Hi all - just a quick two questions that I cannot seem to find the answers for, and I feel that they are putting a skew on out games...

1) Bleed: if you are full on strain, do you HAVE to use an action to remove it, as it is not a force effect, or can you choose to do another action, and take the strain - which then converts into a damage point?

2) With the Nexu, does its movement from point a to be mean that once it reaches it destination, it get put in whatever space it can occupy? - reason is our Imp player moves it 6 sqaures, but now it has gained an extra square of movement as that is all that can fit, then he pounces, meaning it has traveled 11 squares from where it stared due to its base size. I know it can do this during pounce, but normal movement?

Just because he seems to like putting it in the way wherever we go, so we have to kill it, but then uses the Subversive tactics cards to gove it better defenses and cause us damage and strain... we are getting to the point where we have not won any but the first game of 5, and we cannot seem to get the hang of this game against an experienced Decent player (This is our first go at any of this style of game...)

Thanks

1) You are not forced to remove bleed. Yes, if you are full on strain, you would take damage instead. Dont bleed out! Blood is important!

2) No. The movement rules are quite clear for large bases. He must "slide" the base one square at a time and cannot get "extra" movement out of it. Large bases also cannot move diagonally. (This is a change for those of you who play Descent). You are correct that "Pounce" works differently and he would get the extra square from Pounce.

See "Movement Examples", RRG, Page 27 where they specifically call out the Nexu's Pounce ability and show how you "slide" large bases one square at a time.

Thank you for the advice. I have tried to convince the Imperial player of this, but as far as he is concerned, the bleed has to be gotten rid of, (He maxes us out on strain) so it works like a stun, and costs us an action, and the nexu is becoming so fast we cannot get away from it.

Hopefully I can use help sway him to agree with me...

he can't disagree. it's in the rules

RRG page 23 "Strain in a campaign: If an effect forces a hero to sufferstrain that exceeds his Endurance, he instead suffers one damage for each strain he cannot suffer"

Once you max out your strain tokens on your hero, you can't "voluntarily" gain anymore unless you rest first. But bleed is not voluntary strain. is forced. so you gain damage instead.

watch out trandoshan hunters and elite imp officers...

His argument is that is does not say 'Force' on the bleed card, therefore it is not something I get to choose not to do, as i cannot choose to take another stress when i have no more room for it..... it is becoming very difficult to get him to see any other way...

I just checked the page 27, and although I have used this as an example to him, he said that because he is moving the correct amount of spaces, he gets to do this... Is this right? Because it is a square model, he is using the large figure rule which says that it must occupy at least half the sqaures it started on...

Am I better to just give up?

Sorry to be a devils advocate...

yes, the card doesn't say "force" but is not something you may do voluntarily. if you move or attack, you gain 1 strain. you can't prevent that. Is up to you if you use one of your actions to remove the bleed effect or keep moving/attacking while bleeding.

on the other side, Stun for example, forces you to remove the condition first (again doesn't say force) but it doesn't allow you to attack or move "voluntarily" unless you use an action to remove it.

Now you know you can take more strain even if you are on your limit.

about nexu. the rule to occupy at least half of spaces is when you rotate a large figure. RRG Page 16 "A Large Figure may spend one movement point to rotate 90 degrees (note that this is only necessary for figures with bases that occupy two or six spaces). When doing this, the large figure must still occupy at least half of the spaces it occupied before the rotation" as you can see, this only applies to large figures with bases that occupy 2 or 6 spaces. not to nexu (nexu occupies 4)

As Fizz said, Nexu moves sliding one square at at time, so he will move 6 squares with one movement action, not 7

With Pounce, nexu does something different. it doesn't move, it places. Place is different. With place, figure is removed from its current space and placed where indicated. Doing this nexu may win an additional square of movement because placing has this rule

RRG page 16: "if an effect places a large figure in a space, the player resolving the effect chooses the figure's orientation. It can be placed in any legal spaces as long as part of the figure's base is in the space instructed"

you would use pounce, then count 3 spaces from nexu and as long as the desired square is occupied by nexu, it can be placed the way you want (and as long as is still valid, remember you can't place nexu on top of other figures)

The rule he mentions that a large figure must occupy at least half the sqaures it started on, is only used for rotating and has no relevance for a nexu

A large figure may spend one movement point to rotate 90 degrees (note that this is only necessary for figures with bases that occupy two or six spaces). When doing this, the large figure must still occupy at least half of the spaces it occupied before the rotation.

:

With normal movement you move one square at a time like with a normal figure.

Well Roolakhol was quicker.

Never give up, never surrender. Sounds like your Imperial player is a bit of a hoser. Best thing you can do for the first question is submit an official question to FFG through the site, although if it helps you can tell him literally no one else on the forums plays it that way. As far as your second question is concerned, I'm having trouble visualizing what you're saying regarding the nexu. All he is allowed to do is move it orthogonally one space. Is he like, ending his movement halfway on top and halfway past your figures or something and then saying he's allowed to take another space to go past? Because that's crap. It specifically says in the rules that you cannot end your movement while occupying the space of another figure.

haha Luther Engelsnot , The Force is strong with me

His argument is that is does not say 'Force' on the bleed card, therefore it is not something I get to choose not to do, as i cannot choose to take another stress when i have no more room for it..... it is becoming very difficult to get him to see any other way...

Sorry to be a devils advocate...

You can "choose" to take a rest action, clearing strain, and then at the end of that action, you'll get another strain.

You can "choose" to spend an action getting rid of bleed. Discarding the condition token.

You can "choose" to ignore the bleed condition, and be forced to take 1 point of strain at the end of the action.

The key here is that you cannot spend strain voluntarily if this would cause you to exceed your Endurance, taking strain due to a harmful effect is not voluntary. Voluntarily, you take strain BEFORE you perform/modify an action. Bleed isnt a voluntary cost, it is a harmful effect.

Sounds to me like your Empire player is trying to be a rules lawyer without first being certified by the bar. He/she is not very good at it either. You tell him/her that Fizz on the internets is right, and he/she is wrong, and he/she needs to deal with it.

Reference:

"Strain in a Campaign" RRG, Page 23:

• A hero cannot choose to suffer (strain) if the amount of (strain) he has suffered would exceed his Endurance. This includes suffering (strain) to gain movement points or using abilities with a (strain) cost.

• If an effect forces a hero to suffer (strain) that exceeds his Endurance, he instead suffers one (damage) for each (strain) he cannot suffer.

Never give up, never surrender. Sounds like your Imperial player is a bit of a hoser. Best thing you can do for the first question is submit an official question to FFG through the site, although if it helps you can tell him literally no one else on the forums plays it that way. As far as your second question is concerned, I'm having trouble visualizing what you're saying regarding the nexu. All he is allowed to do is move it orthogonally one space. Is he like, ending his movement halfway on top and halfway past your figures or something and then saying he's allowed to take another space to go past? Because that's crap. It specifically says in the rules that you cannot end your movement while occupying the space of another figure.

Just to clarify what I meant with the Nexu:

What I think should happen:

_ _

N N I_I_I N N

N N I_I_I N N

Nexu has moved 4 spaces. one point has moved 4 spaces, and moved forwards.

His argument:

_ _ _

N N I_I_I_I N N

N N I_I_I_I N N

then nexu moves 4 spaces: from one red N to the Next it has moved 4 squares. because of the 50% rule, he says he can put it in the other four sqares, as this is how it works. this gets him effectivly an extra square of movement. not much, but when he can do this two or three times a go it will get ridiculous. - he already does it with the E-Webs, making them a hell of a lot more mobile than we think they should.

This, along with the fact that he seems to just cause us so much strain that we cannot do any extra stuff or heal, just makes the game seem ... no longer fun. for any of us.

Ah well.

Hopefully i can get this to him and get us some help. Our next mission is Under Seige, so I shall see what can happen. The card has an ATST on it, so with his movement rules that might be the fastest thing in the game,,,,

I don't understand how he can possibly think that is correct. That's not even an intuitive way to think of it. What he's doing is essentially rotating (which by the rule says you're only allowed to do with non-square pieces) for free at the end of the move. You move the nexu by sliding it one row of squares at a time orthogonally. You can never just say oh it can pivot however it wants around that point. Nexus specifically cannot pivot because they are a 2x2 unit.

Also if what he was saying were true you'd be able to do the same thing with an E-Web or, scarily, an AT-ST. It clearly is not correct. Besides, he could just do that between every single movement and effectively double the movement of the nexu to be 12 spaces instead of 6, which is insane and clearly not right. I'd refuse to play in a campaign if the rules were being that fragrantly ignored.

The 50% rule only applies to turning and specifically states figures that are 2 spaces or 8 spaces big. Nexu are 4, square, and do not turn.

Your Empire player is a bit too thick in the skull. If he/she will not listen to reason, stop playing with them.

[_][_][_][_][_] [_] [_]
[_][_][_][_][_] [_] [_]
[ N ][ N ][_][_][_] [_] [_]
[ N ][ N ][_][_][_] [_] [_]
[_][_][_][_][_] [_] [_]
[_][_][_][_][_] [_] [_]

imagine nexu move 3 spaces to the right. it would be like this

[_][_][_][_][_] [_] [_]
[_][_][_][_][_] [_] [_]
[_][_][_][ N ][ N ] [_] [_]
[_][_][_][ N ][ N ] [_] [_]
[_][_][_][_][_] [_] [_]
[_][_][_][_][_] [_] [_]

Diagrams designed using Fizzgrid™ Technology!

Sorry for the many posts, but I just realized you said he's quoting the 50% rule which is something you can disprove quite easily. Have him read the rule again. It said it only pertains to 1x2 and 2x3 figures, not 2x2. What's more, it says right in the rule that it costs a movement point to do it, so it actually works out the same which is why they said 2 and 6 space figures only because it's just plain unnecessary.

Edit: Yes, what Fizz said. Ninja'd.

Cool - Thanks for the clarification!