by the way, karrie neth is kind of worded in a way that is confusing. had to read it three times to get it.

Seemed pretty straightforward to me - how would you improve it for clarity?

New:

"At the start of the Activation Phase, Choose an Enemy Ship at Range 1-2. If that ship has an Ion Token you may acquire a Target Lock on that ship."

Original:

"At the start of the activation phase choose 1 enemy ship within range 1-2 which has an Ion token you may acquire a target lock on that ship"

Your original reads fine, but the wording could be more precise for identifying Triggers, Identification Markers, and Timings. Above looks almost exactly like your original but it's been divided into easier identifiable parts.

Actually I copy/pasted R7-T1 as a template and tweaked it with what I identified as your desired triggers, timings, and ID marks.

by the way, karrie neth is kind of worded in a way that is confusing. had to read it three times to get it.

Seemed pretty straightforward to me - how would you improve it for clarity?

New:

"At the start of the Activation Phase, Choose an Enemy Ship at Range 1-2. If that ship has an Ion Token you may acquire a Target Lock on that ship."

Original:

"At the start of the activation phase choose 1 enemy ship within range 1-2 which has an Ion token you may acquire a target lock on that ship"

Your original reads fine, but the wording could be more precise for identifying Triggers, Identification Markers, and Timings. Above looks almost exactly like your original but it's been divided into easier identifiable parts.

Actually I copy/pasted R7-T1 as a template and tweaked it with what I identified as your desired triggers, timings, and ID marks.

agreed - yours is clearer

there would be plenty of tidying up to do to make these workable as even house rules - let alone part of an official FFG release - for instance "ion specialist" would work on any attacks as currently worded and not just with ICTs

I think the general idea is sound though

i love you. like. i love you a lot.

what i love about his idea is considering why FFG didn't make Y wings have crew: it would completely overlap with other ships. His new Y-wing only crew make a great deal of sense flavor and function-wise to add variety to what you could do with Ys.

So simply make it so that the BTL-S3 allows only Y wing crew. No worries about astro and crew mixing.

Neither are they overpowered or unfun, which makes them even better.

Heck, you could make it be called "Co-pilot" or "Comrade".

I think I'm going to steal this for house rules.

You're welcome - let me know how you get on playing this as a house rule - if I can persuade some of my regular gaming buddies to let me try it out I'll return the favour

looking at the costings I've done so far, they seem quite expensive for generics, but I'm loathe to change the PS restriction - Gold Squadron didn't fly S3s, they flew A4s so thematically they shouldn't get the upgrade - not to mention the fact that it adds incentive to give the Grays an airing

But conversely these upgrade suites are pretty cheap for the named pilots as the named Y-wing pilots are pretty good value for what they offer and the gunners are designed with synergizing those abilities in mind.

Also keeping with the theme, turrets should be compulsory - the S4 had a turret, so a turret it must have.

Perhaps a 1pt reduction on the cost of any turrets over 3 points for PS4 but PS6 and above pay full price - seems a little overcomplicated tho

game balance is the problem. there are no ships that combine an astromech with crew for a reason, lots of them, actually. astromechs are powerful in their own right, then to combine that with crew like Rec spec would break them I think.

Now, you could have Y-wing only crew, as suggested, or you could have crew members that replace the turret, as the base y-wing assumes a gunner in that seat already.

I for one love the y-wing, and i was upset when they gave crew to the b-wing but not the y-wing, but i think it's not too hard to see that there are some broken combinations when crew and astros begin to intersect.

I would like to see a rec spec astromech, as that helps ordinance and blaster turret.

I'd also like to see weapons engineer in astromech form

game balance is the problem. there are no ships that combine an astromech with crew for a reason, lots of them, actually. astromechs are powerful in their own right, then to combine that with crew like Rec spec would break them I think.

Now, you could have Y-wing only crew, as suggested, or you could have crew members that replace the turret, as the base y-wing assumes a gunner in that seat already.

I for one love the y-wing, and i was upset when they gave crew to the b-wing but not the y-wing, but i think it's not too hard to see that there are some broken combinations when crew and astros begin to intersect.

I would like to see a rec spec astromech, as that helps ordinance and blaster turret.

I'd also like to see weapons engineer in astromech form

Agree with most of that, that's why I think that if there were gunner/crew options they should be specifically oriented to what guys sat in the back seat do for a living - pick targets and shoot at them

There's some crossover with targeting systems for a few droids like R5K6 and R7T1 but careful wording of the cards should avoid that - so you'd probably reword my suggestion for Karrie Neath to something like "At the start of the Activation Phase, Choose an Enemy Ship at Range 1-2. If that ship has an Ion Token. You may perform a free Target Lock action on that ship."

Using my original wording, the potential for a 6 target lock combo using Dutch, Karrie and R5K6 would probably be a bit much - no matter how many points it cost

This is probably the best idea I have heard lately for some Y Love...we will give these a try.

Thank you, gentlebeing.

again, for all of you readers: y-wing ONLY CREW. ONLY.

key word:

ONLY

again, for all of you readers: y-wing ONLY CREW. ONLY.

key word:

ONLY

Or to be even more specific - PS4+ Y-Wings equipped with turret upgrades ONLY

BTW here's a new one I thought up on the way to my FLGS this afternoon

Tailgunner 1-2 pts - Y Wing BTL-S3 ONLY

One per round, When an attacker at range 1 declares you the target of an attack from outside your firing arc, immediately roll 1 attack die. On a Hit result the attacker suffers 1 damage. The attack then proceeds as normal even if the attacker is destroyed.

The wording probably needs tidying up, but I think the general idea is clear - you've got a specialist tailgunner capable of getting off a desperation snapshot that is simultaneous to the enemy's attack - he's still going to be attacked, but he might just get a little payback in the process

Y-Wing variants

• BTL Y-wing starfighter
The BTL Y-wing starfighter, built by Koensayr Manufacturing, was a mainstay of the Alliance Starfighter Corps. It was often used as an assault bomber to attack enemy capital ships directly in conjunction with the later B-wing starfighters.

Armament
Taim & Bak IX4 or KX5 laser cannons[4] (2)
Light ArMek turreted SW-4 ion cannons (2)
Arakyd Flex Tube proton torpedo launchers (2)
4 torpedoes each
Proton bombs

• BTL-S3 Y-wing starfighter
The BTL-S3 Y-wing, a variant configuration of the BTL Y-wing starfighter, was the most common Y-wing configuration. A two-man strike starfighter, the first crew member piloted the craft, while the second acted as a gunner and controlled the two swivel-mounted ion cannons, located right on top of the cockpit.

Armament
Taim & Bak IX4 or KX5 laser cannons (2)
ArMek turreted SW-4 ion cannon (1)
Aratech Flex Tube proton torpedo launchers (2)
10 torpedoes
20 proton bombs

• BTL-A4 Y-wing starfighter
The BTL-A4 Y-wing starfighter was the one-man version of the BTL-S3 starfighter model.

Armament
Taim & Bak IX4 or KX5 laser cannons (2)
ArMek turreted SW-4 ion cannons (2)
Arakyd Flex Tube proton torpedo launchers (2)
8 torpedoes or 20 proton bombs

• BTL-A4 LP "Longprobe"
An additional (though less common) BTL-A4 variant known as the "LongProbe," designated BTL-A4 (LP), was equipped with a nav computer, backup hyperdrive, advanced scanners, and an extended fuel supply in place of the weapons systems officer.
Armament
Laser cannons
Ion cannons
8 proton torpedoes


• BTL-S3 Courier variant
Alliance Intelligence utilized specially modified Y-wings for long-range courier duty. This variant of the BTL-S3 had no ion cannons, which were removed for baggage space, a larger main cockpit area able to carry up to five people,...

• BTL-S3B Y-wing starfighter
The BTL-S3B Y-wing starfighter was a variant of the S3 Y-wing, with twin blasters.

• Light Y-wing
The Light Y-wing was a light bomber, which lacked the support pylons on the engine.

• Heavy Y-wing
The Heavy Y-wing was a bomber with heavier ordinance and four engine pods.

This interesting list I found is going to keep me researching.
The Y-wing mark I
The Y-wing mark II (Unofficial)
BTL-P1 Y-wing "Prototype"
BTL-F1 Y-wing "Fighter"
BTL-T2 Y-wing "Trainer"
BTL-T2mod Y-wing "Intel Courier"
BTL-T2W Y-wing "Early Warning"
BTL-T2KC Y-wing "Tanker"
BTL-S3 Y-wing "Fighter-Bomber"
BTL-A4 Y-wing "Recon"
BTL-E5 Y-wing "Wild Weasel"
BTL-A6 Y-wing II "Recon"
BTL-S7 Y-wing II "Fighter-Bomber"
BTL-M2 "Medium Bomber"
BTL-U8 Y-wing "Pinnace"
BTL-E9 Y-wing II "Wild Weasel"
BTL-T10 Y-wing II "Trainer"
BTL-D11 Y-wing "Drone"




So with all these variants,
as I read through the differences,
I see a lot of ideas for upgrade cards.

• BTL-A4 title card, maybe like the Charadaan refit (-2) for the A-wing, locking the turret backwards (-2), or removing it completely (-4), adding the Boost ability or evade.
• Longprobe title card that adds the system upgrade.
• BTL-S3 Courier title card that removes the turret, and adds a crew, with restrictions against attack related crew.
• Light Y-wing title card, another Charadaan-like refit that removes both Torpedo slots. perhaps adding boost or evade instead of the negative cost.
• Heavy Y-wing title card that allows for two bomb upgrade slots.
• Veteran title card, the obvious one, that gives the Y-wing an EPT slot.
• Ace title card, not the obvious one, but rather one that gives the Y-wing the Boost or evade ability.
• Astromech upgrade, a droid that will share target locks, like Dutch Vander's ability, but with two other ships like Fleet Officer.
• BTL-T2 Y-wing title card, removes the two proton torpedo slots for two extra shield.
• BTL-T2W title card, extends the range of target locking for self and other ships.
• BTL-A6 Y-wing II "Recon" title card, like the long probe adds the system upgrade, but twice.
• BTL-E5 Y-wing title card, an ability that allows the removal of target locks within a range of 2.
• BTL-U8 "Easy Eight" Y-wing title card, heavily modified with two crew, more hull, less shields, and only the turret as the primary weapon.
• BTL-M2 "Medium Bomber" title card, adds two crew and an extra torpedo slot, making the turret the primary weapon.
• BTL-E9 Y-wing title card, a ship capable of performing a Jam action, same range as the Rebel transport.
• BTL-T10/FO Y-wing title card, if this ship is within range of a huge ship it doubles all target lock actions of the huge ship.
• BTL-TD11 Y-wing drone title card... not even going there, until they introduce Kamikaze ramming rules.

...Yes I know most of the later where unofficial ships created by Urban Lundqvist for use with the Star Wars role-playing game made by West End Games.

_{(Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:23 AM)}