So am calling out for some advice on running a Deathwatch game. Not so much thematic - I'm quite conversant with that - but more balancing, since I gather the game's adventures and encounters are more balanced for a group that's got 4 members. Not just 3...

in particular? My three are as follows:

Iron Hands Devastator Marine - Nothing too stand out with him, great Ballistic skill though.

Salamander Tech Priest - He rolled a Nat 20 for his Toughness... so he's currently at 60 after taking an advance with his initial 1000 xp and the chapter bonnus. WOWZER.

Carcharodon Assault Marine - High WS, naturally. nothing else super stand out.

We don't really have anyone with high fellowship, so no real standout leader sort. Guess they'll be listening to their inquisitor and happily charging into battle.

But yeah, I'm really just looking for advice on not totally overwhelming them, because while I have a familiarity with the system and the line. They're all brand new to it, and rather new to the setting as well.

What are you looking to throw against them? What race? Also are you wanting an encounter which is a whitewash, one to cost them a few fatepoints but keep them alive...

More just general advice on how much is likely to be too much. I mean, fortunately it's a rather quick Chargen Process and they all have more ideas. But I'd rather not be wiping the party or killing anyone in the first few sessions as I try to get a handle on just what is and isn't too much.

Like will a Hive Tyrant be too much for them? What about a horde of Orks? That sort of thing.

EDIT: At first probably just some Orks because they're classic, and fun for people who are mostly coming from a D&D Background. I do want a good 'boss' fight at the end, however.

But after that my idea is to move them into a Space Hulk based campaign, where a little of everything might and likely will show up.

It really depends on how rules-savvy your players are, and how willing they are to push things. As we've seen in another thread, these guys can go one-on-one against a Bloodthirster, and come out winning. On the other hand, stuff like Horde rules can really get risky if you underestimate their potential damage output, given that higher Magnitudes mean a much greater span between minimum and maximum dmg, essentially making combat very random.

However, one easy fix to buff the team's size would be to add NPC Marines. In my Deathwatch game, we were only three player characters as well (Tactical as their Captain, plus a Techmarine and an Apothecary), but had two NPCs with us (Assault and Devastator), for a total of 5 - which was not only a good mix in terms of specialties, but backgroundwise also the minimum in GW's version of the Deathwatch which we've chosen to stick to.

Said NPCs were mostly narrative, as they were the ones most likely to be nominated to stay behind guarding a passage, or to take on the enemy in a flanking manoeuver, but they've also proven to be suitable reinforcements if the situation demanded. More because of their special abilities (jumping on an elevation or laying down suppressing fire) rather than just to add damage, though. We did enough of that by ourselves.

If you have the Inquisitor as a statted NPC, he or she could also join the squad as a 4th member wielding all sorts of powerful weapons or arcane devices, especially if you intend to have this Inquisitor lead them. However, as a player I'd have to say your group is missing out if they don't want to be led by one of their own. Their call, though, if no one wants to step up. Same as with that other thread in the Rogue Trader forum.

Yeah, as I said. At the moment not rules savvy at all. None even own the book yet, but there's a chance they'll get it soon enough. They're usually the sort to do such (And the LGS has some copies, which helps too).

I do intend an Inquisitor to be with them at times, because, yeah. No one stepping into a leadership, they aren't in our on hiatus Mechwarrior game either, didn't help when we lost the player who likes that sort of thing. Doh. But they'll probably be good with an Inquisitor. Of course, I don't intend said Inquis. to be there all the time because this should be about the PCs shining. And the crazy stuff an inquisitor would need and have to 'keep up' with the Astartes, while no more powerful than a Marine, is certainly flashier so might make the PCs pout a bit at first while they get used to the game and setting.

Probably supporting/supported by Stormtroopers or IG at times too. Which might be good to make them feel like they're bad ass while still giving them support?

EDIT: I'll also add I personally own most of the line of DH and Deathwatch, and no small amount of Rogue Trader too. So yeah, you're darned right they'll have fully statted NPCs at times.

Of course, I don't intend said Inquis. to be there all the time because this should be about the PCs shining. And the crazy stuff an inquisitor would need and have to 'keep up' with the Astartes, while no more powerful than a Marine, is certainly flashier so might make the PCs pout a bit at first while they get used to the game and setting.

Depends on how you use the Inquisitor in combat - if you discard the silly gun differences the book suggests between Marine and Human weapons, all he or she really needs is a good bolter to dish out roughly an equivalent amount of ranged damage. However, the Inquisitor would rely on the Space Marines to shield them from the enemy, placing the onus on the players to function as guardians and engaging the enemy in a way that doesn't leave their squishy friend unprotected.

It could be a tactical challenge all by itself, which the players have to consider when thinking about how to actually carry out their orders.

Probably supporting/supported by Stormtroopers or IG at times too. Which might be good to make them feel like they're bad ass while still giving them support?

That could work, indeed! Either using the Horde rules (would be more of a narrative background effect then), or ... well, if you want to give this a try, I'm still looking for people to test it and provide feedback. ^^'

our on hiatus Mechwarrior game

Now I'm jealous. Okay, not much because hiatus. But still, Battletech!

Shame you're not in Fargo, we need a fourth member of the lance! (Or even better someone to play or best of all GM the Deathwatch 'vacation' ) That said I have an AAR for it on RPGnet in the AAR section if you ever visit the site. We've had a decent amount of sessions! I'll probably do the same for the Deathwatch game too.

**** those geographical limitations. I've got a DCMS samurai that I've grown to like a lot, but I only ever got to play her in MWO so far. You're probably running a merc unit, but the character's background would have offered an interesting "crossroads" where I could have explored an alternative life as a ronin...

But sure, link those AARs. On the off chance that some day in the future I do get to play it, they might help me prepare for it.

Actually, a different question. How relateable/compatible is DH2 with Deathwatch? I haven't looked at it since the original Beta since I got bummed out when they said they were moving back to something more like the original and I said 'eff it, I've got the original' - but I do remember it was more... flexible.

Because I also hate how DH1 does advancement into inquisitor (Especially how one's interrogater paths actively replace Inquisitor ones). So I might just pick it up to do my NPCs if DH2 is still equally compatible (13k starting XP equal-esque to starting marine)

DH2 is closer to Only War in that it uses Aptitudes for a more freeform system rather than a fixed tree-based progression. In theory, I rather like its chargen and advancement method compared to DH1, but needless to say, it is different to how it works in RT and DW.

"Compatibility" between all 40k RPGs exists only insofar in that it's all based on the same underlying d100 mechanic: there may be subtle differences in regards to how certain combat mechanics or psyker stuff works, but someone who has actually played the game may be more helpful in listing those.

Balancewise, it doesn't even work in Black Crusade, and that is a single system written with the specific intent of mixing FFG's take on Space Marines and Human characters. The end result has yielded a plethora of band-aids to address the issues, from two-tiered Horde rules that work differently depending on who you are, to various special Traits such as Felling (granted, this has been around sooner, but I think we all know why it was introduced).

Lastly, I'll give my usual advice of not mixing systems, if in any way possible. Importing single NPC/enemy profiles or equipment is easily possible if you double-check all the stats and make sure to make it fit into the other game's own power scale (the reason for similar entities having different profiles depending on the book they show up in), but an entire character progression just sounds as if it would invite a lot of headache, especially if we consider how "well" Ascension was received.

Instead, I would suggest to keep to the chosen system (DW) and build your NPCs from itself. The core rulebook offers some useful examples already, and I think there was one adventure that had some cool Inquisitors in it, too. It comes down to what exactly you expect from this one Inquisitor, and how they ought to perform compared to your PCs, though. My personal preference would be to have him or her rely on the Marines as guardians due to being much squishier, but still being able to dish out comparable damage, thus not making them quite as much of a drag as a normal DH character without specialised gear would be. Because let's face it, a CSM with TB8 wouldn't be impressed by a DH bolt pistol - there's a reason FFG felt they had to buff Marine weapons from their previous stats in DH1.

About what I feared. Now I really hope we get a DH2 FULL COMPATIBLE Deathwatch, Rogue Trader, Etc. But FFG doesn't seem to like compatible lines.

I can sort of understand their reasons - now.

I still don't like it and would prefer a unified ruleset as well, but similar to how I've come to "get" why GW allows such a high degree of artistic license in its IPs, I can see why some people may just prefer it this way. It's certainly easier to focus on each game's unique theme that way, with rules and mechanics geared specifically to it. And Deathwatch is meant to be Epic with a capital "e", a bit like the movie 300.

Also, this makes it easier for them to update a game line and test new ideas. An evolution like that would bring a huge risk of invalidating earlier books from the same product line (we can see this in DH2 <-> DH1 right now), so it's also a way of limiting collateral damage.

Alas, it just happens to sabotage a lot of possibly cool stories from the franchise. A necessary sacrifice, I suppose.

Some of it may also be due to unforseen consequences, though. Given the many different iterations of Astartes gear, and the fact that stuff like Felling and tiered Horde rules have only been added retroactively (not to mention the infamous Errata where the changes were presented as a "suggestion to speed up dice rolling *WINK WINK*"), I have a strong suspicion that the issues with Unnatural stats or Toughness as body armour in general were realised too late, hence the band aids. Part of this fault lies with the Black Industries team for introducing these in the first place, though even they only copied it from WFRP (with the exact same problems ).

But don't just take my word for it. I'm sure there is at least one person who swears to the high heavens that you can perfectly play cross-overs without much of a problem, and perhaps they've got some advice on the subject. I'd remain unconvinced, but in the end, all of this is just one poster's opinion*.

(*: albeit reinforced by numerous threads posted by other players and GMs alike :b)

Which just makes me hope more that with DH2 they'll make an effort for a more unified line. I mean, I'm using DW as is for my upcoming game because it's what I have. But I find it far from perfect. It's just, well, what I have and I'm not the sort who likes using homebrews or trying to come up with other systems.

(Like I said, I really, REALLY dislike the specialty system. I think it's very athematic for Marines, and doesn't entirely fit in with some very iconic chapters at that. Maybe the majority for sure. But let's be frank, while the Smurfs and Codex chapters are by a long shot the most common chapters in the Imperium and would be in the Deathwatch. Players are going to gravitate just as much if not more to non-Codex ones like the Space Wolves (who don't even follow codex progression at all!), Salamanders, Iron Hands, and whatever else is cool to them. A more open ended CG system would solve that quickly.

With only 3 marines i would assign a medicae servo skull to them. Some one has to be able to retrieve the geneseed in case of death.

optional rule- change the medicae form a flat skill percentage for a flat 4 health return to 1d5-1 health per healing. That is a more reliable return for nicks and cuts. Spending all your fate points healing really saps the fun from the game I've found.

When we did an adventure with only 3 marines we had a blast as things kept swinging wildly between "We're invincible" to "this looks like a total party kill"

An important thing to remember (and to remind your players) losing all your wounds isn't the end, let alone even close to death. First you go through your wounds, then critical damage (which can end up being more than the first 20ish wounds), then you might have to burn a fate point. Only then are you at risk of actually dying.

And score! We found a fourth player! And one who knows the system at that! (Extra bonus. Has a copy of the book, yay additional copy at the table!)

Sounds like he's planning a Tac Marine at that. I am ok with this.

And Kami? Yeah, I like that Med Skull idea!

EDIT: And a Space Puppy at that. Man this is a prestigious Kill Team of First Founders!

Have you started a Mission notebook yet? It'll help with some of the preplaning, did for me.

Write out the objectives, list the oposition you plan to use. Get an idea of the Req points that will be given, if need be make a small list of stuff to req like special ammo or vox caster, things easily overlooked. If need be remind them thay are trained in all normal Astartes weapons, the Dev doesn't always have to carry a heavy weapon or the Tac can carry a heavy weapon.

The mission book can help with the type of missions you plan. Are you going to have the missions non interconnected, go here, go there.. Or maybe have it as a campain a bunch of smaller missions interlinked like clearing part of a hive structure.

For opponents, scoure the other lines an example is I used a spire slayer and Slinar warmachines in one and a Dybuk demonhost using a Rak'Gol marauder as a base in another.

To make a city fight more interesting, use snipers in a building at long range have them fire 2-4 times then leave, they will not know they left. Have it happen a few times spacing it out.

Good luck with the game and have fun with it

Oooh, thanks for the mission notebook idea. I hadn't even thought of that.

I mean, I know roughly what's happening. The start is going to be a pretty basic "Kill the Ork Warboss" mission, still figuring out my Secondaries and Tertiaries.

While after that little intro, well, there might be one or two more. We'll see. But it's all leading to a Space Hulk Purge where I'm coming up with a nasty little cluster of a hulk full of all sorts of gribblies. (A HUGE one, with parts infested by Chaos, others by 'nids (or at least Genestealers), the obvious Orks enjoying the good fight, and finally even a loyalist human holdout. But it's a must purge situation (naturally, there's IG and Stormtroopers and such involved too, but we don't care about them!).

So yeah, an initial setpiece or two to help us all get into the system, followed by a campaign.

EDIT: Actually, anyone know of a good Player Cheat Sheet online so I don't have to type one up myself? Something with little bits like action costs (Aim = half action for +10 BS, for example) so they have a quick sheet to look at?

I know exactly what you're talking about. I have that pdf with my RT files, just don't know where i got it. the site Darkreign has character folios that have it in also.