I've got a few questions regarding the Squad and Squadron rules.

When targeting a Squad, you target the leader and not the minions, so if the leader (like a Storm Trooper Sergeant) has the Adversary 1 Talent, it upgrades the difficulty once. So you can never target the minions themselves, they only count has boosters to the leader. I have 2 questions about Squads.

When you hit the Squad, the leader can redirect the hit to any minion, destroying that minion. Does this mean that even if a hit does 47 damage against a soak 3, health 4 minion, it only kills one, or does it works the same one has hitting a minion group ???

What happens when I roll a critical on the leader, I guess the critical gets transferred to the minion with the hit, does it only kill one minion, or kill another minion and deal the damage to the first ???

The answers to both these questions have very huge implications on the survival of a Nemesis surrounded by a squad.
Thanks for the answers.

...this is why speeders and starfighters shouldn't use the x10 "starship scale."

Question: Where do the rules say that you can't target the minions in a squad or squadron?

I can't find where it says that minions can't be targeted. I have never played it that way, myself.

So, to answer question 1: You'd be better off attacking the minions themselves, whom the GM might treat as a minion group for damage. This means that, if you're somehow doing 47 damage, you'd probably clear out a good portion of the squad If you attacked the leader directly, then he would use his leadership capabilities and combat acumen to tell his mooks to "Get down!" and only one of them would suffer the wrath of the 47-damage-smite. This is all very cinematic when you think about it.

And as for 2: First, a clarification: you never "roll" a critical. This is important. If you succeeded against an attack against the leader, and he chooses to redirect the hit(s) to one (or more) of his minions, then he wouldn't be a valid target to receive a critical injury in the first place, since to take a critical injury you've got to suffer damage exceeding your soak. So, if you're the attacking character, you'd be better off spending your Triumph or Advantage on something else instead of a critical injury that isn't going to affect anyone

...this is why speeders and starfighters shouldn't use the x10 "starship scale."

I don't think starfighters can do 47 damage. I'm sure JP_JP's just giving us a ludicrously high damage value to illustrate a point.

...this is why speeders and starfighters shouldn't use the x10 "starship scale."

I don't think starfighters can do 47 damage. I'm sure JP_JP's just giving us a ludicrously high damage value to illustrate a point.

That's a 4 damage laser cannon converted to personal scale, with 7 successes. A few of which are triumphs for the crits.

Hum, successes on Planetary scale weapons add to the base damage of the weapon, so 7 successes on a 4 damage Laser cannon would convert to a plaid 110 damage, right above ludicrous.

...this is why speeders and starfighters shouldn't use the x10 "starship scale."

I don't think starfighters can do 47 damage. I'm sure JP_JP's just giving us a ludicrously high damage value to illustrate a point.

That's a 4 damage laser cannon converted to personal scale, with 7 successes. A few of which are triumphs for the crits.

Wouldn't 7 successes with a damage 4 laser cannon be 11 damage starship scale or 110 damage personal scale or an entire minion group of 20 Imperial Stormtroopers (Soak 5, WT 5, need 101 points of damage after soak to exceed the WT of the 20th trooper). You know, they really shouldn't stand so close together.

Hum, successes on Planetary scale weapons add to the base damage of the weapon, so 7 successes on a 4 damage Laser cannon would convert to a plaid 110 damage, right above ludicrous.

Darn, beat me to it.

The RAW say it redirects to a minion, not a minion group. So I would rule that in most cases, it simply takes out a single minion. This can be narrated by saying something like, they see the strafing run incoming, and they all run out of the oncoming path, except the last guy, who gets caught and turned into pink mist.

Of course, as the GM, can you can use GM Fiat to overrule it if that seems to suit the situation better or make for a more fun experience for your players. Note that this is not an official ruling, just the intention I had when originally writing it.

Thanks for the replies...

The 47 damage was just overkill to make a point.... don't over think it

So the Squad rules is a way to have your Nemesis live longer in a fight since the players have to kill his meat shield. The players have to kill the minions first, since targeting the Nemesis isn't effective damage-wise, killing just 1 minion each hit instead of potentially many when targeting the minions directly. It is also a good way to help your players live through a starfighter battle since they can have squadron mates to take a few hits for them instead.

In the end, as a GM, you sacrifice firepower from the minion group for more survivability for the Nemesis.

Thanks again.

So the Squad rules is a way to have your Nemesis live longer in a fight since the players have to kill his meat shield. The players have to kill the minions first, since targeting the Nemesis isn't effective damage-wise, killing just 1 minion each hit instead of potentially many when targeting the minions directly. It is also a good way to help your players live through a starfighter battle since they can have squadron mates to take a few hits for them instead.

Note though that the squad isn't technically a minion group...it's really up to the GM as to how to treat the minions as grouped or ungrouped. But I would personally treat them as a group, or possibly 2-3 groups, depending on the size of the squad.

But yes, that is the way the squadron rules work Much better to target the minions than the leader.

Thanks for the replies...

The 47 damage was just overkill to make a point.... don't over think it

I know, but I had to do the math on sniper joe...

Note though that the squad isn't technically a minion group...it's really up to the GM as to how to treat the minions as grouped or ungrouped. But I would personally treat them as a group, or possibly 2-3 groups, depending on the size of the squad.

"... the character can lead up to 11 allied minions already within engaged range."

"These minions are now members of their squad..."

The more I read the rules on Squads, the more I'm at a loss. I guess what awayputurwpn points is that you can't target the minions his the Squad, only the Squad which is the Squad Leader.

Here is the way I would play it :

One Storm Trooper Sergeant commands a Squad of 11 Storm Troopers, He partially disbands his Squad to build up 3 minions groups of 3 Storm Troopers, keeping 2 Storm Troopers within the Squad. The Sergeant would then use his "Tactical Direction" talent to increase his minion groups effectiveness and use the Dug In to increase his Defense. If the players target the Squad to take out the Sergeant, he would use his 2 Storm Troopers as meat shield to soak the shots. When the 2 Storm Troopers are down, I'd use a maneuver and action from another minion group to take their place in the Squad, covering the leader. That way, I have, at first, 3 minion groups and the Squad leader that can attack, and I've got the Formations options to use with the Sergeant (Dug In or Close seem very useful).

Am I doing it right ?

I think the rules would have been much simpler if they just said that the Formations Rules can be used by minion groups under the command of a Leader and that any minion within engaged range can be use as meat shield by the Leader. It would be a lot easier to use and more potent in my opinion.

JP, you are doing it right.

That sounds like a very smart tactical decision. Squads are really designed for PC/Nemesis survivability, not for firepower, so that Sergeant you describe is simply ordering his troops into more tactically offensive position. Mechanically, that means 3 groups of 3 troopers, giving you a potential for three extra attacks at YYG each, at the cost of extra meat-shielding.

Here's an interesting trade-off: unless you're a higher-damage character, like say north of 11 damage for an attack, you'd often be better off attacking the leader instead of the squad. This is because your one hit of, say, 6 damage, which would normally be almost ignored by a stormtrooper, can just take out a stormtrooper if the leader decides to redirect it to one of the minions in his squad. So the leader is faced with a choice: lose a minion, or take 3 wounds (for example). A bunch of hits like that, and while you might not be putting much of a dent in a minion group, you can actually take down a squad or their leader pretty effectively by putting the leader in the position of having to choose who takes the hit.

Grenades are also a good choice

I can understand the inclination to simplify things, but the squad rules are really quite balanced and mostly easy to remember once you've had a few turns with them, just like the normal rules for combat are. A lot of the balance is found in the Table 1-2 & Table 1-3 from the GM Kit. There are some solid options for spending Threat & Advantage there.

Thanks awayputurwpn.
I'll try it like you said... You make a pretty good point and it makes Squad Combat a little more meaningful if the leader has to choose between taking a low hit or loosing a minion.

Saturday is the day I'll give you all feedback on how it went.
Thanks.

...this is why speeders and starfighters shouldn't use the x10 "starship scale."

I don't think starfighters can do 47 damage. I'm sure JP_JP's just giving us a ludicrously high damage value to illustrate a point.

That's a 4 damage laser cannon converted to personal scale, with 7 successes. A few of which are triumphs for the crits.

Wouldn't 7 successes with a damage 4 laser cannon be 11 damage starship scale or 110 damage personal scale or an entire minion group of 20 Imperial Stormtroopers (Soak 5, WT 5, need 101 points of damage after soak to exceed the WT of the 20th trooper). You know, they really shouldn't stand so close together.

I got it. Starship weapon with 5 damage means 50 on people scale. If people has 3 soak, you get 47 damage. Unless soak does not apply to starship weapons?

...this is why speeders and starfighters shouldn't use the x10 "starship scale."

I don't think starfighters can do 47 damage. I'm sure JP_JP's just giving us a ludicrously high damage value to illustrate a point.

That's a 4 damage laser cannon converted to personal scale, with 7 successes. A few of which are triumphs for the crits.

Wouldn't 7 successes with a damage 4 laser cannon be 11 damage starship scale or 110 damage personal scale or an entire minion group of 20 Imperial Stormtroopers (Soak 5, WT 5, need 101 points of damage after soak to exceed the WT of the 20th trooper). You know, they really shouldn't stand so close together.

I got it. Starship weapon with 5 damage means 50 on people scale. If people has 3 soak, you get 47 damage. Unless soak does not apply to starship weapons?

It applies unless the weapon also has a quality that allows it to ignore soak or armor...