Hey gang, I've got a friend here that I occasionally play X-Wing with. Truth be told, he got into the game before I did. But we took vastly different paths after that point. I went all in, reading articles, playtesting ideas, downloading Vassal, starting up a game day at a FLGS. My friend does, well, none of this.

As such, my skill level has advanced to a point where I'm just a better player than he is. But now, he wants to get involved with the game more deeply, and I'm happy to oblige, as I always welcome more hobbies to share with my friends and more opponents at the table.

This has brought us to the point where he now asks me several times a week to review/critique any theorycrafting he does. Which I absolutely don't mind at all.

What I do mind is giving him honest and accurate feedback, only for him to tell me that I'm wrong, that it'll work better than I say it will, and that he thinks it will be super competitive against some of the more popular meta-gaming lists.

My question is, aside from simply destroying him at the game table (which might turn him off from the game for good), how do I get him to realize that he's on the right track, but he's a few steps off?

Any ideas here would be greatly appreciated.

Smash him a couple of times, and point out where you're advice applied. For example if you want to show him why PTL is so critical to Interceptors, highlight how many times the second action achieved something useful like getting out of arc or giving you a token that mattered.

That said, unconventional lists can do quite well if they're built to destroy the meta. I don't know how closely your area follows tournament builds but in other games I've seen the meta become so narrow that simply bringing things that had unusual properties could throw people off their game.

Incidentally I was recently in a similar position but my friend has expressed an interest in having me weigh in on upgrades after he picks his ships. Since his main weakness is spending lots of points on questionable upgrades I expect this will work out nicely.

Let him Play what he wants. Its the only way he'll learn what works and what doesn't and just because something on paper looks bad doesn't mean it won't work in practice.

What are some of the thing's he's asked you to critique? It can be hard for someone to just "accept" that taking thing R2-F2 action is worse than taking a focus action. You can help by showing maths to some extent, but often times people will have to roll that focus focus blank in order to realize they would have been better off with the token. Then again, there are some that just refuse to believe that (I'm pointing more at you SD vs. Hull than R2F2).

But you could also try offering other suggestions such as adding Experimental interface. Now you get both the focus and the agility (for the cost of a stress, mod, and 3 points). Heck, you could put this on someone like Wedge, where you put Marksmanship as his EPT, and now he has the choice of R2F2 + F for defense, or Marks + TL for offense.

I have a friend that does not take feed back well, he'll use expose on wedge or countermeasures on dash etc.

I'd be happy to help him but he acts offended when i offer advice so i stopped trying, i never use meta lists but i am alot better at movement than him so i have a big edge there and he wont use anything but rebels so he's of course doomed.

Try stomping your mate but it may not work and you may just have to let him do whatever he wants.

Let him play and figure out if his theories are right or not. I mean, theory is all talk and no trousers. The meta we hear about on the internet and in Vassal doesn't necessarily hold up locally, where a good tactician can take Tarn Mison and the Bandits to a tournament win.

You almost certainly have an advantage at this point, and if you're a good friend and a good sport you should just play each other and see how things shake out. Prove it on the table and just say, "Well, maybe you're right" if your friend is steadfast about theories you think are inaccurate.

I wouldn't try to trounce the guy to prove a point, but let your competing theories settle their differences where it matters. I've found that the game is alluring enough (because it's freakin great) that losing a match just stokes the fire. You regroup and try something different until you strike upon something that works. Sounds like your friend needs to go through that process like everyone else.

Kind of proud of ourselves eh? Maybe just play and let the chips fall where they may. You might find you are overestimating your own abilities.

Well, here is the most recent list I've been trying to help him with:

Wedge Antilles (33 points)

• R5-K6
• Swarm Tactics

Luke Skywalker (36 points)

• R5-P9
• Draw Their Fire
• Shield Upgrade

Biggs Darklighter (31 points)

• R2-F2
• Stealth Device

100 Points total

So, yeah, the bare bones are there, it's just the upgrades that seem problematic to me. I've tried helping him before, and I have other list ideas he has to review, so I'm just trying to figure out how I can get the point across without being rude or completely destroying his spirits at the table.

Kind of proud of ourselves eh? Maybe just play and let the chips fall where they may. You might find you are overestimating your own abilities.

And maybe he's not and genuinely does not want to slaughter his mate game after game.

Is it possible for him to play other people? Maybe he will have better luck? Or someone else can smash him and it won't be so confrontational.

I wouldn't shut him out completely b/c sometimes people find new ways that really works for them. Everyone flies differently.

Good luck!

Kind of proud of ourselves eh? Maybe just play and let the chips fall where they may. You might find you are overestimating your own abilities.

I had a long response typed out to defend myself here, but it's totally unnecessary to do so. You don't know the situation, so you're speaking out of ignorance. I've offered to play the guy several times, but for whatever reason, we can't get together for a game. I will be happy to play him at my next opportunity.

Is it possible for him to play other people? Maybe he will have better luck? Or someone else can smash him and it won't be so confrontational.

I wouldn't shut him out completely b/c sometimes people find new ways that really works for them. Everyone flies differently.

Good luck!

I've tried to get him out to some of the local games, but when his work doesn't get in the way, he straight up told me he didn't want to play against different players because he was scared they'd beat him so badly. He wants to practice against me until he gets better, even though I've told him that the way I got better was by playing against many different people.

I'll still play against him any chance we get, and I hardly ever run "optimized" lists against him. Last time we played, he had three Dagger Squadrons with FCS and HLC on each. I was running YYYZZ.

Don't contradict him. Prove him wrong via beating him. And if you can't, maybe he's onto something.

Our knowledge of what's "best" comes from this forum, so we're not that much better.

If that's the case, I say the best you can do is offer your advice. If he doesn't want to take it, then you play him and show him. Sometimes people gotta see it and roll through it. If his goal is to get good, then he will learn the most by losing.

That's not a terrible list for a newbie to have come up with. The theory seems pretty sound, actually. Let him play it and then refine it afterward.

I probably wouldn't bring that list to a tournament, but a new player with a buddy should be able to get in some practice games before trying to compete.

You can't force him to play Fat Han, and even if you could, he's not necessarily going to understand how it works. Just let him figure it out. Why do you need to be the authority on it?

That's not a terrible list for a newbie to have come up with. The theory seems pretty sound, actually. Let him play it and then refine it afterward.

I probably wouldn't bring that list to a tournament, but a new player with a buddy should be able to get in some practice games before trying to compete.

You can't force him to play Fat Han, and even if you could, he's not necessarily going to understand how it works. Just let him figure it out. Why do you need to be the authority on it?

The list is a tweak of one I set up for him, and you're right, I can definitely see where his thought process is going. I'd do the upgrades differently, but it's not my list to run.

And I wouldn't claim to be an authority on this at all. I'm a very middling player when it comes to the local meta. But the guy asked me for input, and I tried to give it to him. Every final statement I've made is for him to "put it on the table" and we'll see how it goes for him. Hopefully we can get a few games in sometime soon.

You can't force him to play Fat Han,

Encouraging Fat Han is evil.

Well, here is the most recent list I've been trying to help him with:

Wedge Antilles (33 points)

• R5-K6
• Swarm Tactics

Luke Skywalker (36 points)

• R5-P9
• Draw Their Fire
• Shield Upgrade

Biggs Darklighter (31 points)

• R2-F2
• Stealth Device

100 Points total

So, yeah, the bare bones are there, it's just the upgrades that seem problematic to me. I've tried helping him before, and I have other list ideas he has to review, so I'm just trying to figure out how I can get the point across without being rude or completely destroying his spirits at the table.

Well, take it constructive. Tell him why this list would work, what the good points are. Then just focus on the least optimal build: Wedge.

Ask him why he took Swarm Tactics, pushing Luke to 9 isn't that useful and Biggs is going to die so after Biggs dies that's two points gone to waste. And pushing Biggs to 9 while he is unfocused without a TL isn't going to do all that much either. You know this of course

Luke is okay, Biggs isn't good but not that terrible and he can wait until later.

But do try to avoid stifling his creativity and pushing him towards auto-includes.

And instead of beating him, switch lists. Let him fly yours and you take his out for a spin.

And instead of beating him, switch lists. Let him fly yours and you take his out for a spin.

I like this a lot. I'm definitely going to run it this way and build him something I would normally play.

If he just doesn't trust your advice send him to some of the other places, like these forums, where you've gotten advice on how to get better and perform better. Sometimes a lesson is learned better through a different teacher.

When advise has been given about why something may not be the best idea yet he chooses to go with it then crush him. This is best if you can do it without something that is specifically built to destroy his list. Once this is done you can point out what happened and if possible offer to trade sides assuming your squadron was one he can play.

Squad building is important but not the end of all things. Play a game. Switch sides using the same squadrons. See which factor, squad or player, remains the same.

When I was first introduced to the game I would build silly lists that I thought looked cool and would have fun flying. These are the golden days of X wing, Let him enjoy them while they last.

Once you start Net Listing and seeing what people think about certain combos it will completely change the way you look at this game.

I'm not saying X wing isn't fun anymore, just saying it's a lot more innocent in the beginning than when you go competitive.

There's nothing wrong with telling him, no that upgrade won't work well with those ships, and if he is stubborn about it let him make the mistake himself and let him come to you for improvements when he's not as stubborn. If he will just give up if you smoke one of his lists than he isn't cut out for Xwing because it's a ever changing and adaptable game that will take experience to get good at.

Edit * - Good Engrish

And instead of beating him, switch lists. Let him fly yours and you take his out for a spin.

I like this a lot. I'm definitely going to run it this way and build him something I would normally play.

Be careful. You might be setting up a lose lose situation for you and your bud. If he is the kind of person that is so inclined he may take it as: If his list wins (meaning you) then you are proving him right in that he shouldn't accept your help and if he wins the it is only because you purposely played bad to prove your point. If he is that kind of person then I would suggest take StevenO's advice and let him post his lists here, or play him and beat him only by a little bit. No need to crush someone who is still learning.

Also you mentioned that he won't play other players until he practices with you but I also got the impression he won't practice with you because stuff keeps coming up. Who is he playing with then? Maybe Vassel would be good for him. He'll get trumped for sure, but better to be trumped by a faceless, overweight 30 year old nerd that still lives with mama (that's how I envision my opponents when I loose, it makes it easier to take) than not play at all.

How about you turn him to the dark side, he could be a powerful ally.

And instead of beating him, switch lists. Let him fly yours and you take his out for a spin.

I like this a lot. I'm definitely going to run it this way and build him something I would normally play.

Be careful. You might be setting up a lose lose situation for you and your bud. If he is the kind of person that is so inclined he may take it as: If his list wins (meaning you) then you are proving him right in that he shouldn't accept your help and if he wins the it is only because you purposely played bad to prove your point. If he is that kind of person then I would suggest take StevenO's advice and let him post his lists here, or play him and beat him only by a little bit. No need to crush someone who is still learning.

Also you mentioned that he won't play other players until he practices with you but I also got the impression he won't practice with you because stuff keeps coming up. Who is he playing with then? Maybe Vassel would be good for him. He'll get trumped for sure, but better to be trumped by a faceless, overweight 30 year old nerd that still lives with mama (that's how I envision my opponents when I loose, it makes it easier to take) than not play at all.

This is the unfortunate part. I am absolutely the only person he plays against. And it is only a couple of times a month, if that.

I've tried to show him how to use Vassal, but he says he gets overwhelmed by it and doesn't like using it.

The big issue is that he wants to become "competitive" at the game, but either doesn't have the time or doesn't want to make the effort to put in the practice. I have absolutely no problem with the casual players, just as I have no problem with the competitive ones. And if a casual player wants to come to me to help him make the jump to competitive, I'll be happy to assist. But the burden falls on him to actually have/make the time. If he can't/won't, it's not a bad thing at all. But if it's what he wants to do, he has to find the time to play the game with more regularity.

In general, I think swapping lists with him is a good idea--particularly if you play a game, swap, then play again.

But beyond that, just do what you're already doing: offer constructive criticism and encourage him to practice. If he doesn't, then his lack of progress* isn't on you.

(*Defined from my perspective, that is. If he's happy where he is, moving away from that isn't necessarily progress at all.)