I'm noticing a large trend in these threads of people wanting to add new and complicated mechanics to the existing system. Why?

I mean, don't get me wrong, some of you have come up with detailed and well thought out (and surprisingly well produced) new rule sets, but what do they add to the game? How does a system that lets you take one of thee bonus action when doubles are rolled in a pre-set category, or books that level up, or complicated possession tables, make the game more balanced or more fun or more intuitive or more realistic or more atmospheric?

I get making changes to tweak balance (like only counting negatives that roll over your base stat) or making changes to the scenarios so that you can play the game that appeals to you most (like doing werewolves instead of zombies), but what's with adding more rules for the sake of having more rules? What problem are you trying to solve?


...I don't know that I'm really posing a question here, which isn't really fair of me. I'm just baffled by the trend. Maybe the answer is, "I just enjoy the game development side of things. Rules are fun, yo." That's a fine answer I guess, but I feel like I must be missing something here.

Whilst I agree with the above, I am contemplating allowing stress to be taken in categories that it wasn't received from...

Whilst I agree with the above, I am contemplating allowing stress to be taken in categories that it wasn't received from...

What I don't get is when people want to add whole new game mechanics, not just make small rule tweaks.

I actually allow (or mandate) that stress be taken in other categories in my game too, but I'm not referring to simple balance or house-rules like that. Taking cross-category stress works better from a storytelling perspective, it's a simple change that is doing work for you, not a new rule-set, designed from the ground up.

Whilst I agree with the above, I am contemplating allowing stress to be taken in categories that it wasn't received from...

What I don't get is when people want to add whole new game mechanics, not just make small rule tweaks.

I actually allow (or mandate) that stress be taken in other categories in my game too, but I'm not referring to simple balance or house-rules like that. Taking cross-category stress works better from a storytelling perspective, it's a simple change that is doing work for you, not a new rule-set.

Some people just love to (re)design rules!

I prefer to play RAW, if I have to start rewriting the rules, I'm probably playing the wrong game...

Agreed. What I'm finding really nice about the simplicity of the system is that I can focus on the story and creating tension without a lot of rolling or rule debating going on.

...some of you have come up with detailed and well thought out (and surprisingly well produced) new rule sets, but what do they add to the game? How does a system that lets you take one of thee bonus action when doubles are rolled in a pre-set category , or books that level up, or complicated possession tables, make the game more balanced or more fun or more intuitive or more realistic or more atmospheric?

Since you specifically mentioned my Career Skills mechanic (which lets you gain one of 3 benefits with "pre-set" actions) I suppose this is specifically directed at me. Thanks for the mention?

I'm noticing a large trend in these threads of people wanting to add new and complicated mechanics to the existing system. Why? ...I feel like I must be missing something here.

As one of those people who like to add new and "complicated" mechanics, allow me to help she's some light on this subject.

...some of you have come up with detailed and well thought out (and surprisingly well produced) new rule sets, but what do they add to the game? How does a system that lets you take one of thee bonus action when doubles are rolled in a pre-set category , or books that level up, or complicated possession tables, make the game more balanced or more fun or more intuitive or more realistic or more atmospheric?

Since you specifically mentioned my Career Skills mechanic (which lets you gain one of 3 benefits with "pre-set" actions) I suppose this is specifically directed at me. Thanks for the mention?

I'm noticing a large trend in these threads of people wanting to add new and complicated mechanics to the existing system. Why? ...I feel like I must be missing something here.

As one of those people who like to add new and "complicated" mechanics, allow me to help she's some light on this subject.

Sometimes games just cannot or do not take all interests or subjects into consideration. This is why games come out with new editions or updated errata; as players play, they do things that the game does not cover, and new rules and content needs to be made. This why some games have massive indepth textbooks. Other games, like this one, have oversimplified rules, and just let gamers hash it out.

This is also why expansions exist. The designers release new mechanics and content to the public, sometimes based their own ideas, sometimes based on fan requests. Sometimes, they do not release content that satisfies the fans, or sometimes they do not release content at all.

This is where fan-made content comes into play. Players have the ability to make the content they wish to see, content that may take a long time to be released officially, if it is ever released at all. It also gives people the ability to see the game how they like, or how they wish the designers would have made it but didn't.

Sometimes the mechanics are to increase character personalization and customization which may be missing from the game, or to make aspects of the game more balanced or realistic. Something people simply do it to add an intriguing new mechanic to the game because it seems fun.

Sometimes these additions work as intended, and sometimes they bog the game down with unnecessary details and rules. It really depends on the experience of the home brew designer, and often it depends on how well the game system can successfully incorporate these new rules.

But really, this "large trend" has been around as longer than just these forums; they've been around as long as gaming has been around. Some games even openly promote homebrew design; te Zombie Roadtrip board game has 5 pages at the end of the rulebook for custom rules to be written, and the DND online forums have had their own Homebrew Content / House Rule forum since I first joined back in 2005, which had way more threads than all their other forums combined.

In fact, fan-made content is so important and wide-spread that some designers even incorporate the content into future editions of the games. Before the weapon upgrades/special ammunition made it into Fallout New Vegas, it was a fan-made mod for Fallout 3, and the mod was so popular that Bethesda contacted the modder the help incorporate it into their new game.

Ultimately, people really just do it because they "just enjoy the game development side of things. Rules are fun, yo," and if you don't like it, you don't have to use it

This, this, and this.

In responce to the OP, in short, most likely these people have been playing PnP games for years, and are used to games with more 'detailed' rulesets. Indeed, I've been gaming for several decades and tend to prefer systems with more detail. Not overly complex, just detail. Also, people like to put their own touch on things. People alter their cars with engine transplants & wild paint, or build their computer to spec. Most people change their desktop away from the usual OS labled wallpaper, or some have their favorite song as their ringtone on their phone. With rpgs, people change/alter the rules to refelect what they want or feel is not working well for them. For them . Not you, them. It's a rpg, and nothing is cvarved in stone. Want to change something, add something, remove something? Fine, do it. Or if you like it as is, that's ok too. Neither answer is wrong. Both are right. With one caveat, that if any rule is changed or added, all players must know how it works with the system, and all must OK it before use.

I also think that a minimalist ruleset such as this just BEGS to have some detail added that reflects the play style and personality of the group in question. Too many RPGs railroad players into a set way of doing things and cover every conceivable nuance, leaving less to the imagination and lends more into the "game accounting" mindset. How many people have you met that pour over every line of a system and look for the min/max loopholes? I bet you've met a few... if not, feel free to invite me to a game table, I'll show you what I mean

But then there is this system... if you have a table full of open minded, true to the core "roleplayers", then this is RPG gold to them. But there are very few players out there that could sit at a table and have a great time just talking about their character and the action... most nowadays need maps, character sheets, dice, sound effects, projectors, pizza (wait, what's wrong with that?) and sundry other niceties to add "ambiance". They don't have the true roots of role playing, they have the current generation "its just a video game that you play on a table" mentality. And I'm not saying that's wrong, just that it's the kind of mindset that needs guidelines.

So anyway, back to my original train of thought before I got sidetracked by "the good old days". If the rules as written work good for you and your group then I am happy for you. If your group needs a bit more structure, then house rule away.

And thank you to those who are posting your house rules and pointing out tools that help. In a game like this, it's the community that helps it get out there and makes it better.