Eleven Trees Designs - Templates without the Range Aids

By Asmodi, in X-Wing

For those who like to keep the game pure but replace the original templates and tokens with more vibrant and robust ones then look no further than Eleven Tree Designs.

Excellent service, superfast delivery and they can even put your initials on the templates if you prefer that personal touch.

You can also order individual tokens.

Just Google them.

Edited by Asmodi

No

I don't like being told to google stuff. :P

Most places offer templates without range markers. You may have to request it, but they do make them. This is not the only place that does it.

What are range aids and how do they make something unpure?

Decent looking acrylics and really well priced. If it wasn't for the fact i've recently gotten my heart set on a full colour pretty template set i'd definitely have given these guys a go... tbh if i find a second set would come in useful i think these might be the perfect choice...

What are range aids and how do they make something unpure?

On some acrylic templates, they have lines or notches or some other marking on the straights. The marking are at the 1, 2, 3, and 4 move lines. So you put down a 5 straight you can see where 1, 2, 3, ect... would also put you.

Some people seem to think this gives some sort of huge advantage and as such templates with those markers shouldn't be allowed.

The tournament rules already covers this and IMO any information both sides gets has such a narrow window of usefulness that there is effectively nothing gained.

I don't get what kind of advantage seeing the 1-4 markers really makes. The moves are set; you aren't going anywhere else.

On topic, I'm...not a huge fan of their designs, really. Sure, the templates look fine (albeit a bit bland) but those tokens just look too cartoonish

I don't get what kind of advantage seeing the 1-4 markers really makes.

Asmodi seems to be the only person who thinks there's any advantage to be had.

"Pure"?

"Pure"?

I'm guessing he means that by using the notched templates you are gaining an unfair advantage and dumping down the game.

Both claims being quite ludicrous.

Thanks but i prefer the cogotwo ones, the covenant don't seem to bad. You have to be careful the first set i bought from a different third party, all the turns and banks were out by 4 or 5mm.

What are range aids and how do they make something unpure?

It's a retinue that assists you while shooting your firearms. They load your magazines, sweep up your brass, and occasionally bring you tasty beverages.

People need to slow down with this, especially the tracking and marginalizing of others' opinions.

This game focuses pretty heavily on maneuvering. One of the most important aspects of maneuvering is selecting the appropriate maneuver based on estimating potential final positions. ANYTHING that gives ANY player additional information with regard to their final position based on a chosen maneuver provides an advantage. That advantage may be mutual, small, of even highly unlikely to be capitalized on, but it still exists and claiming otherwise is outrageous.

I don't get what kind of advantage seeing the 1-4 markers really makes. The moves are set; you aren't going anywhere else.

An example is two ships flying side by side where one, lets say a B-Wing, has advanced sensors and is in danger of stopping with its front corner on an asteroid as a result of its next straight maneuver. If the ship next to it does a 4 straight with a maneuver template that is marked to show the distances of the other straight maneuvers, then that player will have a much more precise idea of exactly how close to the asteroid the B-Wing will end up, which may cause that player to barrel roll before moving instead of taking a target lock.

The most obvious example is performing a 5 k-turn with the marked template. That player then has a measurement of exactly where the same ship will be as a result of any of the straight maneuvers that are available. This can be very valuable when moving through asteroids, especially when one's template is close enough so that it does not overlap but a base in that final position would.

I agree that situations where pre-measuring subsequent straight maneuvers would be valuable are limited, but anyone who doesn't see the potential advantages needs to take a minute and think about it. It really isn't difficult to come up with situations where it would be helpful.

Most importantly, there is no reason to have the templates made with lines to match the shorter maneuvers. That is just that the style that a lot of people have already purchased. Moving forward, I don't see why that style should not be phased out.

Edited by Rapture

That advantage may be mutual, small, of even highly unlikely to be capitalized on, but it still exists and claiming otherwise is outrageous.

Is it an advantage if the opponent gets the exact same information? You might be able to argue that it is but once you start getting into advantages that small we end up talking in the scale of advantages from minor manufacturing defects.

The short version is that the opponent has the opportunity to object to third party templates at the start of the game, so if they really bother you object. You might alienate a few people but if you really feel graduated maneuver templates are putting you at a disadvantage such is your right to demand the originals. But the rest of the world has no problem with it.

Straights are the easiest moves to accurately predict anyway. I can honestly say that using "segmented templates" I haven't done a k turn over an asteroid and said to myself "wow, now I know that a 3 forward won't land on it".

When moving forwards or k turns I look at my ship base, that is 1 forward. This lets me judge how far a 3 forward or 5 forwards is. Sometimes I screw up, but I'm generally pretty accurate.

First, considering whether or not the advantage is mutual egs the question of whether any advantage from marked templates is appropriate. Some people don't think that it is, so mutuality is a seperate topic. Also, and advantage from marked templates will be most easily utilized by the ship of the player executing the maneuver with that template, so I can't see the advantage being arguably equal unless both players are using marked templates (which still doesn't resolve the issue for players who don't want new advantages worked into the game).

Second, how good you are at guessing maneuver distances is completely irrelevant. No matter how good you are, I bet that you would be better if you got to use a maneuver template as a reference. Also, others will not match you in that ability, so using marked templates will provide either more or less of an advantage to one player in your games. Besides, whether you personally have experienced a situation where you would have an advantage is not conclusive as to whether that situation can exist. I gave some examples where it could make a difference and I am sure that others exist.

It's also an advantage to have a large based ship next to a small one. Or having the templates in a row on the side of the table.

I do agree that having the lines on them is a ever so slight advantage in certain rare situations. However the OP's attitude that anyone using them is a cheat is quite harsh, and its that claim im refuting.

There's a huge difference between saying "the use of marked templates should probably be phased out" and "anyone using a marked template is cheating and doesn't want to admit it".

You are right regarding game pieces providing a potental point of reference for maneuvers. The difference is that any advantage from other objects is inherent to the game as designed - marked maneuver templates are not.

You are also right that this isn't a big issue, but imagine a tournament game when the last turn ends with your opponent performing a perfect maneuver to acheive the optimal result in one of my example situations while using marked maneuver templates. Maybe he/she would have pulled it off without the help provided by the additional measurement reference, but maybe not. Again, I just don't see the point of arguing against the proliferation of unmarked templates.