First off - this story is not 100% real. It is inspired by an actual event that took place but I'm changing information to protect the innocent, Dragnet style.

How do you handle a cheater in a tournament when it was an honest mistake?

So there I am, in a small X-Wing tournament. Only 6 of us are playing. First round I play Jo-Jo. Jo-Jo has issues with X-Wing. He forgets rules, does things out of order, and screws up alot. He is somewhat new to the game, (Been playing for only about 2 months), but he probably shouldn't be making as many mistakes as he does. He seems a bit slow, but I don't mind, as I screw up too - so I try to fly casual and simply correct him on his mistakes. After all, none of them so far have been game breaking. Little things like forgetting to put a focus on his ship, or moving his ships out of order, when it wouldn't have actually made a difference. He does this sort of thing almost every game - it bothers some people but not me. Well, it bothers me a little bit - because I see him making the same exact mistakes over and over again... and it doesn't seem to matter how many times the people in our group correct him - he still keeps screwing up... so yeah it bothers me a little. Just a little.

So we finish our game. He wins it! He may forget tiny things, but the luck was on his side today with the dice rolling! Next game I'm playing someone else, and Jo-Jo is next to me, playing Samuel L. Jackson - (who happens to be running the tournament as well as playing). During the course of the game I happen to glance over and notice that Jo-Jo is flying a completely different build than he flew against me!!!! I'm thinking "What in the Heck?!?!?!", so I ask.

"Jo-Jo - weren't you flying Double Decimators last game? How are you flying X-Wings now?". Everyone within earshot immediately stops what they are doing and looks over at Jo-Jo who looks confused.

"I didn't know we couldn't change builds inbetween rounds" he says. I believe him, he sounds sincere to me. However I'm shocked that he didn't know. After all, he's been in at least one tournament before - and while we didn't explicitly tell him that HUGE rule - it was expected that people know at least the BASIC rules. The TO reluctantly agrees to finish the game since they are smack in the middle of it, and there simply isn't enough time left in the round to start another round - but tells Jo-Jo that he needs to go back to his original build for the next round. Jo-Jo ends up losing that game anyway, so the point seems to be moot. He goes back to his original build for the 3rd and final round and wins.

So we have a 3-way tie for the lead, and Jo-Jo is one of the three. After some discussion we all agree that Jo-Jo will bow out of the top 3, so the remaining 2 can battle for victory. Turns out there is a 3rd place prize though, so Jo-Jo still ends up winning something. Nothing huge, but some people are kinda angry at the way it all worked out.

Should Jo-Jo had to forfeit the match?

Should Jo-Jo have been completely DQ'd from the entire day?

Should the tournament rules have been posted?

Or was it Jo-Jo's responsibility to google tournament rules for FFG games before walking into the store that day?

I argued that he should just have forfeit'd the round, but still been allowed to play the rest of the day, but some others thought he should have been completely DQ'd for the entire tournament. I understand that logic, but this was a paid tournament with prize support, and I personally would have felt really bad for someone who pays to play in a tournament and ends up getting thrown out over an honest mistake.

That's almost too big a mistake to be honest. I mean no one else was swapping lists, so if he was at all aware, he should be able to deduce that he can't change his list up because no one else was.

It is everyone's responsibility to know the tournament rules that FFG has published in order to play in a sponsored tournament. I'm not sure ignorance is a usable excuse.

JoJo should have gotten a match loss for the round he was playing in with the "new" list. But, that's also not completely fair, what if JoJo had been able to win his 2nd round match with his registered list? JoJo has created a mess.

JoJo needs to be made aware that if he doesn't follow the tournament rules in the future he will be DQ'd from any future events. That doesn't mean moving a ship out of order or forgetting a focus token, that's between the players in the match, but something like changing his squad or following the larger tournament ruleset is just something that's expected.

God what a mess. I'm not sure beating him up over it is the best course of action, but when things like this happen it can upset the standings for people not directly playing him, he needs to do better.

I argued that he should just have forfeit'd the round, but still been allowed to play the rest of the day.

At the very least, this. I agree with you on that point. Now, if it was a Store Championship or higher, yeah, he's have to disqualified.

I know some people who would karate chop JoJo in the neck over that acrylic token he just won.

I blame the TO! This is why a 'tournament' no matter how small should have squad list for every player turned in prior to the first seeding. A quick glance by the TO to make sure there are no glaring mistakes and also a reminder to everyone that the list you start with is the list you play all tournament long.

The optimist in me thinks that in this case it was likely a 'mistake' of ignorance as opposed to someone trying to get over. Even still, mistakes without consequence tend to not get fixed. I would've let him finish (if he wanted to) but told him that win/lose/draw he is last place in this tourney...enjoy the scimitar/gold/academy art cards.

He should have forfeited the second round and left it at that...

Any violation of this rule in the future and he should be booted...

Well, Let the fun begin.....

JoJo, will keep on making mistakes because he never suffers the result of his mistakes. If all the players keep reminding him and correcting the mistakes he makes why would you expect him to learn. He has been rewarded for changing squads at this point and you think this will change, perhaps he might have gotten the message. If he was made to sit out the last round we know he would have gotten the message. Yes, it was a simple mistake and perhaps a rule was overlooked, but you have to disqualify him so the lesson is learned. It is possible to DQ a player without being a D**K.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1EyN9xTK94?version=3&start=14&end=19&autoplay=1&hl=en_US&rel=0

Next game I'm playing someone else, and Jo-Jo is next to me, playing Samuel L. Jackson

Well, first off, obviously Samuel L. Jackson would have won regardless...

Next game I'm playing someone else, and Jo-Jo is next to me, playing Samuel L. Jackson

Well, first off, obviously Samuel L. Jackson would have won regardless...

Tell that to his eye...

and his hand.

Wait, those were just movies and he was just acting?

then why does he always act the same in every one?

Well, for one, TOs need to appeal to the lowest common denominator. At the start he needs to ask the simple question

"Has everyone read and understood the standard FFG tournament rules, and have got their list ready for review"

You don't NEED to check every list, but just the threat of being checked will keep everyone honest, and that question would have clued on JoJo (hopefully) to the fact that only 1 list is to be played

Next game I'm playing someone else, and Jo-Jo is next to me, playing Samuel L. Jackson

Well, first off, obviously Samuel L. Jackson would have won regardless...

I think the TO bears much of the blame for not collecting squad lists from the players when they showed up. That would have prevented the whole thing.

But, it sounds like the TO made the call to allow Jo-Jo to continue playing in the tournament, and at that point it should have been settled. He should've been treated like any other competitor in the three-way tie for first (using MoV, then strength of schedule, as tiebreakers), having earned it according to the ruling he was allowed to play under.

It was a six-person tournament. That sounds pretty casual. Everyone should just put it behind them, especially the TO, and take the very simple steps necessary to make sure this particular mistake doesn't happen again. It's just not a big deal.

But maybe the TO should've put in $10 of their own, or whatever the entry fee was, and given it to the fourth-place finisher.

Jo-Jo has issues with X-Wing. He forgets rules, does things out of order, and screws up alot. He is somewhat new to the game, (Been playing for only about 2 months), but he probably shouldn't be making as many mistakes as he does. He seems a bit slow, ..

JoJo, will keep on making mistakes because he never suffers the result of his mistakes. If all the players keep reminding him and correcting the mistakes he makes why would you expect him to learn. He has been rewarded for changing squads at this point and you think this will change, perhaps he might have gotten the message. If he was made to sit out the last round we know he would have gotten the message. Yes, it was a simple mistake and perhaps a rule was overlooked, but you have to disqualify him so the lesson is learned.

Just from the way Crabbok is describing Jo-Jo, I'd be wary of some mental disability. If so, I don't think harsher treatment or negative reinforcement is going to work, and may in fact be somewhat cruel (even if not intended to be cruel).

This also highlights why it's difficult to have the TO playing in the tournament.

If the TO is playing and has to DQ his own opponent it smacks of a conflict of interest, regardless of whether he was right or wrong to DQ the player - rules or no rules I'd be very uncomfortable having to do that had I been in that position.

Did you never watch Primal Fear or Usual Suspects?

Just saying

At the start he needs to ask the simple question

"Has everyone read and understood the standard FFG tournament rules, and have got their list ready for review"

This. From the information provided, JoJo didn't actually make a mistake - he was just playing the game. Without assuming that extra rules exist for a tournament, a player on the dimmer side would have no way of knowing of the restriction on altering lists.

So, the one who got shafted is really JoJo. He did not know that there were extra rules and he got punished by the TO and the other players for not being told that there were extra rules. But, that is only based on the facts that you provided.

did JO JO upgrade his build to counter the new player's build or was it just a "Different" build... and what was the 3rd place prize. if it was a cardboard deck box let him win it..lol

Since we don't have any information on how the tournament was handled before it started (lists deliver, etc) and the specifics he was told when signing up (likely it happened the same day), we could not have any conclussion. He may or may not have a mental disability.

Honestly, in my opinion, this problem is about bad tournament organization. If you forced your players to give you the squadron lists beforehand, or even half an hour before the tournament, they could had completely avoided that.

The sad part, is that probably you (by you i don't mean specifically you Crabbok) made JoJo feel like crap that day withouth real proof about something that was already settled. It's pretty easy to get when people is pissed about you winning something, etc.

I changed some information in the story to protect the innocent - so lets just say that there was a good reason for not collecting lists and leave it at that. It COULD have been done, but at great difficulty to everyone involved, as this event wasn't actually an X-Wing tournament, it was for something else, I'm just relating it to X-Wing since so many other variables have a correlation to X-Wing.

Jo-Jo has issues with X-Wing. He forgets rules, does things out of order, and screws up alot. He is somewhat new to the game, (Been playing for only about 2 months), but he probably shouldn't be making as many mistakes as he does. He seems a bit slow, ..

JoJo, will keep on making mistakes because he never suffers the result of his mistakes. If all the players keep reminding him and correcting the mistakes he makes why would you expect him to learn. He has been rewarded for changing squads at this point and you think this will change, perhaps he might have gotten the message. If he was made to sit out the last round we know he would have gotten the message. Yes, it was a simple mistake and perhaps a rule was overlooked, but you have to disqualify him so the lesson is learned.

Just from the way Crabbok is describing Jo-Jo, I'd be wary of some mental disability. If so, I don't think harsher treatment or negative reinforcement is going to work, and may in fact be somewhat cruel (even if not intended to be cruel).

He actually could have some type of handicap, but I didn't want to include that in the OP since I honestly don't know and I'm not a mental health proffesional, so don't want to sound like a bully making snap judgements. It is possible, however, which is one reason I prefer to be kind in this case rather than harsh.

did JO JO upgrade his build to counter the new player's build or was it just a "Different" build... and what was the 3rd place prize. if it was a cardboard deck box let him win it..lol

Jo-Jo's changed build did not in any way counter the other player's build. In fact it seemed like he had pulled it out before even knowing who he was going to face. I'm pretty sure he was just anxious to try out multiple new builds on this day, not realizing that he was locked into one.

I've heard many people say that individuals are responsible for reading the tournament rules and knowing them. While I don't disagree with that statement, my inner Devil's Advocate wants to ask a few questions:

If you don't know there are tournament rules to begin with - how are you going to know about familiarizing yourself with them? I mean, you don't know what you don't know. I always get annoyed with that article because while everyone assumed that Jo-Jo knew that you were locked in to a single build, and that he should have googled the rules, I ask the question "How was he supposed to know there were special rules in the first place?" I obviously know because at some point in my life, someone must have told me. Suppose there are some special rules for March 1st, 2015 - where all red haired individuals have to strap broccoli to their feet or be put to death. Then that day comes and lots of people get executed, and all the Blondes and Brunettes say "Well, if they didn't know the rules they should have took it upon themselves to go learn them".

How much responsibility does a tournament organzier actually have when ensuring that people have read the rules? Suppose someone says "What? There are special rules?" Do you post them someone for public display?

NAIL HIM TO THE STORE WALL!!!!!

No, I know people like Jo Jo. They are decent people, if a little slow. Maybe they actually have a handicap. I don't know. I'd make him stick to one list after that and bump him to the last place at the end of it all. I wouldn't kick him out, because for such a small event, he can get the card.

If it was a genuine mistake and he's the kind of person you say he is then I don't think he should have been disqualified. He should definitely have forfeited the second game but he shouldn't have been bumped to last place - after all he did win both of his other games.

I think there's enough blame to go around here though- Jo Jo should know the rules (especially if it wasn't his first tourney) and the TO should have made sure that people knew and fully understood the rules and should have been keeping a closer eye on things (a bit difficult to do when he's taking part).

If he forfeits his 2nd game, it pretty much means he is in last place. Well, most likely. Unless there is someone who lost all games.

From the FAQ:

This sounds like a quite casual event. Small prizes and few players. Go casual about it guys... In fact, Fly Casual

If you don't know there are tournament rules to begin with - how are you going to know about familiarizing yourself with them? I mean, you don't know what you don't know. I always get annoyed with that article because while everyone assumed that Jo-Jo knew that you were locked in to a single build, and that he should have googled the rules, I ask the question "How was he supposed to know there were special rules in the first place?"

It's not quite the usual practice for X-wing, but it might be a good idea for TOs to make a habit of explaining when they publicize an event that it will be run according to the tournament rules (possibly with a link, if it's on Facebook or something).

That is, people usually say if they're changing the standard tournament rules in some way, but maybe the community should be in the habit of stating the default, too.

I obviously know because at some point in my life, someone must have told me. Suppose there are some special rules for March 1st, 2015 - where all red haired individuals have to strap broccoli to their feet or be put to death. Then that day comes and lots of people get executed, and all the Blondes and Brunettes say "Well, if they didn't know the rules they should have took it upon themselves to go learn them".

Uh, okay. But this situation is more like a guy getting drunk and starting a fight in a bar, and claiming when the bouncer comes to throw him out that he didn't know fighting was against the rules. No one at that bar started a fight except him. No one at the bar he went to last week started a fight. It's a community norm that you don't start fights.

Maybe the guy genuinely didn't know, but that doesn't mean his actions are acceptable.

How much responsibility does a tournament organzier actually have when ensuring that people have read the rules? Suppose someone says "What? There are special rules?" Do you post them someone for public display?

Yeah, I think you make sure you have a copy of the tournament rules available to hand to someone. I also think you take reasonable steps to enforce the rules--it may not have been feasible for this particular event, but in X-wing it really is easy to collect squad lists before the tournament starts.