I've been thinking about this for awhile now. The mangler seems to be the new default choice for most platforms now, surpassing the HLC. The rationale is this: in most standard format situations the mangler gives far more bang for the buck. Being 3 points less the mangler gives more room for upgrades, has better range brackets, and does only about .25 less hits per round by my math. Yes for some squad designs you may want to go for the HLC, but the mangler will usually be the superior choice.

...does only about .25 less hits per round by my math.

Without focus or target lock:

4 * 0.5 = 2

3 * 0.5 = 1.5

2 - 1.5 = 0.5

With focus or target lock:

4 * 0.75 = 3

3 * 0.75 = 2.25

3 - 2.25 = 0.75

I genuinely don't understand peoples' enthusiasm for the Mangler Cannon; for most* ships with 3 Attack, it's a very bad way to spend 4 points.

(Ten Numb, Imperial Kath, and IG-88B are exceptions. Krassis too, maybe.)

I see the value, but I don't like paying for 1 hit-to-critical-hit. Most of the ships where I use a cannon already have 3 attack dice, so I would rather pay for a different offensive upgrade, like predator. When it comes to cannons, the extra die with the HLC is just more appealing.

dont see a ton of value in the cannon either apart from select pilot abilities and scyk

range 3 bonus is nice, but the crit --> hit is such a random benefit (does it hit shields, does it draw a good crit?) that I'd be loath to drop 4 points on it

I don't think the Mangler is still close to the HLC, because of the sheer number of dice involved. It's simply easier to dodge a three-dice attack than it is to dodge a four-dice attack. The range-1 limitation on the HLC was never a problem because most of the ships that could carry it would roll four dice at range 1 anyway. If you roll the maximum number of hits with an HLC, that target is going to take damage unless they can roll at least three evade results, and/or an evade token. It takes a very good roll to dodge that.

The Mangler can be dodged with two evade results and one evade token. That's a much easier result to achieve.

I think there may be a few cases where the mangler will be preferred, but the HLC is a staple of cannon builds for one very simple reason: 4 red dice. If you look at all the cannon-toting ships (Firespray, B-wing, shuttle, defender, YT-2400, scyk, agressor) Only the YT and scyk have less than 3 normal red dice on attack. That means that for all the other ships, the only benefit to having a mangler cannon is no extra evade dice at range 3 and one hit to a crit. Additionally, there is no point to a range 1 attack with the cannon, as you will shoot with 4 native red dice. So, the mangler may be better for the yt or scyk, you have to have a really good reason to take the mangler on any other ship. No, the HLC isn't going anywhere

Mangler Cannon...will make the 2400s better. Other stuff not so much.

The Mangler is going to be the number one go to on the Outrider. You lose the donut-hole and you'll be throwing crits out like candy. Super Dash is now 55 points.

Great on Leebo and OFS too. OFS with Mang and title is 39 points for a 3 attack crit-hitting turret. Sick...

Mangler will not completely replace the HLC, but will have a role (making it a decent card). The crit specialists will be better, the Outrider will lose the donut hole and be an auto-include, and the 20-point Mangler Scyk isn't a bad filler ship. Otherwise, except in tight points lists, you are probably looking at HLC as the better buy. That's still plenty to justify the card as a solid addition, but not replace the HLC.

I don't know if I'd call it auto-include on an Outrider. Maybe on the lower-PS ships. You lose the donut-hole, but at that point you're basically flying a Falcon with more crits and fewer crew slots. Part of the joy of Super Dash is that four-dice attack, even with the donut hole.

the Outrider will lose the donut hole and be an auto-include

I think it will be a choice, but I don't think it will be an auto-include. It will depend a lot on what other people are flying and how easily you can keep them out of the donut.

I don't think Dash will be missing that extra die. He'll be able to use the TL action more as he won't be having to always boost & BR to get out of range 1. Those 3 attack dice will likely have TL + Focus a lot of the time. Those Crits will be highly accurate. Dash with HLC will probably be better against Rebel builds and Mangler against Imperial and Scum. Its sometimes quite difficult to keep Ties out of the donut hole. X-wings and B-wings not so much.

Personally I can't wait to try a mangler cannon on Ten Numb.

Sometimes you really want 4 hits and a lot of HLC builds can do it on more than half the shots. The odds of getting a shot through on 3-agility targets are a LOT better with the HLC. More than 3 points worth imo.

Mangler is awful. If you are gonna go cannon, go HLC. If not, then go home. Your gonna go Mangler and roll a hit and a crit and your opponent is gonna roll 2 evades and you'll be like "what!" and he'll be like "MmmmHmmm".

I figured you would use the Mangler for 2-attack or lower ships, and the HLC remains clearly better for anything with a base of 3 or more.

It doesn't replace the HLC. For many of the 3-attack ships in the game, a Mangler cannon is very nearly redundant.

Mangler is only comparable to HLC on ships with 2 attack dice (YT-2400, Scyk) or abilities that synergize with cannons (IG-88B, Krassis Trelix).

On 3 attack dice ships like the Firespray, Lambda, Defender and B-Wing, you are wasting 4 points because the only bonus you are getting is 1 less defense die at range 3.

So I think you were forgetting about those other 4 ships when you jumped to the conclusion that Mangler is strictly better than the HLC.

A lot of the comments I've seen here are valid and I agree with some of them. Consider this:

Imagine that Mangler Cannon was released in a vacuum. It was the only card released in Wave 6 and the current game did not change otherwise. Mangler Cannon could likely find its place in a few lists. For instance, I think it might make Captain Jonus get played more if you put Manglers on 2 Firesprays. Maybe not. The Outrider is a good choice, too, at least for the lower PS ones like Leebo and the Fringer that can't avoid the donut hole as well. AND, because of the prevalence of turrets, most highly maneuverable ships that have 3 agility and are strong against ships with forward facing weapons, are not played much, IE the interceptor and A-wing. The Mangler Cannon could certainly do some damage to an interceptor if it caught it in a shot, especially considering the way my Evade Dice treat me. HLC can do MORE damage, mind you, and that is a valuable consideration, but the Mangler can make critical damage more likely on ships that can't handle taking them. Speaking of which, I think the 5 Scyks with Manglers list that people are talking about would do murder to Decimator lists, considering what an issue Etahn can give them when he is escorting a swarmlet or formation.

But, that is not the case. And I think there is one card that, as it is released at the same time, will deny the Mangler Cannon its moment to shine: Autothrusters. And don't consider for a moment that I am complaining about Autothrusters. The TIE Interceptor is, and has been since I started playing the game in late 2013, my favorite ship. I absolutely can't wait to get AT Soontir on the table and see how well he fares against all of those fat turrets. It will make them much more resilient should they have to face a 3- or 4- die attack they can't arc dodge to avoid. So, considering that the hope is that AT makes those 3-agility ships more durable against turrets, and one of the largest draws of the Mangler Cannon is the Outrider turret, it will be significantly weaker against the "New Interceptor" than the HLC Outrider, at least in damage output if not in dodging ability. Outrider players will likely keep their HLC, because when they can get shots against those AT interceptors, they'll be much more likely to get damage through.

To many players, higher offense is more powerful than higher defense. Many will hope they can pop Soontir early at long range with that HLC, which is less likely with the Mangler.

I don't know if I'd call it auto-include on an Outrider. Maybe on the lower-PS ships. You lose the donut-hole, but at that point you're basically flying a Falcon with more crits and fewer crew slots. Part of the joy of Super Dash is that four-dice attack, even with the donut hole.

I thought the main joy of Super Dash was the insane positioning tricks you get to do with a large ship that can Barrel Roll and Boost in the same turn. Fat Han and Chiraneau can both roll 4 accurate attack dice by boosting into range 1 (often while arc-dodging), but only Dash can move like Dash, and being able to move like Dash and shoot whatever you want is going to make him so much better, I am going to be so happy having the Mangler on Dash instead of the HLC.

But maybe that's just my perspective.

Outrider players will likely keep their HLC, because when they can get shots against those AT interceptors, they'll be much more likely to get damage through.

To many players, higher offense is more powerful than higher defense. Many will hope they can pop Soontir early at long range with that HLC, which is less likely with the Mangler.

I'd much rather take the 3v4 Mangler with a chance to crit at Soontir then the 0v4 HLC shot.

Yeah, HLC is 0v4 against Soontir because that extra attack dice doesn't matter when he just stays at range 1 or range 4 of your Outrider for the whole game. HLC Dash has the same problem against Fat Han, it's so easy for them to latch on to range 1 and not let go until they've dealt 6 damage or so.

Why take the mancannon when you can tale marksmanship? Unless you need the EPT slot, there's not much of a reason

Nothing can replace throwing 4 attack dice with no range bonus for your opponent.

I figured you would use the Mangler for 2-attack or lower ships, and the HLC remains clearly better for anything with a base of 3 or more.

It doesn't replace the HLC. For many of the 3-attack ships in the game, a Mangler cannon is very nearly redundant.

Sadly, the only 2 attack cannon bearing ship is the Scyk

Everything else is a matter of synergy. Nub and imperial Kath will more than likely enjoy it (esp Nub since it frees him up for PS 10), and Outriders will enjoy it (39 points for an outrider mangler Fringer, making it at least considerably cheaper than other large turrets that aren't gimped)

Why take the mancannon when you can tale marksmanship? Unless you need the EPT slot, there's not much of a reason

Marksmanship kind of sucks. Its offensive only and you have to roll an eyeball for it to actually work. I much rather equip a Mangler and focus for my actions. Worse case I use the focus for defense. Numb and Kath will like the Mangler better. Ten Numb with Mangler is going to be a ***** to Ties.

Why take the mancannon when you can tale marksmanship? Unless you need the EPT slot, there's not much of a reason

Marksmanship kind of sucks. Its offensive only and you have to roll an eyeball for it to actually work. I much rather equip a Mangler and focus for my actions. Worse case I use the focus for defense. Numb and Kath will like the Mangler better. Ten Numb with Mangler is going to be a ***** to Ties.

Yeah, Ten with the ManCannon (totally using that now) is finally a piece worth fielding. Remember how initially excited people were about Lt. Blount's ability to have a guarenteed hit result? Ten has that, only his actually does damage.

All those Interceptor pilots who were so excited to field Soontir with a Autothrusters and a Stealth Device are gong to be cursing you when they see this combo line up across the table.