very helpful,

And I didnt quite mean that Name has nothing to do with model, I think I wasnt clear there. I would certainly say any R series astro would be R(Whatever their series)-Unique identifying number.

What gets me is that in some cases, the RNumber doesnt always align with their actual model.

The Droids Class has nothing to do with their names.

Class is simply how advanced a droid is, the lower the number the more 'intelligent' they are.

Power droids would be a Class 5 for example, as all they do is walk and power stuff.

While a Protocol Droid is capable to communication with millions of languages, and knows the ettiquette, and hold a conversation, Astromechs can diagnose and repair complex equipment, including other droids.

The name is entirely different, the confusion comes where some might think ALL R2 Series Astros are R2-Something, since the Series name has become synonymous with R2-D2. Which limits the number of designations you can have, unless you go for something like R2-F523H.

Part of the reason I asked the original question

Actually, you do indeed "go for something like R2-F523H". In TCW arc where 5's (a clone trooper) is on the run having uncovered Order #66 prematurely, he teams up with a droid he keeps calling AZ-3 who's actual name we are told is AZ-345211896246498721347. The droid also protests at the abbreviation lamenting how organics never bother with a droid's full name.

And I disagree that the name has nothing to do with the model / type. We routinely see astromech droids named "R-" something, and I'm pretty sure there were other protocol droids with a C3- designation. There's clearly a relationship.

Good answer very helpful,

And I didnt quite mean that Name has nothing to do with model, I think I wasnt clear there. I would certainly say any R series astro would be R(Whatever their series)-Unique identifying number.

What gets me is that in some cases, the RNumber doesnt always align with their actual model.

I have a solution for that, as well. You replied whilst I was editing my post. Organics tend to shorten the name by lopping off the last dozen numbers. In the event of that still leaving a clash, they'll just take a fragment later on in the name. I'm glad you started this topic - it's straightened out a few things for me.

Yeah, thats kind the point of my original question

I dabbled in this once in a different thread:

This is one of the problems I've had with the EU. If you are going to play in the EU, at least see what others have done first before creating even more conflicts. Make him an R4 and everything is fine. But, a writer liked the sound of R7 better and other Clone War era writers followed suit and thus everything set years before by WEG is all mucked up.

Edit: I for one think WEG should have went with the last two letters denoting the model, not the first two. R2D2 would have been a model D2 Astromech Droid. I can't see people calling their droid by the model number with the large amount of similar droids running around. Calling out, "R2 come here!" could have got you trampled by a horde of rolling barrels in the wrong space hangar.

(yes I know they aren't all R2's, best pic I could find)

Btw, my droid PC is named Regi (pronounced Reggie) after the designation R3-G1. When I first started playing him, I said that he had his clear transparisteel dome replaced with the solid metal dome of an R2 unit as a disguise. Since then he has gone back to the clear dome and original factory colors.

This image is modified from some great work originally done by Steel Rat and shared here .

Lucas probably calls all astromechs R2s, I think the above classifications were started by WEG and added to by WoTC.

Personally I like the varied models.

We had a technical droid (mechanic) named Z3-R0 (Zero) and I have an R4-V3 we call "Rave" on our new freighter. She's outfitted in a black shell body, pink paint highlights and neon blue glowing out from her internals. She tends to strobe and flash lights when playing her favorite cantina music while she's working on the ship.

Lucas probably calls all astromechs R2s, I think the above classifications were started by WEG and added to by WoTC.

Personally I like the varied models.

So basically the only major difference between all the droids from R2-R9 is the dome and whatever's inside?

So according to wookieepedia (Legends).

The R5 was discontinued 22BBY.

And the R6 came out "soon after the battle of Endor"

Thats like... 30 years between models!

the R4 and R5 were cheaper, by sacrificing features. I believe hte R4 was an 'Agromech', aimed more at the Fringe worlds, that space captains and military for ship purposes.

The R5 was a bigger step in that direction, but was a massive failure. But many R2-AG series droids (Presumably an R2 Agromech variant) and R4 series droids were packed in excess R5 shells.

So really they could look different but have the same inners, or different inners, in the same shell...

Which kinda answered my own question come to think of it!

Personally I like the varied models.

I like the varied models too (except ONE of these things is not like the other). I just dislike all of the inconsistencies brought on by poor research.

Personally I like the varied models.

I like the varied models too (except ONE of these things is not like the other). I just dislike all of the inconsistencies brought on by poor research.

Do you mean that the R1 is a two metre tall, cumbersome droid, usually used on capital ships?

Do you mean that the R1 is a two metre tall, cumbersome droid, usually used on capital ships?

I mean that the R1 is a 2 meter tall droid with no legs. The only thing it has in common with the other astromech droids is it has a round head. Short, squat, legged, barrel shaped, dome or cone headed versus tall, not squat, not legged, not barrel shaped, with a dome head. I think it was WEG saying, "what the heck is this thing?" and just tossing it into the astromech pile due to the dome head with the addendum of "ut oh it's so big it must be only used on capital ships!"

Well all I have to go on is Wookieepedia, and it references more than WEG.

I have the Fact Files it references, but im not going to go look it up. But their info may have come from WEG anyway.

However, since R2s were about in the PT, its fair to assume the R1 was a very old design, a prototype of sorts. If the R2 had been about then, and the R4 in common use barely 10 years later, its not a stretch to believe its even older.

But what else do we have to go on? You cite bad research, but really... how much more research can someone do without access to some extraordinary sources?

Well all I have to go on is Wookieepedia, and it references more than WEG.

I have the Fact Files it references, but im not going to go look it up. But their info may have come from WEG anyway.

However, since R2s were about in the PT, its fair to assume the R1 was a very old design, a prototype of sorts. If the R2 had been about then, and the R4 in common use barely 10 years later, its not a stretch to believe its even older.

But what else do we have to go on? You cite bad research, but really... how much more research can someone do without access to some extraordinary sources?

By bad research I meant the various inconsistencies of the entire line, not the R1 specifically. I just don't think the R1 should have been lumped in with the others as an astromech. Yes its description explains it away (capital ships, even though there are far older astromechs in later EU that are as small as the R2 so why go so big in the first place?), but I think it would have been a better choice to make it some sort of other droid. That barrel sticking out of it's head is a weapon? Security Droid. That barrel is a tool? Some sort of large plasma welder construction droid. Something completely different would have been more creative (imho) then noting one little characteristic (dome head) and calling it an astromech even though so many other characteristics screams it's not one. Doctorwhat's image posted above kind tells it all for me.

Sorry for the tanget, I will go put some large mittens on.