I'm been concerned about this for a bit, Here is a quote from the new article: It Is the Future You See
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/2/19/it-is-the-future-you-see-wave-6/

As we look forward to the introduction of the new Scum and Villainy faction, we X-Wing players face an unusual situation. The sheer number of pilots and upgrades presents a dizzying array of options, and it’s hard to know where to start building squads for the new metagame.

I guess that's my point. While most of the rules are straight forward. Slowly we are adding complication with things like nested triggers and upgrades just to name one.

A casual (not a one time) play might never know ever decent combinations without 'net decking'. Without a book of squads it could take as long to build a squad as it does to play. You can no longer just grab a ship and it's card. The A-Wing and soon the TIE Advanced will always take/need an upgrade to be "balanced". The default build is ever more complex.

When you add the sheer number of upgrades on the table per ship now you have more to remember than ever before and that's if you knew what to take.

And... many are still hoping for yet more tweaks and 'so-called' fixes to balance everything.

The game is as difficult as you make it man. If you are a casual player make it casual.....if you're a tournament player or organized game player look for the complexity. It is no different than any other game. I know people that play MtG casually and the style they use is extremely fun for all of them.....yet if a hardcore player were to see how they play they'd probably scream!

Just enjoy it how you want to. Because if you are a casual player who worrys about complex game triggers and tactics....then it sounds like you are not really a casual player.

It's a game that's spreading, for the most part, when experienced players introduce new players; part of the role of expertise is to filter the universe of options down to a more manageable set. So I don't really see the problem.

well as soon as you are optimising and putting together 'default' and 'complex' builds one could argue that one has left the realm of casual play. Don't you think?

the game isn't getting more complicated. The game has been given far more potential to be an incredibly intricate affair.

You can still smash Xs against Ties and have a ball, or you could take said ties up against a phantom

I am more a casual player, and I tend to agree with you. Having all the options is cool, but overwhelming. I will again plug my "horsepower limited" ruleset that simply bans everything after wave 3, both ships and upgrades.

easier for new players, and casual players like myself, and it does not keep the "unlimited" game from continuing onward in growth and complexity.

I think they should have some limited tourneys like this as well. I for one would prefer such a tourney, though i like the new stuff too.

The sheer number of pilots and upgrades presents a dizzying array of options, and it’s hard to know where to start building squads for the new metagame.

This only becomes an issue when casual players decide to step up to non-casual play.

As long as you're playing in your own little casual group, then the kind of things that Paul thinks about doesn't really matter much.

The number of upgrades are growing, but they simply offer more options, and if you use a builder like Voidstate or Yet Another, then it's not like you really need to keep track of what goes where, you are limited on what options you have already.

As Bjorn said, the game is only as complicated as you want it to be. I intentionally play with generic pilots most of the time just because I never remember to use pilot abilities, card combos, etc. Having only one or two upgrades on some generic pilots, and flying only one or two types of ships makes it much easier for me to play.

You can no longer just grab a ship and it's card. The A-Wing and soon the TIE Advanced will always take/need an upgrade to be "balanced". The default build is ever more complex.

If you are playing so much that you are noticing those balance issues, you have already been exposed to the cards to fix them, so I don't really see a problem.

here is a question: do you think that basic squad stands a chance against souped up phantoms, fat hans, fat dash, etc? i am genuinely asking the question. It seems like new or casual players are sort of discouraged from playing in tourneys because they are at a disadvantage, and not just the "new guy" disadvantage, but there is a definite list building learning curve. I am not whining, I am glad the game continues to grow, and I play in tourneys and do OK, but I am a little concerned about new players who might have an interest in competitive play. Just putting this out for opinions, not really ruling on it myself.

How many would be interested in a seperate tournament that was capped at wave 3? Good idea? Bad idea?

Fire away

Compared to other game systems nope not really just go compare x-wings core rule book to some others(just the rules section) you'll see the difference.

Any new rules are included with the ship and are fairly clear, ffg is also good with FAQ's compared to say GW.

where playing 6th ed 40k my group would have to check the rule book a couple of times a game in x-wing we can go month's without a rules question coming up.

The sheer number of pilots and upgrades presents a dizzying array of options, and it’s hard to know where to start building squads for the new metagame.

This only becomes an issue when casual players decide to step up to non-casual play.

As long as you're playing in your own little casual group, then the kind of things that Paul thinks about doesn't really matter much.

The number of upgrades are growing, but they simply offer more options, and if you use a builder like Voidstate or Yet Another, then it's not like you really need to keep track of what goes where, you are limited on what options you have already.

Exactly. If you are a casual player, and you have been tinkering around with some of these issues ask a player that does play more organized events. I have learned alot form players all over. Even though I didn't play at nationals just being at Gencon and watching has helped me tremendously. As well as smaller events that I have gone and played in.

Also for a group of casual players find a local store that hold regular tourneys, like the store I play out of, and get a feel for the knowledge they have to share.

here is a question: do you think that basic squad stands a chance against souped up phantoms, fat hans, fat dash, etc? i am genuinely asking the question. It seems like new or casual players are sort of discouraged from playing in tourneys because they are at a disadvantage, and not just the "new guy" disadvantage, but there is a definite list building learning curve. I am not whining, I am glad the game continues to grow, and I play in tourneys and do OK, but I am a little concerned about new players who might have an interest in competitive play. Just putting this out for opinions, not really ruling on it myself.

Yes, there's a learning curve with list-building, because list-building is a skill that's important for success in the game.

No, that doesn't mean that a well-designed list using only Waves 1-3 will necessarily perform poorly in the current environment. (For instance.)

How many would be interested in a seperate tournament that was capped at wave 3? Good idea? Bad idea?

The idea that game balance was better back in the day is an appealing one, but it's false. It's not a particularly bad idea, but it's a solution in search of a problem.

here is a question: do you think that basic squad stands a chance against souped up phantoms, fat hans, fat dash, etc? i am genuinely asking the question. It seems like new or casual players are sort of discouraged from playing in tourneys because they are at a disadvantage, and not just the "new guy" disadvantage, but there is a definite list building learning curve. I am not whining, I am glad the game continues to grow, and I play in tourneys and do OK, but I am a little concerned about new players who might have an interest in competitive play. Just putting this out for opinions, not really ruling on it myself.

How many would be interested in a seperate tournament that was capped at wave 3? Good idea? Bad idea?

Fire away

I recently played against a list that was 1 Bandit Squad, and 4 Blue Squad. No upgrades at all. My Store Championship last table match against that list came down to my Falcon only having 2 hull left when I won. That ZBBBB list chewed through the other players that day. So yeah....a basic all PS2 no upgrade list can do well. It has even won some Store Championships as well. It all depends on how well you can and do fly it.

Also I was flying a Fat Han.....and that ZBBBB list still makes me shudder.

Also well said Vorp.

Also, apropos of nothing: wouldn't it be nice if FFG occasionally published articles by experienced players that listed example squads? For instance, someone like Paul Heaver might be recruited to help new players navigate the game's increasing complexity.

Not too complicated in my opinion. The amount of options means you can play the game so many times without playing the same thing twice.

If your only options were rock, paper, and scissors. This game would not have the life that it does. The fact that so many options work against so many other things is good.

here is a question: do you think that basic squad stands a chance against souped up phantoms, fat hans, fat dash, etc?

The answer is yes. Hothie wrote up a number of articles and posted them on TC about how he uses Tie Fighters to beat Phantoms, and the swarm has always been the natural predator of Han fat or otherwise.

A number of people have posted about their success with basic A-Wing or X-Wing lists. Myself I did ok at a store championship with 4 X-Wings

but there is a definite list building learning curve.

There is, but there's a learning curve for pretty much every game. List building however is one of the easier things to master, flying that list well is normally a bit harder. But both things are part of the skill in X-Wing, so it makes sense that there's a curve for both.

but I am a little concerned about new players who might have an interest in competitive play.

Consider someone new to Chess and wanting to play in a tournament. They face the same kinds of issues. Or poker tournaments, or Netrunner LCG, or Risk... All games have a curve and stepping into the competitive play, is a step up for pretty much every activity.

How many would be interested in a seperate tournament that was capped at wave 3?

I think the better question is how many would want to effectively throw away everything from wave 4 and beyond, and never use them again. A lot of people may be interested in an Original Trilogy type tournament, but I don't think many would find that to be what they want to do for every game from now on.

here is a question: do you think that basic squad stands a chance against souped up phantoms, fat hans, fat dash, etc? i am genuinely asking the question. It seems like new or casual players are sort of discouraged from playing in tourneys because they are at a disadvantage, and not just the "new guy" disadvantage, but there is a definite list building learning curve. I am not whining, I am glad the game continues to grow, and I play in tourneys and do OK, but I am a little concerned about new players who might have an interest in competitive play. Just putting this out for opinions, not really ruling on it myself.

How many would be interested in a seperate tournament that was capped at wave 3? Good idea? Bad idea?

Fire away

I think the new players will struggle, which is normal. A lot of the problems I see even comes down from knowing which actions to use in which situations. They'll take Target Locks with their X-Wings or Evades with their TIE Fighters when the Focus action is so much more flexible. They'll load their squads up with torpedoes, and then they'll forget to even use them.

For my part, when playing with newer players, I leave the Phantoms in the box (I do that anyway) and try to run a fairly straightforward list:

Wedge Antilles

Wes Jenson with VI

Jek Porkins with VI and R3A2

Bandit Squadron Pilot

Just three X-Wing aces, a droid, and a cheap filler. About as basic of a setup as you can get. I'm also much more forgiving about timing and letting them take back moves, while explaining why that Evade action they just took with that Academy Pilot was not a good choice.

here is a question: do you think that basic squad stands a chance against souped up phantoms, fat hans, fat dash, etc? i am genuinely asking the question. It seems like new or casual players are sort of discouraged from playing in tourneys because they are at a disadvantage, and not just the "new guy" disadvantage, but there is a definite list building learning curve. I am not whining, I am glad the game continues to grow, and I play in tourneys and do OK, but I am a little concerned about new players who might have an interest in competitive play. Just putting this out for opinions, not really ruling on it myself.

How many would be interested in a seperate tournament that was capped at wave 3? Good idea? Bad idea?

Fire away

Fat Han and a well flown Whisper are arguably cause for concern, but Dash? The Donut Menace completely failed to materialise.

here is a question: do you think that basic squad stands a chance against souped up phantoms, fat hans, fat dash, etc? i am genuinely asking the question. It seems like new or casual players are sort of discouraged from playing in tourneys because they are at a disadvantage, and not just the "new guy" disadvantage, but there is a definite list building learning curve. I am not whining, I am glad the game continues to grow, and I play in tourneys and do OK, but I am a little concerned about new players who might have an interest in competitive play. Just putting this out for opinions, not really ruling on it myself.

How many would be interested in a seperate tournament that was capped at wave 3? Good idea? Bad idea?

Fire away

Fat Han and a well flown Whisper are arguably cause for concern, but Dash? The Donut Menace completely failed to materialise.

Once S&V is out the 2400s might get alil scarier.

There's a learning curve in EVERY game. Most top shelf boardgames I play are considerably more complex than X-Wing (even at this point) and they are self-contained aside from a FAQ document. The other part is that casual play is essentially a lawless realm where nothing really matters if you get the rules skewed. The bigger concern would be if the game is getting too complex with too many little obscure rules and abilities that it slows down competitive play, since there is generally something at stake and less time to work through the details. That being said, I don't think it is, but with each new wave and new fix, it does demand more and more from the player base, mostly to avoid shenanigans.

It seems a little weird to suggest that there are so many options a new player won't stumble upon the "most powerful" combinations themselves.

If you're flying casual, does "the best" matter? No. Put Advanced Proton Torps on your 2 X-Wing Squadron with Luke and Wedge with all the trimmings. Have fun.

Buy the ships you like the look of, and put the cards that come with them, on them.

If you want to go to tournaments, then yes, it might be a good idea to do some research beforehand. Like every single other hobby or sport ever. You're entering a more advanced field of play, so you need to prepare accordingly, if that's what you want to do.

So long as you don't have someone playing tournament calibre lists against a new guy running XYA or something, everyone should be having fun, right?

Compared to other game systems nope not really just go compare x-wings core rule book to some others(just the rules section) you'll see the difference.

Any new rules are included with the ship and are fairly clear, ffg is also good with FAQ's compared to say GW.

where playing 6th ed 40k my group would have to check the rule book a couple of times a game in x-wing we can go month's without a rules question coming up.

Compared to any other tabletop miniatures game I know of XWing is the model of simple yet complex rules and ease of play.

For those who agree with the op I would challenge them to pick up a rules set for Flames of War or 40k and try a casual game of them.

X wing is so superior and comparatively sophisticated as to make the others clunky torments.

And I like Flames of war.

I think Star Trek Attack Wing has much more variety and variation and it still makes for great casual play... I don't see more variety being a bad thing for casual play at all.

The great thing about a card based upgrade system like X-Wing has is that you DON'T need to have everything to play casually. contrary to what the OP said, a casual player can play A-Wings and TIE Advanceds quite happily without ever being made aware of the fixes for those ships.

As some have pointed out, the problem is when someone wants to transition into the broader competitive meta. But still, I wouldn't expect to dive into an established tournament scene and be competitive right away. Most people would, I imagine, expect to lose their first few/several tournaments rather badly, but doing so will expose them to the important upgrades that they might be missing. That's part of the learnign experience of tournaments.