Yeah, Ten with the ManCannon (totally using that now) is finally a piece worth fielding. Remember how initially excited people were about Lt. Blount's ability to have a guarenteed hit result? Ten has that, only his actually does damage.

All those Interceptor pilots who were so excited to field Soontir with a Autothrusters and a Stealth Device are gong to be cursing you when they see this combo line up across the table.

maybe not across the table

dem auto-thrusters are quite well suited for that distance oh right its nub

jesus, i dont think ive ever seen him hit the table before

Why take the mancannon when you can tale marksmanship? Unless you need the EPT slot, there's not much of a reason

Because Marksmanship eats your Action, along with that EPT, which you may want for something else. The cannon may cost a point more but it will be much easier to use.

I figured you would use the Mangler for 2-attack or lower ships, and the HLC remains clearly better for anything with a base of 3 or more.

It doesn't replace the HLC. For many of the 3-attack ships in the game, a Mangler cannon is very nearly redundant.

Sadly, the only 2 attack cannon bearing ship is the Scyk

Everything else is a matter of synergy. Nub and imperial Kath will more than likely enjoy it (esp Nub since it frees him up for PS 10), and Outriders will enjoy it (39 points for an outrider mangler Fringer, making it at least considerably cheaper than other large turrets that aren't gimped)

The YT-2400 is also a 2 attack ship which can carry a Cannon which is why the Mangler is seen as a good option for it.

When it comes to comparing the Mangler Outrider to a named Falcon I wonder if this isn't the best place to look: Leebo + Mangler + Outrider (43 points) vs. Chewbacca (42 points). Guess we could add the Falcon title to Chewie which gives both ships the same points and both access to three actions. The Falcon may have an edge in durability despite being less Agile but the Outrider has the edge when it comes to laying out damage at range.

I figured you would use the Mangler for 2-attack or lower ships, and the HLC remains clearly better for anything with a base of 3 or more.

It doesn't replace the HLC. For many of the 3-attack ships in the game, a Mangler cannon is very nearly redundant.

Sadly, the only 2 attack cannon bearing ship is the Scyk

Everything else is a matter of synergy. Nub and imperial Kath will more than likely enjoy it (esp Nub since it frees him up for PS 10), and Outriders will enjoy it (39 points for an outrider mangler Fringer, making it at least considerably cheaper than other large turrets that aren't gimped)

The YT-2400 is a 2 attack ship with a cannon. Easy to forget when the Outrider ditches the main gun, though.

EDIT: Ninjas

Why take the mancannon when you can tale marksmanship? Unless you need the EPT slot, there's not much of a reason

Marksmanship kind of sucks. Its offensive only and you have to roll an eyeball for it to actually work. I much rather equip a Mangler and focus for my actions. Worse case I use the focus for defense. Numb and Kath will like the Mangler better. Ten Numb with Mangler is going to be a ***** to Ties.

Yeah, Ten with the ManCannon (totally using that now) is finally a piece worth fielding. Remember how initially excited people were about Lt. Blount's ability to have a guarenteed hit result? Ten has that, only his actually does damage.

All those Interceptor pilots who were so excited to field Soontir with a Autothrusters and a Stealth Device are gong to be cursing you when they see this combo line up across the table.

Good luck getting that shot fel sets up after you, he takes a flank goes full speed first turn comes around you the second and because you have one agility you don't live to see turn four, you do however hand the imp player a third of your points, and he says thanks.

Mango cannon on a scyk is a good deal you get one more attack it generates a crit and it denies range three bonus dice all for four points, HLC is better of course but you may not have 7 points free.

On anything with three attack it's a far worse deal.

Mangler is awful. If you are gonna go cannon, go HLC. If not, then go home. Your gonna go Mangler and roll a hit and a crit and your opponent is gonna roll 2 evades and you'll be like "what!" and he'll be like "MmmmHmmm".

I figured you would use the Mangler for 2-attack or lower ships, and the HLC remains clearly better for anything with a base of 3 or more.

It doesn't replace the HLC. For many of the 3-attack ships in the game, a Mangler cannon is very nearly redundant.

you guys don't seem to understand the significance and game changing abilities that auto crits will provide.. crit effects ALWAYS hinder your opponent and in a lot of ways people might actually be hoping to get those direct hits instead or something that hinders their ability to shoot or defend better in the rounds to come

as it stands crits are nice to see every time you luckily roll one and even better when they actually go through

but once you start throwing them out like hot cakes, you're truly going to see just how powerful the mangler canon is going to be. don't count your chickens before they're hatched

i'm just going to state that this cannon is likely going to be seen more often than heavy laser canon currently is. it has no range blind spots and even prevents the extra defense dice from your range 3 target

if i flew rebel ships more often i'd happily take multiple b wings and load them all up with mangler cannons and tear my opponent asunder

...

Mango cannon on a scyk is a good deal you get one more attack it generates a crit and it denies range three bonus dice all for four points, HLC is better of course but you may not have 7 points free.

On anything with three attack it's a far worse deal.

Not exactly. Don't forget that it costs 2 points for a Scyk to carry that Cannon slot which effectively makes the Mangler 6 points and the HLC 9 points.

Why take the mancannon when you can tale marksmanship? Unless you need the EPT slot, there's not much of a reason

Marksmanship kind of sucks. Its offensive only and you have to roll an eyeball for it to actually work. I much rather equip a Mangler and focus for my actions. Worse case I use the focus for defense. Numb and Kath will like the Mangler better. Ten Numb with Mangler is going to be a ***** to Ties.

Yeah, Ten with the ManCannon (totally using that now) is finally a piece worth fielding. Remember how initially excited people were about Lt. Blount's ability to have a guarenteed hit result? Ten has that, only his actually does damage.

All those Interceptor pilots who were so excited to field Soontir with a Autothrusters and a Stealth Device are gong to be cursing you when they see this combo line up across the table.

Good luck getting that shot fel sets up after you, he takes a flank goes full speed first turn comes around you the second and because you have one agility you don't live to see turn four, you do however hand the imp player a third of your points, and he says thanks.

Mango cannon on a scyk is a good deal you get one more attack it generates a crit and it denies range three bonus dice all for four points, HLC is better of course but you may not have 7 points free.

On anything with three attack it's a far worse deal.

As fast and nimble as he is, I have never seen him completely avoid giving someone at least one range 3 shot against him before he starts doing Soontir Fel things. And that's all Numb needs.

Plus, Numb could take VI, which would force Soontir/Phantoms to move before him.

Why take the mancannon when you can tale marksmanship? Unless you need the EPT slot, there's not much of a reason

Marksmanship kind of sucks. Its offensive only and you have to roll an eyeball for it to actually work. I much rather equip a Mangler and focus for my actions. Worse case I use the focus for defense. Numb and Kath will like the Mangler better. Ten Numb with Mangler is going to be a ***** to Ties.

Yeah, Ten with the ManCannon (totally using that now) is finally a piece worth fielding. Remember how initially excited people were about Lt. Blount's ability to have a guarenteed hit result? Ten has that, only his actually does damage.

All those Interceptor pilots who were so excited to field Soontir with a Autothrusters and a Stealth Device are gong to be cursing you when they see this combo line up across the table.

Good luck getting that shot fel sets up after you, he takes a flank goes full speed first turn comes around you the second and because you have one agility you don't live to see turn four, you do however hand the imp player a third of your points, and he says thanks.

Mango cannon on a scyk is a good deal you get one more attack it generates a crit and it denies range three bonus dice all for four points, HLC is better of course but you may not have 7 points free.

On anything with three attack it's a far worse deal.

Re: Fel

As fast and nimble as he is, I have never seen him completely avoid giving someone at least one range 3 shot against him before he starts doing Soontir Fel things. And that's all Numb needs.

Plus, Numb could take VI, which would force Soontir/Phantoms to move before him.

He can but then your down an ept so you need sensors and his price goes up and up and he's still in a one agility ship which is now target numero uno because it's close to half your squad points.

He's too expensive he always has been and expensive b-wings suck because they die fast, but a 21 point b-wing is great because it's alot of hit points for a reasonable price.

For the exact same reason you don't load farlander with alot, you take PTL or stay on target and unleash him.

B-wings taking crew is thematic but not practical because they'll always have one agility.

Good luck getting that shot fel sets up after you, he takes a flank goes full speed first turn comes around you the second and because you have one agility you don't live to see turn four, you do however hand the imp player a third of your points, and he says thanks.

Mango cannon on a scyk is a good deal you get one more attack it generates a crit and it denies range three bonus dice all for four points, HLC is better of course but you may not have 7 points free.

On anything with three attack it's a far worse deal.

Wait...Fel crosses the entire board and turns around and gets in position behind the B-Wing in two turns with the B-Wing not even bothering to point his way at all?

Even assuming that works, and Fel starts shooting on turn two and gets another shot on turn three, at most he throws eight reds (maybe six or probably seven if the B-Wing is still just letting him follow). And you say that blows up the B-Wing guaranteed before turn four? It seems to me that it will be almost guaranteed to NOT kill it, seeing as the B-Wing doesn't even need to roll evades to survive six or seven dice.

I see your point in your post, but the way you are portraying it as "Fel auto-wins" just makes no sense. It seems more likely that some games (a lot of games if Ten is going after him with intent) Fel will eat a crit or two and die horribly, and some games he will outmaneuver Ten and kill him. I would say Ten is a decent counter, and certainly not a complete waste in that scenario.

what everyone else said. probably not auto include. HLC is just good. If you have the points, thats the awesome one.

You can give ten mangler light, by just equipping a merc copilot for 3.

I'll like it for the crit generation. If Decimators stay popular, crits will be good. When Interceptors with SD and Autothrusters get popular, that first damage getting through as a crit will be good. I mean, HLC is still better in a LOT of cases, but I DID feel some sort of lower cost cannon was necessary. There are a lot of lists that I could not build because of how quickly HLC's fill up your squad points.

Nub with Mangler and Calculation. (For max evilness, even though the second crit can potentially be evaded).

Strange that people seem set on convincing others why one is better than the other. The fact is, they both have their uses and neither is an auto-include.

Ideal situation in my opinion.

RoV

Nub with Mangler and Calculation. (For max evilness, even though the second crit can potentially be evaded).

If Mangler procs why bother activating Calculation? Use the focus to convert more hits or buffer you sole defence dice.

I think HLCs will still be very prevalent since a strong majority of players have practiced with it's R1 drawback.

New Players on the others hand would probably be drawn towards Manglers as their degree of difficulty is far lower. Eventually they would migrate towards HLCs.

Of course there are those pilots that benefit from Crits where Mangler would have a better benefit than HLCs. Which results in a 3pt savings. And 3pts can translated into nearly anything from IPM to PTL to R5-D8 to Ruthlessness to Proxy Mine.

I'm expecting Predator + Mangler to be the most common for those stepping away from HLCs or those preparing before talking the upgrade.

As others have said, if you have the points, HLC is superior. However Mangler is not that a bad a deal for 4 points. It's definitely better than marksmanship for ships that have both EPT's and cannons.

What I've done is have one ship with HLC and one with mangler. The HLC shot softens up the defense and strips shields so the mangler can really do it's job after.

So having played against a Mangler Dash whilst using Soontir Fel with Stealth Device and Autothrusters, my opponent quickly regretted now having only three dice to throw.

Rolling three focused dice against a four green plus evade token plus autothruster ship saw Fel take zero damage throughout the entire game. Also I noticed that since the range 1 ban was no longer a problem, my opponent decided more often then not to just focus and target lock instead of boost/barrel roll like normal which meant I was actually in range 1 more than I normally would be. Which meant the Outrider was destroyed that much faster.

Only played three games against a Mangler Rider with three different opponents and I think it is a good IDEA but once you notice that you are only rolling one or two hits each time instead of the two to three (some times four) you will soon regret it and switch back.

Additionally, Han will still happily fly along side you, ignoring those three die of yours whilst still throwing four back. .

The mangler seems to be the new default choice for most platforms now, surpassing the HLC

Much to learn have you, young Padawan.

Let's not discount the Manger just yet...

Wild Space Fringer+Manger+Outrider is 39 points; making it the cheapest large based 3 attack turret in the game.

YT-2400's, Imperial Kath, Rexler Brath and Ten Numb will appreciate the Mangler Cannon. Combining it with Marksmanship (and maybe even Mercenary Co-Pilot) will be lots of fun.

Why Brath? It kind of negates his ability or makes it redundant at least. If he's landing a crit anyway, your not going to be spending that focus to flip it. If anything it might be better on Vessery.

So having played against a Mangler Dash whilst using Soontir Fel with Stealth Device and Autothrusters, my opponent quickly regretted now having only three dice to throw.

Rolling three focused dice against a four green plus evade token plus autothruster ship saw Fel take zero damage throughout the entire game. Also I noticed that since the range 1 ban was no longer a problem, my opponent decided more often then not to just focus and target lock instead of boost/barrel roll like normal which meant I was actually in range 1 more than I normally would be. Which meant the Outrider was destroyed that much faster.

Only played three games against a Mangler Rider with three different opponents and I think it is a good IDEA but once you notice that you are only rolling one or two hits each time instead of the two to three (some times four) you will soon regret it and switch back.

Additionally, Han will still happily fly along side you, ignoring those three die of yours whilst still throwing four back. .

How was the Dash setup? Was it the super variety with Katarn, Engine, etc? Did he actively try to point the main arc at you to make AT useless? Just curious. You at least would have to be rolling pretty hot dice to not take any damage.

If the Mangler Cannon's crit effect were worthwhile on its own, we'd see Winged Gundark used much more often, and we'd see Marksmanship popping up everywhere. But we don't see that, and in fact we have years of evidence at this point suggesting that crit-fishing is not a strategy that's well compensated in X-wing.

So here's the list of ships that benefit substantially from equipping a Mangler Cannon. I'll update it if someone comes up with an important addition:

• Heavy Scyk Interceptors (it's better than their native 2 Attack)
• YT-2400, with or without the Outrider title (it's better than their native 2 Attack)
• Ten Numb (who can use it to create action-independent unblockable damage without filling the EPT slot)
• Imperial Kath (who can use it to force a choice between taking stress and taking critical damage)
• IG-88B (who can use it as a pseudo-Gunner)
• Krassis Trelix (who can use it as a pseudo-Predator)

Barring specific pilots with crit related abilities, they're going to work best on cheap low PS cannon platforms paired with high PS high damage pilots who can strip shields for them.

A pair of Heavy Scyk Cartel spacers with manglers seems like a bargain for 40 pts

You don't see Winged Gundark because his ability only works at range 1 and there are a bunch of other Tie pilots around that point range that are much better. 1 more point gives you BS or DC. If his ability was range 1-2 and if being PS 5 was worthwhile nowadays, you would see him more.

You don't see Marksmanship a lot because it competes in the very coveted 3 point EPT market. It has to go up against PTL, Predator, OM, etc. It also takes an action which is really a stiff penalty.

All the Mango has to do to throw crits out there is roll booms.

You don't see Winged Gundark because his ability only works at range 1 and there are a bunch of other Tie pilots around that point range that are much better. 1 more point gives you BS or DC. If his ability was range 1-2 and if being PS 5 was worthwhile nowadays, you would see him more.

You don't see Marksmanship a lot because it competes in the very coveted 3 point EPT market. It has to go up against PTL, Predator, OM, etc. It also takes an action which is really a stiff penalty.

All the Mango has to do to throw crits out there is roll booms.

On a ship with 3 Attack it offers the hit-to-crit effect and denies a bonus defense die at Range 3. On a B-wing or Firespray or Lambda, that's just not enough value for 4 points.