I mainly go to events because everybody is super chill and it is always a weekend to remember to look back on for multiple stories and whatever happened that was so great, but another reason to go is that I hope to get badass things I won't get by playing back at my local shop, unlike promo packs they've given out for the past two years.

Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for the prize support I've got for all the events I've played, and this is NOT an attack on FFG, but for the rest of my homies and friends and most importantly the many people of the UFS community who don't or didn't top 8, I felt bad cause they only get promo packs which don't even look good for the amount they paid to travel and stuff when they can sit at their local store and get the same stuff out of those promo packs.

Chubbs explained it the best:
"Prize support is like comfort food."

You play really hard and don't make top 8 because you either got shafted in swiss or got cut by diversity, or you're a new player and are just not that great at the game. You get something for trying anyways, and most importantly showing up and playing in their event. If your comfort food is steak and lobster, you will want to come back. If your comfort food is pop tarts and potato chips, you won't want to come back.

Nationals 07 - Everybody who played through swiss and didn't top got THREE packs of both Xtreme Rivals and Soul Arena, plus the promo packs. That was badass and made me want to come back for Worlds, which I did. Stores complained that giving out free packs hurt their sales. Umm, giving out BOXES in top 8 is what hurt their sales. Giving out a few packs for each player is NOT going to hurt their sales at all. Therefore, give out packs to people who didn't top while you give out other badass things to people who DID top, like binder sets, life counters, plaques, artwork,uncut sheets, stuff like that. It evens out the prize support so prizes for the people who top aren't overshadowing the prizes for people who didn't top.

Worlds 07 - Because I topped at both Team Worlds and Singles Worlds, I didn't realize that everybody who didn't top didn't get a single thing. I found that out on Friday when Steve told me that he didn't understand how Worlds 07 was the best event ever but they didn't give out a single thing as a participation prize or consolation. That really pisses me off.

Nationals 08 - We were dead last in Team Nats cause we messed around, and we ended up getting 3 pieces of artwork, which was pretty ballin as a booby prize. Singles, none of us topped, and we all got crap for prize support.

Worlds 08 - Tapout made TOP FOUR in Team Worlds and only got Monster Energy Drinks, which looked badass on the outside but was a real crappy prize that you can buy at Walmart or a local gas station. They took our addresses and promised to send us a "badass" playmat, which turned out to be the Morrigan Playmat that everybody got for that one prerelease or other event it was. Plus, it came 4 months late, but that was because of the Olympics in China, so no argument there. Steve even said to us that the prize that we got was bull. Chubbs also made top 16 in Singles Worlds and didn't get anything besides the playmat that was promised to our Team. Absolutle crap unless you made top 4 where you got an iPod tutch or something like that. I do remember that everybody got a pack of Set 10 or whatever, but IIRC, that was an apology because of the whole Grinder situation and not a planned prize.

Nationals 09 - We were pretty pissed because we got crap for teams because we didn't top, which only added to our view of the game tacking onto the stale meta, which is when we talked with Steve about it. Singles was the exact same way except I topped, meaning I got good stuff while my teammates all got crap in their promo packs.

These are the only major events I've traveled to. From what I heard, the Canadian Nationals prize support was also a bunch of crap as well. So actually, the prize support went from REALLY good from Nationals 2007 to total crap for Worlds 2007 ALL THE WAY to 2009 where we're at right now. Two years of crappy prize support.

Other things like Foil Light Hearted for the regionals was a kick in the balls. At least one I went to had the foil Red Lotus.

When Tapout talked to Steve at Nationals on Friday, he took our concerns with the prize support into question and consideration. We were grateful he actually sat down with all of us and listened to what we had to say. He asked us if the binder sets were a cool prize and we all agreed that they were pretty badass. He also said that he couldn't give out packs anymore because of what happened at Nationals 07. This is where we all came in and said that a couple packs to each player won't hurt sales at all but the boxes given out in top cuts was the real killer. It's actually people buying boxes off the internet which hurts store sales, which is why Chubbs and I will never buy boxes off the internet. He also said that Path of the Master was a success and everybody was happy with the prize support. Well no kidding, it was the only event where you could get POTM at, plus it wasn't held in a convention where you had to pay some retarded fee for a badge.

Thus said, Steve told us that he is going to work on the prize support for Gencon. I really appreciate how he is doing that and I hope prize support turns around and becomes something that is worth going to a major event for.

The problem in my case is that participation prize support (because let's face it this is what we are currently talking about) at major events is just the tip of the iceberg, the cherry on top, the straw that broke the camel's back, to be precise.

It is sad when an entire meta says : "We're going there because at least we know there'll be prizes there." So pardon me if I don't want to get in that debate (a more polite way of saying "I don't give a crap even though I should be concerned because I will never make top 8 at a major event ever.") but there's a whole lot of wrong going on and... well, consolation prizes is slightly lower on the totem pole.

Actually shane we got advance league cards like widow makers armoed defense and all that stuff for participation at worlds 2007. But honestly that was the best UFS I hope we can get back to that one day.

And OTOH I thought we were paying cash money to join up with each other, laugh, hate on each other, and PLAY THE GAME TO HAVE FUN, not win stuff...

(thought I totally get your point, Penquin).

I am getting poor turn outs for all of my events because of the current prize support, no one wants reprints as prize support, everyone just uses thier original copy and that's it. The reprints are getting picked last, not to mention the characters as of late have been really sub-par, you should have used the new Jubei, Victor and Padma as prize support, save reprints for league kits (which by the way, the current league kit ahs 1 good card and everything else is garbage)

I know you will not be foiling cards in sets, but will prize support and league kits still be foiled?

Steve said they are re-vamping the whole OP system. I can't go into specifics tho.

The best prizes in my opinion are event-exclusive promos either for showing up or making top cut. It sucks to get nothing for coming all the way out to play but many other games are the same way. For YuGiOh only the top cuts get cool stuff. The rest will get either booster packs or nothing.

I hope that GenCon prize support will be awesome but I'm not going to put my hopes up too far. I'd be less likely to be disappointed if I expect less and be more grateful when receiving something I did not expect.

Shaneth said:

Weren't they already revamping it? Guh.

Another 2 months of no promos as soon as this hits.

I totally agree with Shaneth.

Standard (non-topping) participation prize support for big events like Nationals and Worlds (and maybe even city or state championships) should be an exclusive. This can be advance packs (not boxes) of a future set, this can be alternate artwork promos, this can be a this-event-only doohicky (like UFS pens or socks or something that won't be available at future events), but it has to be cool, and everyone has to get some.

Make all players feel loved, not just the winners.

I would never expect advance packs of sets anymore, considering they can't get sets out on time, much less have them ready a month early.

worlds 07 was the best becuase me and my play group was there....lol

but seriously that was like the best time in UFS the meta wasnt stale yeah there was some broken stuff floating around but everyone had there share out of the 7 games i played i only played 2 decks playing the same symbol and they were completely different i loved those days and i still love ufs now as long as im not at some competitve tourney where i see the same things over and over again people need to get imaginative like in my playgroup nobodys playing any over powered characters or deck types

the top decks right now at my store are a R. Mika deck which is absolutely sick with her enhance and hybrid style, a mitsurugi fury of the ancients deck, and my ukyo boomerang raid deck. Not stale at all and i love it

we got Kingdom Hearts cards as prize support at Can. Nats...

quarzark said:

Those were not sent up by FFG in the kit of support that was overnighted. Folks at FFG have no idea how those got there.

Antigoth said:

personally, I thought it was funny. I was also drunk at the time. The fact is, they sent an overnight kit, which was awesome of them.

I don't mind not getting massive amounts of prize support as long as I get my money back that I put into getting the tournament ticket. I came to a convention, my badge is for that convention, I don't expect FFG to give me 35-50 dollars that they don't owe me, I would like to just get compensated for spending an entire day of a convention at a tournament. Worlds should also have epic prize support, mainly because it's worlds, and I felt sorry for one of my teammates who during singles '08 got basically nothing because he never won his matches when promo packs were on the line. It's just rough when you're playing and you know that even if you top 8, you might not even make up the price of the badge and the tournament and the traveling.

I just want to see more promo characters again. I'm sick of too broken cards for prize support that you need to pay an arm and a leg for to get your playset. (cough Olcadan's cough Chester's) While it's ture I have a binder of characters, some of which I'll never use, it would be nice to see some promos for cahracters we havn't seen in a while, like Abyss or characters from the current licences we havn't seen yet.

Shaneth said:

A few questions and an argument to address your concerns from a different perspective.

1) How is it that we can find boxes and packs online (or if you live in SoCal it's about a 30 minute drive from most places) for less than what FFG charges through their own site? (Seriously I don't know the answer to this) I mean, don't all the packs come from the same place?

2) If shops are worried about losing sales, why do they charge nearly twice as much as any of these other suppliers for boxes and expect people to buy from them exclusively? Having to pay $85 plus tax for a box is ridiculous when just about anyone can get two boxes for a few dollars more.

Here's the thing. The stores we play in have to know these cheap suppliers are out there and they have to understand that no matter who you are, if you can get the same product elsewhere for a lower price then people aren't going to buy your product. I've seen stores sit on whole boxes for months because they charge so much when we can just go down the street or online and get the same thing for almost half what they ask for. I know we have to support the stores or we have nowhere to play, but I just don't understand why store owners purposely sit there and charge more than most players can afford each week and expect to continuously sell product.

I play at two shops right now. One of them charges a $5 entry that gets you a pack of choice, and that shop gets anywhere from 6 to 12 people a night for our weekly tourney. That I don't have a problem with, the store moves product and I get shiny new prize cards for next to nothing. Although the owner still charges $4 a pack outside of the entry fee, which isn't really in my best interest to buy regularly, I'm willing to believe the store at the very least makes back what it put out for the boxes in the first place in just a few weeks.

The other store I play at only had 4 of us for a while, doesn't charge an entry fee, and only recently got 2 more players to start showing up again. The owner pretty much lets us hang out half the day and still get promos for free, so maybe once or twice a month we'll all go and buy a bunch of packs. That I don't really have a problem with. Each person spends $20 to $50 a month, usually searching for rares that we end up trading around anyways, and the store owner gets to move product along over a decent and predictable amount of time. The owner knows his player base is limited and doesn't push us to buy anything at all, but again for some reason has to charge the same high prices we try to avoid. Only this time it's more of a compromise because if we don't buy up what's on the shelf he won't order what we really want.

Now I'm all for entry fees or for supporting shops and buying a few packs here and there, but when a new set comes out or when I really need a box or two I'm always going to go to the cheapest option. For me that's a 30 min drive in the middle of the week or a 10 min stop on my way down to the store to get what I need at half the price. And it's not just UFS this supplier sells. Magic, YGO, and one or two others at least, means this one guy sees more people and sells more product in one day than most stores do in a month. So then why, for what reason do stores charge the prices they do when so many suppliers are readily available to any of us? It's something I just don't understand. Maybe you guys know something I don't.

Economics:

Company tells producers to make things. It is, and is shipped to FFG warehouses (or perhaps some shipped straight to some distributors). Then it is purchased by distributors (or had already been purchased) at, say 40% retail value or something WHOM THE GAMING COMPANY PROBABLY HAD LIKE>>> CONTRACTS AND STUFF TO GIVE them that deal. Then Local Gaming Stores buy these from the distributors, paying for them, like... 50% or 60% the retail value. Then they sell it to you, and charge retail value.

Its how it works. Distributors get the first stab at these things because THEY BUY A LOT OF THE PRODUCT. that is how game company makes money is because they're giving a deal to these guys because they're buying a ton of it.

I mean why do you think Walmart or Sam's Club or your local chain grocery store is cheaper than the mom and pop stores? Because they buy in bulk, and/or have that secret hand shake deal already established with the providers of these objects.

Do you think your Local gaming store can afford and be able to buy several hundred (thousands? IDK) of boxes of each release and make profit and be able to store it? ... yeah I didn't think so.

There. Now you know.

If you don't support your Local Gaming Store they will go out of buisiness. If they are out of buisiness you have no where to play the game. You have no where to play the game the game suffers. And so on, until the only things that are left are the big two or three games, and games that dont' require being face to face to play (like say MMOs and Video Games), or games that do very well ona casual level / have a well established big level tournament structure already in place (the big three games, MtG, YuGi, Poke MAYBE WoW TCG).

All other games die. Thanks for playing.

I THINK this is how it works. Granted I'm not actually IN the industry myself... so yeah. Take that above analysis as you will.

2) If shops are worried about losing sales, why do they charge nearly twice as much as any of these other suppliers for boxes and expect people to buy from them exclusively? Having to pay $85 plus tax for a box is ridiculous when just about anyone can get two boxes for a few dollars more.
Here's the thing. The stores we play in have to know these cheap suppliers are out there and they have to understand that no matter who you are, if you can get the same product elsewhere for a lower price then people aren't going to buy your product. I've seen stores sit on whole boxes for months because they charge so much when we can just go down the street or online and get the same thing for almost half what they ask for. I know we have to support the stores or we have nowhere to play, but I just don't understand why store owners purposely sit there and charge more than most players can afford each week and expect to continuously sell product.

A store has to buy it's product from a distributor, the distributor gets their product from FFG. A lot of these online stores can sell stuff for so cheap because they either are distributors and sell to the public for a little bit more then they sell to stores for or they buy so much product from their distributor they have a massive discount on product (most distributors give discounts to store based on how much the spend quarterly). Most local stores don't (and simply can't) buy the massive amount of product these online stores can buy thus their discount will be no where near as good meaning they can't sell product for as cheap as you can find it online because they are almost playing the same price. I think most stores get boxes of UFS for around $45 (and some maybe even more), Cool Stuff sells theirs for $55 now. If I store would sell them for $55 they would be making a lousy $10 profit per box. That's almost nothing considered that they actually have to pay for an actual location and all the other overhead a store does that a web site doesn't. Sometimes when I owned my store I actually bought stuff from online stores because it was cheaper then I could get it from my distributor, just think about that when you wonder why a store is selling something for more then you can get it online.

Also, in the case of CCGs, online retailers can sell their product for cheaper as they don't just sell pre-packaged boxes/packs. The singles market is far more profitable than the sealed product market. A good example of this would be shortly after Deadly Ground came out Coolstuff had 2 US Airbase listed for $40 each, and someone on this forum (name escapes me) admitted to buying them. $40 for one card, and you can get a box for $55. With one card from a box they've made over 70% of what they'd make with said box, with another 239 cards from that box to make up the difference and then some. The power cards from a box add up to more than the sealed box's worth.