At it's core; Spitfire allows you to make a two-weapon attack at one target and if you succeed you can hit anyone else in range with your second shot; be they a minion Stormtrooper or Darth Vader. That's the big advantage of Spitfire; applying minion defenses to BBEGs for 2 Advantage.

I don’t believe that Autofire says that you have to hit the more difficult target first, but that was part of the developer clarification.

I’d apply the same clarification here. But maybe that’s just me.

At it's core; Spitfire allows you to make a two-weapon attack at one target and if you succeed you can hit anyone else in range with your second shot; be they a minion Stormtrooper or Darth Vader. That's the big advantage of Spitfire; applying minion defenses to BBEGs for 2 Advantage.

I don’t believe that Autofire says that you have to hit the more difficult target first, but that was part of the developer clarification.

I’d apply the same clarification here. But maybe that’s just me.

With Autofire you have to declare everyone you're attempting to target with the attack.

AUTO-FIRE (snip)

...If the attacker wishes to [auto-fire], he must decide to do so before making the check. Furthermore, if he wishes to hit multiple targets, his initial target must always be the target with the highest difficulty and highest defense...

Spitfire lacks any wording along those lines, so by RAW you don't have to declare your second target. You don't even have to declare you're using Spitfire, only that you're using a Two-Weapon Attack against a specific target. Nothing in the Spitfire talent says you need to state you're using it, or "take a Spitfire action", just that if you hit and are able to trigger a second hit with your second weapon, that hit and any after it can be applied to any target in range.

Can you apply the same ruling to Spitfire as a house rule? Sure, but I think it weakens the talent. Pistols are already gimped behind blaster rifles for damage, this isn't a bad boost for them for all the XP it takes to get to it.

Another advantage of Spitfire is when using an autofire pistol as your secondary weapon. If you did this using regular two weapon combat, you would be forced to apply all hits from autofire to the same target, since that's one of the requirements of two-weapon combat. With Spitfire, they can go to any target within range, and you don't even have to specify them ahead of time.

Same goes for linked. Every activation of Linked is an "additional hit" and can therefore be allocated to anyone within range.

As to why use an autofire pistol as a secondary, rather than primary weapon... only the primary weapon is used for creating the dice pool. Therefore, even if you declare that you're using autofire on your secondary weapon, you don't have to take the lowest skill/char rank, nor do you increase the difficulty (beyond the requirement for two weapon combat), nor do you have to declare who will be the target for your autofire, since two weapon combat is only against a single target. So, basically, you get the advantage of autofire without any additional penalties, other than being forced to apply all additional hits to the same target and requiring two additional advantage just to activate the weapon.

And with Spitfire, the "same target" penalty goes away as well.

For TWC don't you pick the hardest difficulty of the 2 weapons? So auto fire would have that hardest difficulty, there for it would not matter which was primary or secondary?

Your description is spot on for Linked though

For TWC don't you pick the hardest difficulty of the 2 weapons? So auto fire would have that hardest difficulty, there for it would not matter which was primary or secondary?

Your description is spot on for Linked though

Yeah, you're right. You take the highest difficulty and add one purple, so I guess it doesn't matter (I shouldn't have posted that at 11:30 at night ). So, you end up with two extra difficulty dice instead of one. But... when used with Spitfire, you can target the easiest enemy and still hit anything within range that you want to without choosing them ahead of time.

Couple of double barrel sawn offs, 2 shots each with blast on 4 different targets... That's how you use Spitfire!

For TWC don't you pick the hardest difficulty of the 2 weapons? So auto fire would have that hardest difficulty, there for it would not matter which was primary or secondary?

Your description is spot on for Linked though

Yeah, you're right. You take the highest difficulty and add one purple, so I guess it doesn't matter (I shouldn't have posted that at 11:30 at night ). So, you end up with two extra difficulty dice instead of one. But... when used with Spitfire, you can target the easiest enemy and still hit anything within range that you want to without choosing them ahead of time.

Well, no - if you're declaring your attack and you want to activate autofire, that's a more difficult check, so you'd have to declare that you're using autofire in advance so you can determine which enemy has the highest defense/difficulty. You aren't entitled to ignore the text in the autofire entry:

"If the attacker wishes to hit multiple targets, he must decide to do so before making the check. Furthermore, if he wishes to hit multiple targets, his initial target must always be the one with the highest difficulty and the highest defense... Subsequent hits generated can be allocated to any one of the designated targets ." - FaD, pg. 162

If you don't want to be bound by those rules, then you declare in advance that you will not be using auto-fire on the attack. If you DO want to use auto-fire on your weapon, those rules apply to the autofire weapon/s you're using. Got to designate your targets, got to determine the one with the highest difficulty/defense, all before making your two-weapon combat check. The only hit Spitfire allows for you to allocate freely is the other pistol in the other hand. So if you declare you're firing your SE-14r and your Nova Viper in a Two-Weapon Combat combined check, you then must declare whether the SE-14r is being used to autofire, pick your potential targets and determine the hardest difficulty and defense amongst them, increase the difficulty by two due to autofire and Two-Weapon Combat, and roll. One you've rolled, you can determine what your advantages are used for, whether it be auto-fire additional hits, or your alternate pistol hit as a result of Two Weapon Combat. If you have Spitfire, you can choose to allocate that alternate pistol hit to other targets within range, rather than the initial target. It can never be a target that was harder to hit than the initial target, because you had to specifically determine that hardest target amongst your potential targets when you declared that you were using autofire on your attack roll. Spitfire doesn't allow you to circumvent the autofire requirements - as the process of declaring autofire and determining targets occurs before you roll dice.

So one of my players who doesn't even have the tree said what's to stop a player from targeting a chandelier with two weapons and using spitfire

to hit the sith Lord with the second shot.

I guess he technically is right.

So one of my players who doesn't even have the tree said what's to stop a player from targeting a chandelier with two weapons and using spitfire

to hit the sith Lord with the second shot.

I guess he technically is right.

I think that scenario falls squarely under Rules Adjudication p.294 EoE and I simply wouldn't allow it.

At first I thought no, but why not. Game is supposed to be fun. If he made it his thing then I would say no, but occasionally wouldn't care. Plus then the chandelier comes down and accidently hits an innocent bystander and kills them. Now the gunslinger will think twice about always using it

I'd allow him to shoot a chandelier, but not bypass ranks of Adversary, it is rules lawyering to take advantage of loophole in order to make an easier shot on an opponent with ranks of Adversary and really has nothing to do with "fun" imo. To say something is fun because it completely guts the rules more or less makes me ask why roll dice at all?

I have a very simple rule of thumb that I practice at my table. It covers all the various instances where additional successes or advantages lets you affect other targets than your primary. Simply put, any character using an ability like that (be it Spitfire, Scathing Tirade, good old Auto-Fire or anything else) must target the character with the highest difficulty that they wish to affect. If they pick a lowly minion with no defence and no defensive talents they can't just spend 2 advantage and land a hit on the Big Bad who has three ranks in Adversary and ranged defence 2. If they target the Big Bad instead, they can happily lay the smackdown on everyone else nearby.

If you read above this is why the talent is in question for what it grants. If it was a one time thing I wouldn't stop it from happening. The sith Lord or adversary will just get angered and will do something more evil back.

The rule at the table always the highest makes Spitfire only grant you can hit two targets with two weapon fighting which makes a 25 pt bottom talent pretty much useless.

Either the talent offers a way to hit a more powerfull 2nd opponent without the added difficulty or it adds the autofire capability or its just a useless talent.

Since the Spitfire Talent is on communication blackout from the devs, I'm just going to rule it grants autofire, till we get something official.

Sam usually answers questions in batches. He's probably waiting until he has some time and will be answering all his questions at once.

Sam usually answers questions in batches. He's probably waiting until he has some time and will be answering all his questions at once.

I like to think they're busy making lotsa new content for the good boys and girls of the village.....

I'd allow him to shoot a chandelier, but not bypass ranks of Adversary, it is rules lawyering to take advantage of loophole in order to make an easier shot on an opponent with ranks of Adversary and really has nothing to do with "fun" imo. To say something is fun because it completely guts the rules more or less makes me ask why roll dice at all?

Spitfire already allows you to bypass adversary. As you can shoot a minion with your first shot and use 2 adv to hit the nemesis with your second shot. It is part of what makes it a useful talent over autofire. And don't forget it is a 25 point talent it should be awesome.

If it just gives you autofire it is a really really expensive what to get autofire and therefore lame. On the other hand is it operates as its text says and allows you to hit and target for 2 adv it is worth the 25 xp and the trip through the tree to get it.

I'd have less of an issue if a PC targeted an actual opponent as opposed to intentionally targeting an inanimate object to just bypass ranks of Adversary. That's just rule lawyering at it's worst.

I'd have less of an issue if a PC targeted an actual opponent as opposed to intentionally targeting an inanimate object to just bypass ranks of Adversary. That's just rule lawyering at it's worst.

Or being cinematic. We see people shooting chandeliers in swashbuckling movies all the time. How is this different than targeting a minion without adversary? If they are trying to knock down a chandelier that should at least add a couple setback. Instead of complaining think about what they are trying to do and set the difficulty appropriately as well as appropriate situational modifiers.

it is a 25 xp talent that took an additional 50xp to get. A player should be able to be awesome with it.

By that reasoning they can shoot a bush, box or just about anything, all to bypass a higher difficulty. Blasting at an inanimate object shouldn't suddenly make Darth Vader easier to hit. That isn't fun or clever, it's ridiculous. There's a lot of talk concerning the spirit of the rules and allowing that kind of tomfoolery goes against it.

I would be fine with a PC shooting a chandalier and, depending on results, making things easier when hitting an opponent. Perhaps the raining crystals distracted or harmed the adversary? Something like that is very "Star Wars" and keeping with the spirit if the game.

I'm not complaining. I'm also not going to speculate over justifications for it. Cinematic shouldn't be used as an excuse for cheating.

So following the rules as written is cheating now... interesting.

So following the rules as written is cheating now... interesting.

Allowing someone to target inanimate objects to bypass ranks on Adversary on a Nemesis with this talent? Yes, it is cheating, it is also stupid.

"However, rules lawyering—using

So following the rules as written is cheating now... interesting.

Allowing someone to target inanimate objects to bypass ranks on Adversary on a Nemesis with this talent? Yes, it is cheating, it is also stupid.

"However, rules lawyering—using

the minutiae of the rules to gain an unfair, unexpected,

or unintended advantage in game—should be

avoided by both players and GMs."

I see a difference between targeting a chandelier and targeting a random bush. One is cinematic. The other is not.

BS. You wanna prove your super hero space adventurer status and not take advantage of a rule loophole? You shoot the Nemesis and use the extra hits on the chandelier. One is cinematic and narrative and the other is a BS excuse, taking advantage of a rule loophole.