You know, I think 4x Enforcers is going to be a completely legitimate list. 5 HP behind 3 AGI is a tough ship, and 4x 3 red dice hits like a truck. I think you start with a slow approach in jousting formation, then break up and knife-fight on the merge. The dial is suited perfectly for that.

I would not expect a Starviper to go down in the first round of shooting, so PS1 is less of an issue. In a knife-fight, PS1 has advantages with blocking at close range as well.

5x Alpha Squadron Pilots compares very closely to 4x PS1 StarVipers.

To Biophysical's point, PS2 B-wings can pull this off at PS2. It really comes down to "can 3 green dice take the place of 3 shields?"

The dial on the Viper is better and the gunnery is as good.

Could be interesting....

Honestly, I see a nice role for the Starviper. With Autothrusters, it will be very, very annoying for a turret to kill one. Even more than an Interceptor, due to the built in extra health.

Sadly the Starviper has no evade action, though.

I have been trying out the StarViper for a while now and I am pretty impressed with the named pilots. The dial at first glance isn't amazing but honestly it has some surprising moves. The 1 maneuvers are incredibly impressive when paired with advanced sensors, using barrel roll to move backwards initially and then using a 1 move allows you to basically pivot on the spot which is INCREDIBLY FUN. Guri really is the stand out pilot for me, however her pilot skill is just too low to be as much of a threat as she could be. I really wish they would have upped both her and Xizor by one point each.

The game has been driving more and more to fewer ships with more upgrades and in a weird way I like that. However the biggest mistake of the StarViper is that the PS3 generic doesn't have an EPT.

The game has been driving more and more to fewer ships with more upgrades and in a weird way I like that. However the biggest mistake of the StarViper is that the PS3 generic doesn't have an EPT.

Only by virtue that there's only so many ways to make generic upgrade-less pilots

S&V may well be changing that around a bit with all the illict Zs and the generic Ys with turrets/titles/aggros

I think the problem is the pilot abilities and Pilot Skills. Highly mobile ship like the Starviper wants to have access PS 9 and the ability to BR and Boost in the same turn. That makes PS 5 and PS 7 super awkward.

A highly mobile ship doesn't want to be stuck next to another ship, so Xizor's ability is really awkward, and Guri's ability gives her some action economy but only some of the time and she is stuck at PS 5.

IMO, they should have just made them both cost 1 more and be PS 7 and PS 8. I think they were worried that adding another super arc-dodger to the game on top of Soontir, Whisper and Dash would frustrate the more casual players.

IMO, they should have just made them both cost 1 more and be PS 7 and PS 8. I think they were worried that adding another super arc-dodger to the game on top of Soontir, Whisper and Dash would frustrate the more casual players.

Small caveat, though

the Star Viper is not built like a hypermobile ship (definetly not on the dial, big lack of greens) which is why I compared it to the e-wing. It's more of a superiority fighter, only less superiority than the e and more mobile.

Xizor characterizes this very well thanks to his ability. On one hand, you can go nuts with sensors and his dial. On the other, you can use sensors to guarantee actions even when you bump into squaddies who will then be guaranteed shields.

You know, I think 4x Enforcers is going to be a completely legitimate list. 5 HP behind 3 AGI is a tough ship, and 4x 3 red dice hits like a truck. I think you start with a slow approach in jousting formation, then break up and knife-fight on the merge. The dial is suited perfectly for that.

I would not expect a Starviper to go down in the first round of shooting, so PS1 is less of an issue. In a knife-fight, PS1 has advantages with blocking at close range as well.

5x Alpha Squadron Pilots compares very closely to 4x PS1 StarVipers.

Starvipers have 5 more hit points, 4 of them shields.

Ha ha, it's not the first time I have said that the generic Star Viper is overpriced...

I really like the generic Star Vipers, just not for threir cost. It is hard to justify taking one over a BTL-A4 Y-wing with Ion + R4 for the same cost. I could maybe see myself taking the occasional Star Viper for 23 points, which competes in cost directly with the BTL-A4 Ion Y-wing without R4.

Course, your assuming costs in a perfect never ending joust, and the s-loop value is quite difficult to quantify, as is access to auto thrusters. boost + barrel on the same ship is worth a lot to me...

The S-loop is certainly a variable that cannot be expounded mathematically, but Autothrusters can absolutely be justified with numbers. The only variable would be against ships without turrets, but if you are outside a turret-less ship's arc, you are not taking fire, meaning AT is unnecessary in that situation. But, when you figure your dice average, you simply count blank results on one die as hits. Without focus, you have a 75% chance to get an evade on that die, as opposed to the usual 37.5%. With a focus, you have a 100% chance.

Yeah, but how many range three shots are you taking? How often will you face a turret? It's more positionally dependent than predator, and nearly as controllable as outmaneuver. Sure, we can guess at its maximum effectiveness (active on all shots till the host ship is gone" but determining the coefficient to that value is murky.

How often will you face a turret?

Going by the games I've played this wave....I'd say every one game out of one game

We really shouldn't underestimate the usefulness of the range 3 evade (esp not will all this cannons). I'm sure juggler won't agree that just getting one trigger out of it is the same as a shield upgrade, but given my relationship with the dice I'm sure as **** counting it as that.

Considering the speed of the viper (+ boost), I can comfortably say you should get shot at from range 3 at least more than once

Guri does have an awkward pilot skill for movement, but I think you can play her much like a PS3 Phantom by using the Virago/Enhanced Scopes combo for blocking. Add in some Intel Agents in the list and she could be really annoying to play against.

I like Guri best because she doesn't suffer from action starvation like the other pilots do (even Xizor).

The sloop has a distinct advantage over the kturn, sloops are in pairs, and this any time you could perform a sloop in either direction, you create a 50/50 mixup, simmilar to, but more effective than multiple kturns as a mixup.

It also becomes a harder ship to tail when the opponents guess is incorrect. The lateral movement also makes it harder to block, especially in jousting situations.

Not that it's flat better than a k turn, it's harder to judge distance and makes it easier for an opponent to escape the tail, as it doesn't give you the opponents angle.

You know, I think 4x Enforcers is going to be a completely legitimate list. 5 HP behind 3 AGI is a tough ship, and 4x 3 red dice hits like a truck. I think you start with a slow approach in jousting formation, then break up and knife-fight on the merge. The dial is suited perfectly for that.

I would not expect a Starviper to go down in the first round of shooting, so PS1 is less of an issue. In a knife-fight, PS1 has advantages with blocking at close range as well.

5x Alpha Squadron Pilots compares very closely to 4x PS1 StarVipers.

Starvipers have 5 more hit points, 4 of them shields.

4 StarVipers have 33% more hit points than 5 Interceptors, but this translates into a little less than 33% more durability when you factor in the final kill shot. 5 Interceptors throw 25% more dice than the 4 StarVipers. And when in doubt, more ships are better, so overall it's almost exactly a wash. But the Interceptor squad only costs 90% of the StarVipers.

You never see a 5x Alpha list, but maybe 5 Alphas with autothrusters will be a thing. Having autothrusters would be a distinct advantage for the Interceptors though, relative to the StarVipers.

The Starviper definetely follow the receipe of new ships established in wave 4: For competitive play, you are better with the named pilots than the generics.

Except for the Z-95 which was needed as the filler ship of the rebellion, the only pilots we see of wave 4 ship is named one.

Phantom: Whisper everywhere, some Echo and some sparse Sigma here and there.

E-Wing: Corran.... and that's pretty much it.

Tie Defender: Brath and Vessery, no Delta or Onyx.

So, given that the title is what makes the Starviper really shine and is only available to Guri and Xizor (which makes sense from a thematic sense), I do believe that the only Starvipers we'll see on the tournament scene will be the named ones. So, is it a formula we should expect from now on for elite craft?

Because as much fun as the ship looks like, I question the efficiency of a pure Starviper team. And if I'm to take only one, might as well take a named pilot: Guri in general because she has a very nice ability, or Xizor if I build around him. Kinda sound like Brath and Vessery, one named pilot that can go into any list, and one very good if you build around him.

You know, I think 4x Enforcers is going to be a completely legitimate list. 5 HP behind 3 AGI is a tough ship, and 4x 3 red dice hits like a truck. I think you start with a slow approach in jousting formation, then break up and knife-fight on the merge. The dial is suited perfectly for that.

I would not expect a Starviper to go down in the first round of shooting, so PS1 is less of an issue. In a knife-fight, PS1 has advantages with blocking at close range as well.

5x Alpha Squadron Pilots compares very closely to 4x PS1 StarVipers.

Starvipers have 5 more hit points, 4 of them shields.

4 StarVipers have 33% more hit points than 5 Interceptors, but this translates into a little less than 33% more durability when you factor in the final kill shot. 5 Interceptors throw 25% more dice than the 4 StarVipers. And when in doubt, more ships are better, so overall it's almost exactly a wash. But the Interceptor squad only costs 90% of the StarVipers.

You never see a 5x Alpha list, but maybe 5 Alphas with autothrusters will be a thing. Having autothrusters would be a distinct advantage for the Interceptors though, relative to the StarVipers.

Pre-autothrusters I made up a list of Backstabber + 4 Alphas, with the 12 remaining points being either Stealth Devices or Hull Upgrades for the Alphas. You could make them into an Academy, I guess, if you wanted to. (Although now that I think about it, Backstabber as a Black Squadron Pilot with DTF might be interesting to keep the Alpha's firepower going). If I could ever find an Interceptor pack, let alone 4 or 5...

Anyway, I think they'd fly a lot differently. The Starvipers can get more shots off on approach with that 1-straight, and can maneuver in tight spaces better thanks to the 1-bank.

I really like the generic Star Vipers, just not for their cost. It is hard to justify taking one over a BTL-A4 Y-wing with Ion + R4 for the same cost. I could maybe see myself taking the occasional Star Viper for 23 points, which competes in cost directly with the BTL-A4 Ion Y-wing without R4.

One of them can actually move...

The Y-wing, obviously, because the StarVipers spend all their time Ion'ed!

A turreted Y might Ion a Starviper, true.

A BTL-A4 needs to actually aim at one. With a Y-Wing dial. Which has the smallest number of green maneuvers in the game, coupled with Red 3 turns, no 1 turns, and a Red 4 forward.

As the HWK and Shuttle dials are debatably the worst and second worst in the game, the Y-Wing's is definitely 3rd.

Now, if you're about to suggest adding an Unhinged/R2 Astromech to fix that issue, you've sacrificed your ability to buff both attacks, have caught up in price to me, and still can't outfly me due to my Boost and Barrel-Roll actions (and arguably still superior dial, due to me having tighter turning and Segnors').

Also, multiple (weak) attacks maximize the effectiveness of my higher agility.

...I remain unimpressed by the BTL-A4.

Why do people keep calling the Starviper a "highly mobile ship"!?!? Does it have a good dial? Yes. But let us compare it to dials of ACTUAL highly mobile ships:

First the Starviper:

Notice it's lack of diverse green movements.

Compare to an Interceptor:

Full range of 2s are green!

The A-wing is similar, but has a green 5 as well.

The Starviper is a mobile ship in the same regard that the E-wing is because of its ability to take Advanced Sensors, but is not as naturally mobile as a PTL A-wing or Interceptor, and DEFINITELY not as a Phantom. The Starviper will have the same problems as the E-wing; more mobile than most, but not quite a flanker. Tougher than said flankers, but not a tank.

I really like the generic StarVipers, just not for their cost. It is hard to justify taking one over a BTL-A4 Y-wing with Ion + R4 for the same cost. I could maybe see myself taking the occasional Star Viper for 23 points, which competes in cost directly with the BTL-A4 Ion Y-wing without R4.

One of them can actually move...

The Y-wing, obviously, because the StarVipers spend all their time Ion'ed!

A turreted Y might Ion a Starviper, true.

A BTL-A4 needs to actually aim at one. With a Y-Wing dial. Which has the smallest number of green maneuvers in the game, coupled with Red 3 turns, no 1 turns, and a Red 4 forward.

As the HWK and Shuttle dials are debatably the worst and second worst in the game, the Y-Wing's is definitely 3rd.

Now, if you're about to suggest adding an Unhinged/R2 Astromech to fix that issue, you've sacrificed your ability to buff both attacks, have caught up in price to me, and still can't outfly me due to my Boost and Barrel-Roll actions (and arguably still superior dial, due to me having tighter turning and Segnors').

Also, multiple (weak) attacks maximize the effectiveness of my higher agility.

...I remain unimpressed by the BTL-A4.

The dial on the Viper is, in some ways better than an Interceptor because the Viper has all the 1 maneuvers. It has less green and does not have a 5 straight, but the Segnors Loop is an excellent addition even without Adv. Sensors. The Viper is more hardy than an Interceptor as well, but it isn't designed to use PtL, other upgrades suit it better.

It is a medium fighter and needs to fill that roll. 3 of the PS3 Generics with the correct upgrades should do quite well, but the strength will be in using Virago on one of the named pilots and adding in a mix of support ships, my favorites for that roll being a named Z and 3 Black Sun Soldiers.

The dial on the Viper is, in some ways better than an Interceptor because the Viper has all the 1 maneuvers. It has less green and does not have a 5 straight, but the Segnors Loop is an excellent addition even without Adv. Sensors. The Viper is more hardy than an Interceptor as well, but it isn't designed to use PtL, other upgrades suit it better.

It is a medium fighter and needs to fill that roll. 3 of the PS3 Generics with the correct upgrades should do quite well, but the strength will be in using Virago on one of the named pilots and adding in a mix of support ships, my favorites for that roll being a named Z and 3 Black Sun Soldiers.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I'm not sure I'll ever run more than one of them though. I, of course, will own two of them just so I can try the Xizor/Guri combo.

I really like the generic Star Vipers, just not for their cost. It is hard to justify taking one over a BTL-A4 Y-wing with Ion + R4 for the same cost. I could maybe see myself taking the occasional Star Viper for 23 points, which competes in cost directly with the BTL-A4 Ion Y-wing without R4.

One of them can actually move...

The Y-wing, obviously, because the StarVipers spend all their time Ion'ed!

A turreted Y might Ion a Starviper, true.

A BTL-A4 needs to actually aim at one. With a Y-Wing dial. Which has the smallest number of green maneuvers in the game, coupled with Red 3 turns, no 1 turns, and a Red 4 forward.

As the HWK and Shuttle dials are debatably the worst and second worst in the game, the Y-Wing's is definitely 3rd.

Now, if you're about to suggest adding an Unhinged/R2 Astromech to fix that issue, you've sacrificed your ability to buff both attacks, have caught up in price to me, and still can't outfly me due to my Boost and Barrel-Roll actions (and arguably still superior dial, due to me having tighter turning and Segnors').

Also, multiple (weak) attacks maximize the effectiveness of my higher agility.

...I remain unimpressed by the BTL-A4.

Multiple attacks still does OK against higher agility targets because you are more likely to spend your focus token on defense for the first attack, and the Y-wing only needs to get one damage through on the 2nd attack. The 2nd attack will, at a minimum, be modified by a Target Lock, and possibly focus then target lock to reroll any blanks.

The PS1's will have a hard if not impossible time avoiding arcs from spread out warthogs. PS5 Guri with advanced sensors is another story.

Time to get some more test games in on vassal and then on the table when Scum comes out next week!

You know, I think 4x Enforcers is going to be a completely legitimate list. 5 HP behind 3 AGI is a tough ship, and 4x 3 red dice hits like a truck. I think you start with a slow approach in jousting formation, then break up and knife-fight on the merge. The dial is suited perfectly for that.

I would not expect a Starviper to go down in the first round of shooting, so PS1 is less of an issue. In a knife-fight, PS1 has advantages with blocking at close range as well.

5x Alpha Squadron Pilots compares very closely to 4x PS1 StarVipers.

Starvipers have 5 more hit points, 4 of them shields.

4 StarVipers have 33% more hit points than 5 Interceptors, but this translates into a little less than 33% more durability when you factor in the final kill shot. 5 Interceptors throw 25% more dice than the 4 StarVipers. And when in doubt, more ships are better, so overall it's almost exactly a wash. But the Interceptor squad only costs 90% of the StarVipers.

You never see a 5x Alpha list, but maybe 5 Alphas with autothrusters will be a thing. Having autothrusters would be a distinct advantage for the Interceptors though, relative to the StarVipers.

I'll at least proxy both eventually... but buying four StarViper packs and three more Interceptor packs (Imp. Aces not having Alpha's is annoying) will take some budgeting, so I want to know how much I like those lists before I find a spot for the ships in my "to buy" list. I also still have to decide whether or not I want to get 2 more TIE Advanced to go with the Raider, I already know I'll buy. Nothings getting in front of a pair of Most Wanted packs though, there's just too much good stuff in there.

4 StarVipers is going to be very demanding but in the hands of the right player, used with a "force my opponent to react to my positioning approach" it could be promising.

The key will be to capitalize on the advantage of PS1, namely moving first and getting into go locations first and forcing your opponent to actively avoid being blocked. Played aggressively, with a bump and grind style it could be effective although Phantoms would eat it for lunch... but Phantoms are going to have to worry about seeing Scum's ridiculously cheap turrets in every tournament post wave 6 in addition to Han/Dash/Decimators. So that's not as big a deal as it once was.

5 Alpha's with Auto is tempting simply because it'll be a new way to play Ints, screw PS we got numbers. Same sort of playstyle, force your opponent to "drive defensively" (not get blocked) because there's going to be a lot of hostile traffic.

Give it a shield upgrade and treat it like a comparetively costed b wing, or throw on autothrusters and the virago title, add a heavy laser and treat it like a defender. It might also fill in interceptor roles. Man, this ship might be very versatile right from the beginning!

No cannon slot on the Starviper.

If there had have been it would be Mangler Cannon all the way :-)