I'm not sure how dumb this question is but: Keyan's ability states: "When attacking, you may remove 1 stress token to change all of your [Focus] results to [Hit] results.

Does this mean Keyan can remove another ships stress to change his attacking results? The wording doesn't specifcy where the token is I guess.

Unless an ability specifically refers to another ship it is referring to the ship that has the ability. Rulebook page, 19 under "Card Abilities".

Does this mean Keyan can remove another ships stress to change his attacking results?

...No.

No, "you" refers to the ship the ability is assigned to. You can only remove a stress token on Keyan to use his ability.

Thank you guys.

"You" and "your" is a reference to the active ship, not the player.

And, just in case you didn't know, you can still remove your stress even if you don't roll and focuses. You just need to declare it.

And, just in case you didn't know, you can still remove your stress even if you don't roll and focuses. You just need to declare it.

Nothing in the FAQ supports this that I can find, can you show me the relevant part? Thanks

The support is the ruling in the FAQ that you can spend focus tokens to change zero eyeballs. I think it is listed under garvin's entry. There really is no reason to suppose that spending a stress token would be any different, though I suppose it is technically possible that they might rule it that way.

There is nothing that directly says "Keyan may spend his stress even if he rolls no focuses"

However,

Page 8

Spending Tokens

When attacking, players may spend focus tokens or target locks and elect not to modify any attack dice. When defending, players may spend focus tokens and elect not modify any defense dice and may spend evade tokens to add evade results in excess of the number of hit and critical hit results.

and

Page 11

Garven Dries

(paragraph 2)

A ship may spend a focus token during an attack even if there are no results to change (including an attack where no dice are rolled, such when a ship has a faceup Blinded Pilot Damage card).

Given the wording of both Keyan and Garven's pilot abilities, it is clear that this is what was intended by the designers (I believe they have responded to direct inquires about this)

So people are assuming Keyan can work like this on the basis of what the entry says for focus tokens?

Focus and stress are entirely different things. There is no way Keyan should be allowed to remove his stress without any cost at all - zero focus icons, he just spends them for zero effect? That's crazy!

And it's not supported in the rules.

I think it's not in the gift of players to assume these rules. That FFG has not clarified this either means they aren't doing their job, or they don't think Keyan should work that way.

Why should it work differently when it's worded the same?

It is written to be grammatically correct if working the way we are telling you it is working, and not correct if it works the way you imply it should.

Why should it work differently when it's worded the same?

It is written to be grammatically correct if working the way we are telling you it is working, and not correct if it works the way you imply it should.

Because it's not the same. Focus and Stress are two entirely different mechanics. Discarding a focus token, as per Garven, has a completely different effect on the state of play than a stress token. Getting rid of Stress for no cost to gives you a huge advantage and enables cards like PtL to be hugely more effective; Stress is meant to be a penalty and a consequence. Focus is not.

You cannot possibly argue that it is the right of players to interpret the FAQ as they see fit. That undermines the point of having one! FFG need to step up their game consdierably, why even have an FAQ if they leave out essential questions such as this. I don't think it's right for a player to say to me that Keyan can spend Stress without focus results without an FAQ entry that clears this explicitly. Arguing that it can on the basis of a reference to a similar effect on another card using a completely different game mechanism is no way for games to work.

This literally comes up every month, with 1 hold out still not believing it despite being told pretty much universally by the community as a whole, despite the wording, despite the English language, despite what can be correctly inferred from other rulings in the FAQ that, because FFG are very specific in their wording is 18 pages instead of 400+.

A quick search of the forum yielded this

Hello Nils,

In response to your rules question:
Rule Question:
Hi FFG rule guru,

I've a question regarding Keyan Farlanders ability on spending stress tokens: is he able to get rid of the stress without rolling at least one eyeball when he attacks (similar to spending focus) or has at least one eyeball to come up to trigger his ability.
As FAQed in the past zero results include the terminus "all" so is that the case too regarding Keyans ability?

Thank you,
Nils

You are correct. He can spend the stress token, even if he rolls no focus results (as you properly inferred from the FAQ).

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks
Associate Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
[email protected]

EDIT: Also, I double checked the FAQ. Page 13 (v2.2), under the heading KEYAN FARLANDER.

Keyan Farlander can remove a stress token even if he hasn’t rolled any results during the attack.

(for some reason the FAQ online at the moment has reverted to v2.1 with the rollover to the new look. I would expect that to be fixed as soon as they realise.

And yet that's not in the FAQ, which is exceptionally sloppy for a game that charges money for official organised play events.

If that's the ruling then fair enough. I don't agree with it at all; to be able to get rid of stress that easy is absurd.

This isn't even a language thing either (thanks for the ad hom). The wording on Keyan's card is quite clear and doesn't lend itself to an assumption that one can spend stress without eyeballs. That's just making it up as you go along which it sounds like FFG are doing. I give you the benefit of the doubt that the quote you provide is accurate, but there is nothing I can see in the FAQ that covers this at all. If the best argument is based on what another card does with a completely different game mechanism then that's ridiculous and we can all make up what we want. The whole reason FAQs exist is to clear these issues up. Given this is asked constnatly there's no excuse for Keyan not to have a clear entry.

The latest FAQ does not have any entry listed for him.

So people are assuming Keyan can work like this on the basis of what the entry says for focus tokens?

Focus and stress are entirely different things. There is no way Keyan should be allowed to remove his stress without any cost at all - zero focus icons, he just spends them for zero effect? That's crazy!

And it's not supported in the rules.

I think it's not in the gift of players to assume these rules. That FFG has not clarified this either means they aren't doing their job, or they don't think Keyan should work that way.

People are "assuming" because that's the way it works and that's what is in the FAQ 2.2. It's exactly the same mechanic as Garven spending a focus. There is a cost of his ability - he can only use it when he makes an attack.

FAQ, version 2.2, pg 13

Keyan Farlander
Keyan Farlander can remove a stress token
even if he hasn’t rolled any results during
that attack.
Keyan Farlander can use his ability only once
per attack; see “Abilities Resolve Once per
Opportunity” on page 8.

This seems to be another problem caused by the site update going back a version of the FAQ...

Seems to be in my FAQ. But then I downloaded it back in October when it was the latest FAQ.

not to mention that he's 4ish points more expensive then a PS 7 B-Wing should be (from memory), meaning that his ability carries a 4 point Pilot skill cost - the most expensive (again from memory)/ FAQ 2.2 is still the latest, looks like whoever did the coding on the new site design accidentally linked an old FAQ. I'd expect it to be fixed soon. And it is a language issue, the definition of the word "all".

Have to love people arguing what is in the latest FAQ without ever having actually looked at the FAQ when it was updated months ago.

Have to love people arguing what is in the latest FAQ without ever having actually looked at the FAQ when it was updated months ago.

I'd say it's reasonable for someone to download the FAQ today and think they had the most recent.

For a new player certainly. But for someone that is clearly not that, post on the forums regularly, etc; to argue so vehemently about an issue that was settled months ago is a bit funny.

So, in the end, may he clear stress even without rolling eyeballs or not?

And if there's no attacking at all?

So, in the end, may he clear stress even without rolling eyeballs or not?

And if there's no attacking at all?

If he attacks, he can spend the stress to turn 0 eyeballs into 0 hits.

He has to actually attack to do this, even if it's an attack with 0 dice.

I think whenever this question comes up again we should just start making bets with whoever is arguing. Might as well make a profit.

But seriously, it blows my mind that anyone is still in the dark about this.