The Scimitar Bomber is known to be the ship with the best Survivability/Cost ratio in the game.

However, is the Cartel Scyk Interceptor the best Damage/Cost ratio (assuming Title and HLC, giving it 4 attack dice for 23 points each)?

And does that damage opportunity make up for its TIE-tier survivability?

I think MJ had it at a pretty good jousting efficiency with the HLC, Hull and a serissu defense die re-roll. 104.3% on his tables, actually. So definitely good enough to be interesting.

Keep in mind that a HLC Scyk with a hull upgrade is 26 points, not 23, and a HLC Scyk with a hull upgrade and Serissu is 46 points minimum.

According to MJ's table, a 23 point HLC scyk at PS1 without factoring in the dial is only 89% effecient, the same as a Rookie X-Wing, which is not good. I think the heavy title was over costed by about 2 points.

Remember that focus fire is a thing in this game, if you spend a ton of points to make a ship super offensive but it attacks last and dies quickly to concentrated fire, you have a glass cannon that your opponent might break before you can even attack with it, which would be a huge waste of points.

Edit: Nevermind.

Keep in mind that a HLC Scyk with a hull upgrade is 26 points, not 23, and a HLC Scyk with a hull upgrade and Serissu is 46 points minimum.

According to MJ's table, a 23 point HLC scyk at PS1 without factoring in the dial is only 89% effecient, the same as a Rookie X-Wing, which is not good. I think the heavy title was over costed by about 2 points.

Remember that focus fire is a thing in this game, if you spend a ton of points to make a ship super offensive but it attacks last and dies quickly to concentrated fire, you have a glass cannon that your opponent might break before you can even attack with it, which would be a huge waste of points.

Which is why I think that the Scyk will be most used either vanilla or with a Mangler Cannon. 3 hit points and PS2, when everybody got a lot of practice shooting down Phantoms and will be prepared for Interceptors, will be easy to get rid of, so I don't think that putting too many points in the ship is the way to go.

I definetely see it working at 14pts though, like the current Prototype A-Wing.

Keep in mind that a HLC Scyk with a hull upgrade is 26 points, not 23, and a HLC Scyk with a hull upgrade and Serissu is 46 points minimum.

According to MJ's table, a 23 point HLC scyk at PS1 without factoring in the dial is only 89% effecient, the same as a Rookie X-Wing, which is not good. I think the heavy title was over costed by about 2 points.

Remember that focus fire is a thing in this game, if you spend a ton of points to make a ship super offensive but it attacks last and dies quickly to concentrated fire, you have a glass cannon that your opponent might break before you can even attack with it, which would be a huge waste of points.

Which is why I think that the Scyk will be most used either vanilla or with a Mangler Cannon. 3 hit points and PS2, when everybody got a lot of practice shooting down Phantoms and will be prepared for Interceptors, will be easy to get rid of, so I don't think that putting too many points in the ship is the way to go.

I definetely see it working at 14pts though, like the current Prototype A-Wing.

The M3-A will have to prove that it's worth taking over a slightly more durable Binayre Pirate for 12 points though. For me personally, the A-Wing's speed, k-turning abilities and extra durability have proven to me that it is worth the extra 3 points over a Bandit.

Scum players looking to do well with the M3-A will have to answer the same question, is the Barrel Roll, +1 agility, 1 hard turn and better k-turning worth an extra 2 points, a shield, and the 1 forward?

The M3-A will have to prove that it's worth taking over a slightly more durable Binayre Pirate for 12 points though. For me personally, the A-Wing's speed, k-turning abilities and extra durability have proven to me that it is worth the extra 3 points over a Bandit.

Scum players looking to do well with the M3-A will have to answer the same question, is the Barrel Roll, +1 agility, 1 hard turn and better k-turning worth an extra 2 points, a shield, and the 1 forward?

The real answer, of course, varies from list to list

In terms of whether or it the M3-A can be worth it, I'd say the barrel-roll alone gives it a chance.

I like my bandits and all, but having 0 access to any kind of post-maneuver movement is almost crippling. They require a hell of a lot more forethought and very practiced positioning compared to ships that can roll in response to changing conditions (most important, initial deployment when they go down first and most enemies later) and to set-up firing arcs they would not normally have.

Basically, barrel-roll is huge.

Almost equally important: choice of k-turns (5k especially, since it's one of the most interesting yet under-appreciated maneuvers because of the the action-dependent ships it usually comes on) and the ability to opt for the 1-hard. Even with all the turrets polluting the current meta, flexibility of maneuvering is always going to be one of a ship's key strength

The M3-A will have to prove that it's worth taking over a slightly more durable Binayre Pirate for 12 points though. For me personally, the A-Wing's speed, k-turning abilities and extra durability have proven to me that it is worth the extra 3 points over a Bandit.

Scum players looking to do well with the M3-A will have to answer the same question, is the Barrel Roll, +1 agility, 1 hard turn and better k-turning worth an extra 2 points, a shield, and the 1 forward?

You forgot the Evade action for the Scyk and the hard 3 for the Bandit.

Since I prefer maneuvrability over durability (no wonder I almost always play Imperial), yeah it's worth it for me. The hard one combined with a barrel roll is a maneuver that I love to pull with my Tie Fighters, being able to also pull the 1 bank with Barrel roll is even better.

I'll probably end up playing them as a mini swarm (4 Cartel pilot for 56pts), but can see me including 1 or 2 with a Cannon from time to time.

You're right, the hard 1 turn and the Barrel Roll combo really nicely together for blocking. The evade action is kind of a wash, since with 3 evade dice you are mostly better off focusing even for defense. Not having a 3 speed turn is pretty huge, that's an important maneuver for getting past asteroids as a formation.

You're right, the hard 1 turn and the Barrel Roll combo really nicely together for blocking. The evade action is kind of a wash, since with 3 evade dice you are mostly better off focusing even for defense. Not having a 3 speed turn is pretty huge, that's an important maneuver for getting past asteroids as a formation.

Yeah, that's my personnal problem with the ship. Maybe it's because I've been flying a lot of Tie Bombers and Defenders, but the hard 3 turn is a maneuver that I use often. On the other hand, I got used to having only the 3 turn available (as a white anyway), so I should have no problem getting used to having ''only'' the 1 and 2.

As for formation flying, with all the highly maneuvrable craft and boosting big base around, I found that I fly less and less in formation, maybe for the initial approach, but once the first fires are shot, all hell break loose and I try to have my ships pointing in a lot of direction.

The Scimitar Bomber is known to be the ship with the best Survivability/Cost ratio in the game.

However, is the Cartel Scyk Interceptor the best Damage/Cost ratio (assuming Title and HLC, giving it 4 attack dice for 23 points each)?

I have 4 base attack at doing 2.5 normalized damage vs HLC at 2.375 normalized.

Sigma Squadron Pilot is 25 points (at PS3 mind you), so its attack per cost normalized to a TIE is 2.5/(25/12) = 1.2.

HLC Scyk is 23 points (at only PS1) so its attack per cost normalized to a TIE is 2.5/(25/12) = 1.24.

So the Scyk does more damage per cost, but only because the Sigma is paying for PS3. If you consider the PS1 effective cost of the Sigma as 25 / (1 + 2/24) = 23.08, then they both cost the same but the Sigma does more damage.

This all assumes that the Scyk will always have an HLC shot, and is not forced to take a 3 attack range 1 shot. This is an optimistic and unrealistic assumption, especially since the Scyk's dial has no straight 1 and so can't slow-roll.

The best squad I have come up with that uses the Heavy Scyk title (on paper, untested) so far is:

100 points

Serissu (20)

Palob + Blaster Turret + Opportunist + K4 Security Droid + Moldy Crow (34)

Cartel Spacer + "Heavy Scyk" + Heavy Laser Cannon (23)

Cartel Spacer + "Heavy Scyk" + Heavy Laser Cannon (23)

Palob still pulls so much heat that the Spacers can do there thing for a bit. Everyone benefits from Serissu's buff, at least in theory, but managing those ships' dials to remain in range without crashing directly into your opponent at range 1 is not trivial.

You're right, the hard 1 turn and the Barrel Roll combo really nicely together for blocking. The evade action is kind of a wash, since with 3 evade dice you are mostly better off focusing even for defense. Not having a 3 speed turn is pretty huge, that's an important maneuver for getting past asteroids as a formation.

I don't think you've been reading about S&V. They're all about /not/ flying in formation.

Do we know the dial yet?

Do we know the dial yet?

FFG quietly uploaded it without actually referencing it in their news article.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/x-wing/news/scum-and-villainy/SWX26-dial.png

Huh, odd they didn't reference it in any of the news articles - good find.

One major difference between Scyk+HLC and Tie Phantom is the range 1 shot being much stronger for the Phantom. So, with a good mix of shots at different range, the phantom is actually a little more destructive for its cost (even if HLC prevents the range-3 additional defense die)

A few notes on "ranking".

The lambda shuttle is actually a little more solid for its cost than the TIE bomber. But I agree it's its own category.

It's conditional on their abilities, but Nightbeast & Dark Curse could be considered more defensive than Tie defender, especially if you adjust for PS.

And in terms of offensive value,

The "saber squadron pilot" + "predator" may be slightly more cost efficient than the TIE phantom for offense, as its cost 1 less point for nearly the same offensive power, but if you adjust for PS (4), or you are firing AT PS 1-2 targets (for predator), then, it's clearly a more offensive ship than the TIE phantom.

You're right, the hard 1 turn and the Barrel Roll combo really nicely together for blocking. The evade action is kind of a wash, since with 3 evade dice you are mostly better off focusing even for defense. Not having a 3 speed turn is pretty huge, that's an important maneuver for getting past asteroids as a formation.

I don't think you've been reading about S&V. They're all about /not/ flying in formation.

If that was the case, then I don't understand why they would make a card like Serissu in Scum. I try not to fluff and flavor dictate what strategies I use.

As for formation flying not being in vogue anymore, even when flying against something like a Phantom, you still should start in formation and then split right when you engage the Phantom, so that you can reform into a formation after the Phantom is dealt with. Which means that your ships need to be able to clear that corner asteroid together.

As for formation flying not being in vogue anymore, even when flying against something like a Phantom, you still should start in formation and then split right when you engage the Phantom, so that you can reform into a formation after the Phantom is dealt with. Which means that your ships need to be able to clear that corner asteroid together.

That's why I said that I do it less and less except for the initial approach.

But once I break formation, I never feel the need to get back in formation later. You can still focus fire against a target even when out of formation, you just have to time your move and distance differently.

As for scum not being about flying in formation, that's also what I would like to believe but pilot ability like Xizor, Serissu and Kaa'to, or Scum exclusive EPT like Bodyguard, tend to prove otherwise.

As for formation flying not being in vogue anymore, even when flying against something like a Phantom, you still should start in formation and then split right when you engage the Phantom, so that you can reform into a formation after the Phantom is dealt with. Which means that your ships need to be able to clear that corner asteroid together.

That's why I said that I do it less and less except for the initial approach.

But once I break formation, I never feel the need to get back in formation later. You can still focus fire against a target even when out of formation, you just have to time your move and distance differently.

As for scum not being about flying in formation, that's also what I would like to believe but pilot ability like Xizor, Serissu and Kaa'to, or Scum exclusive EPT like Bodyguard, tend to prove otherwise.

It's all about variety

X-wing would be a mind-rottingly dull experience if every single rebel were like Biggs and every single Imperial like Soontir. Instead, we get overlaps like Jake Farrel and Howlrunner. Scum is no different in that regard, though they have a few mechanics that can buff the squadron without flying in formation (mostly by crippling the enemy)

Off the top of my head, it's at least Mux & Palob set against the Rebel's Wes and the Imperial's Carnor Jax

As for formation flying not being in vogue anymore, even when flying against something like a Phantom, you still should start in formation and then split right when you engage the Phantom, so that you can reform into a formation after the Phantom is dealt with. Which means that your ships need to be able to clear that corner asteroid together.

That's why I said that I do it less and less except for the initial approach.

But once I break formation, I never feel the need to get back in formation later. You can still focus fire against a target even when out of formation, you just have to time your move and distance differently.

As for scum not being about flying in formation, that's also what I would like to believe but pilot ability like Xizor, Serissu and Kaa'to, or Scum exclusive EPT like Bodyguard, tend to prove otherwise.

It's all about variety

X-wing would be a mind-rottingly dull experience if every single rebel were like Biggs and every single Imperial like Soontir. Instead, we get overlaps like Jake Farrel and Howlrunner. Scum is no different in that regard, though they have a few mechanics that can buff the squadron without flying in formation (mostly by crippling the enemy)

Off the top of my head, it's at least Mux & Palob set against the Rebel's Wes and the Imperial's Carnor Jax

Ok well somebody implied that flying Scum ships in formation was doing it wrong and I rebuffed by pointing out that Scum has pilots like Serissu that reward formation flying, so obviously there are scum ships that do want to fly in formation at least some of the time.

Then again, maybe the hodgepodge nature of Scum is why I have no interest in the faction. That and that I hate the color yellow.

Ok well somebody implied that flying Scum ships in formation was doing it wrong and I rebuffed by pointing out that Scum has pilots like Serissu that reward formation flying, so obviously there are scum ships that do want to fly in formation at least some of the time.

Then again, maybe the hodgepodge nature of Scum is why I have no interest in the faction. That and that I hate the color yellow.

Consider me the mediator

Imo, variety is the single most key aspect of generating and maintaining interest in a game. Any faction with a clear defining premise should, of course, pursue it in order to differentiate themselves from one another (kinda hard to have variety when everything's the same) but every faction also needs to offer different playstyles or risk becoming one trick ponies.

It's why we have formation flying rebels alongside rebels with completely independent abilities. Ditto imperial. Ditto scum.

It's why we have Seirussu, N'druu, and Palob in the same faction.

It's why we have dice rolls, randomization ensures the possibility of crazy **** happening and throwing our expectations right out the window

It's also why the Wave 5 meta can stick its head up its own ass and suffocate to death for all I care.

Bring on the Scum! They can't get here soon enough!