Hey guys,

The Serpent Dagger keeps me puzzled... I've seen previous ruling on how to apply 2 surges (target is just poisoned, not getting 2 additional damage), but I really struggle with this logic.

The card says:

"If the target is poisoned, this attack gains 2 damage."

"2 surges: the target is poisoned, even if you didn't deal any damage"

"1 surge: Pierce 2"

If this ruling is correct, that would mean that the effect of 2 surges is way worse than the effect of just 1 surge.

Suppose the attacker rolls 2 hearts and defender 2 shields:

- With 1 surge on the attack: Pierce 2, so 2 damage

- With 2 surges on the attack: Poison, and 0 damage

.

How is 2 surges better if it's just "poisoned"? Everyone would pick Pierce 2 + Recover Fatigue instead...

I can only imagine it was always intended that a 2 surge would do: Poison + 2 damage (since target then is poisoned). Furthermore, how different is the text/logic of this card from a surge just dealing additional damage? (target gets poisoned, poisoned means 2 additional damage).

Thanks for your thoughts!

The primary purpose is to apply poison for future attacks. Also, monsters have no way, normally, to recover from poison or other conditions, so if it's going to get 2 turns after this point, poison is pretty much the same as +2 damage.

Consider a scenario of you attacking twice:

First attack: 3 damage, 2 surges, 3 shields. You can use one surge to recover a fatigue and the other for piercing 2 for 2 damage total, or you can poison.

Second attack: 2 damage, 2 shields, 1 surge. You can only choose piercing 2 here. Net result, 2 damage.

Overall results, 4 damage. However, if on the first one, you'd applied poison instead of taking the two damage, you'd have dealt 4 damage and poisoned the target.

Against high armored monsters poison adds a reliable source of steady income independent of any further attack or reliance of reach like the bards aura. In combination with doom poison really shines. This weapon hits significantly harder when the target is poisoned with two free damage and pierce 2 on act 1 weapon. It may not be a perfect first strike weapon but it definately is a nice offhand.

The primary purpose is to apply poison for future attacks. Also, monsters have no way, normally, to recover from poison or other conditions, so if it's going to get 2 turns after this point, poison is pretty much the same as +2 damage.

Consider a scenario of you attacking twice:

First attack: 3 damage, 2 surges, 3 shields. You can use one surge to recover a fatigue and the other for piercing 2 for 2 damage total, or you can poison.

Second attack: 2 damage, 2 shields, 1 surge. You can only choose piercing 2 here. Net result, 2 damage.

Overall results, 4 damage. However, if on the first one, you'd applied poison instead of taking the two damage, you'd have dealt 4 damage and poisoned the target.

You forgot to add the +2 damage on the second attack...

So overall result 6 damage, whereas using the first 2 surges to do pierce and recover 1 fatigue would have netted only 4 damage.

Yeah, any2cards- master bandit's black venom can be ruthless against the right target.

Yeah, any2cards- master bandit's black venom can be ruthless against the right target.

Hmmm ... on your mind, am I? I hadn't even participated in this thread yet !

I was about to, so you obviously are a very powerful OL with prescient abilities.

Yeah, any2cards- master bandit's black venom can be ruthless against the right target.

Hmmm ... on your mind, am I? I hadn't even participated in this thread yet !

I was about to, so you obviously are a very powerful OL with prescient abilities.

Ha! It's not my fault both you and Funkfried use the same icon. I also applaud your use of "prescient." I haven't heard that word in a long time.

The primary purpose is to apply poison for future attacks. Also, monsters have no way, normally, to recover from poison or other conditions, so if it's going to get 2 turns after this point, poison is pretty much the same as +2 damage.

Consider a scenario of you attacking twice:

First attack: 3 damage, 2 surges, 3 shields. You can use one surge to recover a fatigue and the other for piercing 2 for 2 damage total, or you can poison.

Second attack: 2 damage, 2 shields, 1 surge. You can only choose piercing 2 here. Net result, 2 damage.

Overall results, 4 damage. However, if on the first one, you'd applied poison instead of taking the two damage, you'd have dealt 4 damage and poisoned the target.

You forgot to add the +2 damage on the second attack...

So overall result 6 damage, whereas using the first 2 surges to do pierce and recover 1 fatigue would have netted only 4 damage.

No I didn't, because on the first attack, if you choose poison instead of piercing 2, the first attack did no damage at all.

Thanks guys, this makes sense and I guess thematically it's understandable that just a dagger doesn't do a ton of damage in a first strike, but will when striking a second or third time...

It's just that in a game where every single action is so valuable, it feels a bit counter-intuitive to spend a whole action to just 'setup' for any future, bigger damage. Then again, I guess that's the charm of different weapons working in different ways...