Is there any other time that could also happen?

Yes if when time is called both sides have destroyed the same number of points.

I apologize by draw I meant in the context of this thread. So quite litterally taking a draw without ever playing the game on agreement with ones opponent.

I apologize by draw I meant in the context of this thread. So quite litterally taking a draw without ever playing the game on agreement with ones opponent.

In the rules, there are 3 ways for a match to end:

• All of one player's ships are destroyed
• Time is called
• One player concedes

Of these three possibilities, the only way to intentionally draw would be to play for the full time and agree not to destroy each other's ships. This would result in a draw where players have equal points. I still fully consider this collusion, but my point is that there is nothing in the tournament rules that would allow players to end a game early unless one player concedes to the other, which would be scored as if all of his ships were destroyed.

Would it be slow play to basically never set your dials for the full time limit of the game, if you opponent doesn't complain about it or does it as well?

Would it also be collusion if one player decides to concede a match because they don't see a chance to win, and want to have more time between rounds? They are purposefully affecting the tournament results in the favor of their opponent who would possibly get less points if the game went to time.

I guess the reason I ask these questions is because I don't think the rules are completely Black & White, there is some Gray in there that is left up to the TO.

Really, draws are allowed in this game? That's a new one to me. I know people can agree to draws in chess (done all the time there), but in X-Wing?

Weird...

(My stance is that all games should be played out to their conclusion, whether the annihilation of one side or the calling of time. No forfeits, no agreed draws. That is to prevent collusion and MoV rigging.)

I played a 3 B-wing list, 2 of which had HLC's. Every roll would be something dumb like Hit Focus Blank Blank, and when Target locked would end up either the same or just slightly better. Every time a decent roll happened on my end, my opponent would end up god rolling defense.

At the end of the match damage was so spread out on my ships that none had died, and neither had any of his, so we ended up getting a draw lol.

Considering a draw to be a collusion to manipulate scoring is taking vague wording too far.

If they asked the T.O. first then the TO should have just said no and then have them play out the match. Lots of people seem to jump on the instant DQ train without knowing enough about the situation at hand.

There was a similar incident in Wisconsin where the same poor attitude was prevalent. Its quite distressing to see the visible, vocal members of the X-Wing community jump to conclusions and going on witch hunts at the slightest mention of something that infringes on their personal definition of "Fly Casual".

I'm a new player to the game and I've been relatively turned off from ever going to a store to play, instead just opting to play with my friends. The typical progression that I see happen is that a new person is welcomed, given tips, advice, etc but as soon as someone brings up something even remotely controversial suddenly they are an enemy of the game.

Would it be slow play to basically never set your dials for the full time limit of the game, if you opponent doesn't complain about it or does it as well?

Would it also be collusion if one player decides to concede a match because they don't see a chance to win, and want to have more time between rounds? They are purposefully affecting the tournament results in the favor of their opponent who would possibly get less points if the game went to time.

I guess the reason I ask these questions is because I don't think the rules are completely Black & White, there is some Gray in there that is left up to the TO.

I don't think those necessarily qualify as collusion. In the first example, slow play is a separate issue from collusion but is still part of unsportsmanlike conduct. If both players are just slow, though, as opposed to intentionally stalling, that can't be helped. However, if both players are playing slow specifically so that they draw because they know it will get them both in the top cut, that would be collusion.

In your second example, the player who is conceding is doing it so they can have more time between games, not so that their opponent can move on. While that will affect scoring, it's different from collusion where your actions are to intentionally to manipulate the scoring.

Considering a draw to be a collusion to manipulate scoring is taking vague wording too far.

If they asked the T.O. first then the TO should have just said no and then have them play out the match. Lots of people seem to jump on the instant DQ train without knowing enough about the situation at hand.

There was a similar incident in Wisconsin where the same poor attitude was prevalent. Its quite distressing to see the visible, vocal members of the X-Wing community jump to conclusions and going on witch hunts at the slightest mention of something that infringes on their personal definition of "Fly Casual".

I'm a new player to the game and I've been relatively turned off from ever going to a store to play, instead just opting to play with my friends. The typical progression that I see happen is that a new person is welcomed, given tips, advice, etc but as soon as someone brings up something even remotely controversial suddenly they are an enemy of the game.

I'm not sure anyone is saying that draw=concede. Some people have asked questions about certain situations, but I think the general understanding is that you don't agree to split a game just to make sure you both get into top cut.

I don't know what happened with you in Wisconsin, but the topic at hand has nothing to do with "Fly Casual" and everything to do with the tournament rules as written. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences.

I'm a new player to the game and I've been relatively turned off from ever going to a store to play, instead just opting to play with my friends. The typical progression that I see happen is that a new person is welcomed, given tips, advice, etc but as soon as someone brings up something even remotely controversial suddenly they are an enemy of the game.

I don't know how it is there in Wisconson, but it's not that way here in central Texas. I made the DQ statement based on the fact that the OP said they both took draws to make the top cut. That is the definition of collusion and it is expressly forbidden by FFG's tournament rules. If the TO did anything other than DQ the players, he was not following tournament rules. Harsh as it is, all they had to do was goof off for the time limit; FFG did not DQ the fortress player at worlds, so as long as you are attempting to play in a timely fashion, you'll be fine.

It's a shame you cannot find friendly players in your area, maybe it's all the dairy in you guys' diet.

I'm not sure anyone is saying that draw=concede. Some people have asked questions about certain situations, but I think the general understanding is that you don't agree to split a game just to make sure you both get into top cut.

I don't know what happened with you in Wisconsin, but the topic at hand has nothing to do with "Fly Casual" and everything to do with the tournament rules as written. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences.

Didn't happen to me. I've never been to a store to play X-Wing, only at my house with my friends. I heard about the incident on the Wisconsin X-Wing Facebook page.

4 pages of tournament rules is pretty vague. Obviously, tournament X-Wing is young and the rules and situations will need to be better defined.

I'm a new player to the game and I've been relatively turned off from ever going to a store to play, instead just opting to play with my friends. The typical progression that I see happen is that a new person is welcomed, given tips, advice, etc but as soon as someone brings up something even remotely controversial suddenly they are an enemy of the game.

I don't know how it is there in Wisconson, but it's not that way here in central Texas. I made the DQ statement based on the fact that the OP said they both took draws to make the top cut. That is the definition of collusion and it is expressly forbidden by FFG's tournament rules. If the TO did anything other than DQ the players, he was not following tournament rules. Harsh as it is, all they had to do was goof off for the time limit; FFG did not DQ the fortress player at worlds, so as long as you are attempting to play in a timely fashion, you'll be fine.

It's a shame you cannot find friendly players in your area, maybe it's all the dairy in you guys' diet.

If they asked the TO if they can draw at the beginning of the round, then the TO should have told them a draw isn't allowed and they need to play the game out. It was never explained or clarified whether or not they asked the TO at the start of the round.

Too many assumptions are being made that those players were actively breaking rules they knew about. This is exactly indicative of the behavior I outlined in my previous post.

Actually, the rules say the TO "may" disqualify the offenders. So the rules actually leave quite a bit up to the TO. If the two players are good customers that buy a lot of product at the shop, and the TO is an employee or store owner, they don't have to DQ if they feel like it would ruin a relationship with some loyal customers. Sounds shady to me too, but the tournament rules don't actually force disqualification.

Is there any other time that could also happen?

Yes if when time is called both sides have destroyed the same number of points.

I guess I should have been more specific. Is there any other way to get a draw BEFORE time is called on the game with both sides in the tie situation?

Is there any other way to get a draw BEFORE time is called on the game with both sides in the tie situation?

Not that I can think of. Since most ways that a ship gets destroyed happen immediately simultaneous fire and time being called are about it.

Fly a ship off the table, take damage from an obstacle, take damage due to a crit, ect... all would happen right away to there's be one ship left on the table.

Even if you had two ships with Console Fire, one would roll first and be destroyed before the other rolled.

If they were locked into the top 4 I don't see the issue, its the same as a football team resting it's starters before they playoffs, x wing is mentally taxing and the brain rest is a real reward to blowing out ones opposition. Now if they both needed a set mov to advance then that's shady and problematic

For clarification this was a father and son who were both 3-0 after 3 Swiss rounds. They met in the 4th of 5 rounds and decided to split points ensuring that they would both be in the top 4 after the 4th round, most likely giving one of them or both a shot at winning.

The TO seemed to feel that it was shenanigans but not strongly enough to DQ them or take other action. Thankfully neither player won the tournament.

Is there any other way to get a draw BEFORE time is called on the game with both sides in the tie situation?

Not that I can think of. Since most ways that a ship gets destroyed happen immediately simultaneous fire and time being called are about it.

Fly a ship off the table, take damage from an obstacle, take damage due to a crit, ect... all would happen right away to there's be one ship left on the table.

Even if you had two ships with Console Fire, one would roll first and be destroyed before the other rolled.

Nope, you still need to finish the round.

So, if your last ship is destroyed by an asteroid, Console Fire, flying off the board, prox mine, etc, you might get lucky and have the same happen to all your opponent's ships.

Heck, you could drop a Seismic Charge or Proton Bomb before flying through an asteroid, detroying your ship and have the Bomb kill off the remains of your opponent's squad.

Edit: Seems I was wrong. Sorry 'bout that!

Nope, you still need to finish the round.

No you don't.

From the core rulebook

When one player destroys all of his opponent’s ships, the game ends and that player wins.

From the Tournament PDF.

Each tournament match ends in one of the following three ways:

• All of one player’s ships are destroyed (respecting the Simultaneous Attack Rule, Rules of Play, Page 16). The player with at least one ship remaining immediately earns a Match Win

For the sake of being complete, from page 16 of the core rulebook.

When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than its hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed

[...]

I stand corrected!

I stand corrected!

Hope I didn't sound like a jerk Was a little preoccupied trying to fix something so I was a bit more terse than I would like to be.

I stand corrected!

Hope I didn't sound like a jerk Was a little preoccupied trying to fix something so I was a bit more terse than I would like to be.

Sound like a jerk?

All you did was quote the appropriate sections of the rule book.

If both players can make the top 4 cut with a loss, one can concede the round and be done. Concessions are totally legitimate. If they need a draw to both make it, then they are colluding to keep another player out of the top 4.

Sound like a jerk?

I know... But when I read it again it sounded a bit terse to me, and I didn't want it to come off as "No it doesn't!!! here's the rules!"

Nope, you still need to finish the round.

No you don't.From the core rulebook

When one player destroys all of his opponent’s ships, the game ends and that player wins.

From the Tournament PDF.

Each tournament match ends in one of the following three ways:• All of one player’s ships are destroyed (respecting the Simultaneous Attack Rule, Rules of Play, Page 16). The player with at least one ship remaining immediately earns a Match Win

For the sake of being complete, from page 16 of the core rulebook.

When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than its hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed

Is simultaneous fire resolved for ships at same Ps?

Nope, you still need to finish the round.

No you don't.From the core rulebook

When one player destroys all of his opponent’s ships, the game ends and that player wins.

From the Tournament PDF.

Each tournament match ends in one of the following three ways:• All of one player’s ships are destroyed (respecting the Simultaneous Attack Rule, Rules of Play, Page 16). The player with at least one ship remaining immediately earns a Match Win

For the sake of being complete, from page 16 of the core rulebook.

When the number of Damage cards dealt to a ship is equal to or greater than its hull value, the ship is immediately destroyed

Is simultaneous fire resolved for ships at same Ps?

Yes.