I am directing a campaign of Dark Heresy. Recently one of my players has bought the basic manual of Dark Heresy and, after read it, he complained because there is an optional rule that NPCs couldn't repeat the "10", and I repeat each and every "10" that they draw. After read this rule, I thought that it was unfair, that is the reason because I didn't use it. But I would like to know if other masters repeat the NPCs' "10" or not.

Thanks.

Kinai.

Nope, Righteous Fury is for PCs and important NPCs only.

Kinai said:

In my games, be it WFRP or DH, each and every (no matter important ot not) NPC has the right for Righteous/Ulric's Fury. It has been so for many years, and it has turned the outcome of many a battle.

Otherwise, it's definitely unfair.

Cifer said:

/agree

Kinai said:

Righteous Fury is for everyone in my games. This isn't D&D. This isn't fair. You die in this game. You lose characters. It's -fun-. Nothing like an Ork with a Power Klaw rolling a big fat 10 on the damage. Instant decapitation.

Kruniac said:

While I agree that this system is all about 40k and not supposed to be fair, I don't believe all NPCs should get RF. First and foremost RF represents the emperors blessing, Orks wont be granted that no matter how many times they roll a 10. And yes, I do believe that dark gods can grant the same ability to their followes.

My only real problem with having all NPCs gain RF is the fact the the PCs will fight many more NPCs than NPCS will fight PCs. The odds are stacked against the players. In a group of 4 PCs vs 10-20 gangers (read: mooks) the NPCs will gain RF more often and while I don't mind a challenging fight that requires tactics, I think its ridiculous to give all NPCs that much power that they could kill the party in one fell swoop. Its all about the story and if giving NPCs RF furthers the story then so be it, but if it takes away from the story and players fun then it needs to be reconsidered.

What i do is, important NPCs get to use Righteous Fury following RAW.

For the lesser grunts and thugs i give them a penalty to it. So if a grunt rolls a ten for damage i let him roll again to see if he hits for Righteous Fury but this roll is at a penalty of -20. This means that even a lowly grunt can inflict serious damage but it doesn't happen too often.

I find this helps keep a feeling of serious threat in all fights but it doesn't make everything too deadly.

darkstar952 said:

I like that, I may bring that to my GM next time we play and see what the group thinks of it

I like the sound of that. I was looking for a way to improve the danger of fighting the rank and file without the full RF rules (now that my guys are pretty well equipped).

Kruniac said:

In your games Ork's with Power Klaws are considered unimportant NPC's. In that case go ahead

Kruniac said:

I mean unfair for the NPCs. I directed Warhammer Fantasy before, and I repeated the 6 for everybody, so...

Kinai.

Emprah_Horus said:

It's not the Emperor's blessing, its Mork's/Khorne's/Khaine's/Whatever's blessing. Its a moment of unnatural luck/strength/carnage that is meant to leave a lasting impression on the situation, namely accomplishing massive damage that should not be normally possible.

Also, if 4 PCs without exceptional arms and armor are taking on 10-20 gangers (Read: Human beings that follow the same rules as all other human beings), then they deserve to die. No one in their right mind is going to blatently attack a horde of firearm wielding maniacs without good protection or reinforcements.

We don't play Dark Heresy as an investigative Inquisition game. We play it as a Warhammer 40k roleplaying game. In other words, the PCs might be playing Eldar, Orks, Chaos cultists (working on figuring out how to work in Chaos Marines), or any number of things to accomplish an objective or goal of some kind.

If -everything- doesn't get 10 damage rerolls, then it quickly becomes clear that the group of PCs are "Novel" level of importance, which isnt the case. They are typical for their job descriptions in a grim future, where death is around every corner.

At least that's just how we play.

Also, if 4 PCs without exceptional arms and armor are taking on 10-20 gangers (Read: Human beings that follow the same rules as all other human beings), then they deserve to die. No one in their right mind is going to blatently attack a horde of firearm wielding maniacs without good protection or reinforcements.

And they still will die even if noone rolls any 10s at all.

Not using Righteous Fury for standard NPCs simply removes that "You see a ganger appearing in the building's window leveling his autopistol at you. Roll Initiative! <roll> He goes first. He shoots Full Auto at the assassin <roll> three hits. Roll for Dodge! <roll> You dodge one bullet. <roll> <roll> <roll> Ok, that's eight damage for the first bullet and 19 for the second one. How much armour and toughness did you say you have? Ah, not enough. Ok, you die or burn a fate point and you're unconscious. So, what do the rest of you do?"
Doesn't sound that much fun, but maybe that's just me.

Cifer said:

It's just you. Well, kinda.

Sure, getting blind-sided like that isn't much fun, but if the group is using RF for All, then chances are, they take their combat engagements (and any situation that can potently result in one) fairly seriously and, as such, things like random ganger's shooting out of windows simply doesn't occur much unless there's a reason for it. For such groups, combat isn't a pinch of spice or a random afterthought to the story but a pivotal point that will result in nothing ever being the same again.

All NPC's in my game can get RF. Furthermore, I've eliminated the confirmation for RF as it was too much rolling. If a 0 is rolled, it automatically "explodes". However, run of the mill NPC's can only ever get one RF per damage roll (if they roll a second 0, it remains as just a 10). PC's and inportant NPC's can have the 0's explode indefinitely. As long as they keep rolling 0's, they'll keep rolling more.

Of course, in my game, combat only happens, on average, about once every 3 sessions or so though guns tend to get drawn more frequently then that. However, the triggers git pulled far less frequently as both parties (the PC's and the NPC's) are usually not too keen on dying and wont risk it unless they think they have a clear and complete advantage over the other. The PC's prefer to ambush and rarely fight fair (a duel with staffs to First Blood was the first and only fair fight any of the PC's have ever engaged in to date) and NPC's will run, retreat, or surrender if they think that will keep them alive. We tend to have a lot more standoff's with shouted "negotiations" at the end of a gun barrels with neither side quite willing to pull the trigger and turn the situation into a complete cluster-f*** as, almost without fail, if a situation ever turns into a strait up combat situation, then everything's gone to hell and the PC's are looking for a way out... unless they're leading a whole pack of arbiters in a purge in which case, they have the clear and complete advantage and gleefully welcome being a part of a brutal and one sided slaughter.

Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Righteous Fury / Unholy Wrath .. Everyone gets to reroll 10's in my game. I did require some close calls for some of my players to realize that "yes, the lowly gang member might just get lucky". Now the PC's dive for cover when kids play with firecrackers out side... I have my fun

Thought of the day: Bullets have the right of way

Graver said:

not just him, I think that type of game sounds not fun at all, and I wouldn't play in it. what's the point of coming up with cool backgrounds for characters that die every other week due to johnny the gimp ganger rolling a 10? the story is supposed to form around the players, not try to kill them off. sounds like a case of dm vs players to me.

im not out to kill my players when I run, my job is to let them have fun.

if YOUR players enjoy that type of lethality in your game, more power to you. chances are though, if asked, i bet they wouldnt.

Smokes said:

Well, I did say "kinda" ;-p.

I'm a GM, not a DM and i did ask them. Before I house rule anything (and since the RAW states that only PC's and important NPC's get RF, having RF for all is a House Rule as is doing away with confirmation), I ask them first. That's just being polite ;-)

I am not against them. I love their characters and have worked my self to build up their stories. I run the game not only for my own enjoyment but for them as well. I don't aim to kill the PC's either -that's not the point nor is it fun for anyone involved (strait up combat sequences aren't that fun for me to be honest). A higher level of danger, a deep respect for deadly weapons no matter who's holding it, increased drama in dangerous situations, an avoidance of flat out combat, and faster combat when it dose occur is the point (we prefer combats to take less the 10 minutes of real time and if more damage is being handed out by all, it tends to speed things up or prevent the combat from happening in the first place).

We just play differently then you folks I reckon. Even with the increased lethality of the system we use there has only ever been one character death in over a year of playing every week (though one character got retired because the player was tiered of playing him). I might have another in a few sessions as one of the characters is out of fate points, but then again, he's survived for the last 8 sessions without any and is still going strong (and I don't see any combat breaking out for a good little while, at least for the next 3 or 4 sessions).

In my game we have a houe rule called "Everyone is Righteous". It spices up combat a lot, and gives the PCs a reason to take every combat deadly seriously. As far as death goes that's why you have fate points. Mostly my PCs seem to get maimed a lot.

Playing the RAW to begin with to check DH out, I sat down after a few sessions with my players and decided to beef up the danger.

But they are bloody little gore-lovers and enjoy when things get nasty.

So RF for everyone, open dice rolls for enemy hit-rolls and damage and we even came up with a Damage mod to make it even deadlier

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=100&efcid=3&efidt=52484

So far (year and a half, playing 2-3 times a month) I i've had two PC deaths, one of which was a heroic suicide (holding the line while the rest got away), so it's not a PC slaughter house but it does remove the "hack N slash" feel which my players dislike.

Of course every group has it's own feel or perhaps I just ended up with a bunch of lunatic palyers, but as long as it's fun... right?