... I just played D&D attack wing last night and it was really really fun. It added several elements (quite seamlessly) to the flight path system that actually made dog fighting system more interesting.

When I played Wizkids' Star Trek Attack wing it felt like a much less subtle version of X-wing, where ships tended to have inferior dials, fewer agility and more attack dice. Any conversation on this forum where someone is talking about something being OP makes me remember the Borg Cube that can go in any direction it wants and has 6 attack dice. Or the Voyager equipped with 10 attack dice torpedoes. I do like Star Trek Attack Wing, but I do think it is an inferior game (mostly do to poor balance).

However, I really really liked D&D Attack Wing, which if you are not familiar with, is about dragons and other fantasy creatures fighting.

It adds tons of fun things to Flight Path that I really like. For example most Dragons have breath weapon (you do have to take it as an upgrade) ranged attack, and as far as I can tell they are all area attacks. For example my red dragons breath weapon can hit everything within range 3 (there are 4 range increments in this game) but he can only do it every three rounds. While he waits for his breath weapon he has to use his melee attacks. This mixing of ranged and melee attacks makes for a very interesting game. Also different attacks have different arcs. Like my dragon's bite is forward arc up to range 2, his tail is rear arc up to range 2. I even took a wing attack that could attack only the side arcs. When I heard that dragons all had a Boba Fett range 2 tail attack I was very skeptical, but it actually really worked.

The other huge addition was the new stat of armor as a different defensive stat. Armor just cancel hits with no rolling. But lots of attacks ignore it. This adds a new way to be defensive. For example I played with a Silver Dragon with armor of 3, but it also had 0 agility. So basic attacks had real difficulty hurting this guy, but magical or breath weapon attacks that ignored armor gave him real trouble.

The last point that needs to be mentioned is just how cool it looks when you are playing. I remember before I read my first Dragonlance book, that franchise evoked awesome images dragon locked in combat high above the battlefield. That's not what those books were about, but that is what this game is.

Apart from the gushing review I do have a few small concerns. First, I am not sure that Hobgoblins, even a unit of 6 of them really belong in a game where you have multiple dragons. There are lots of units in this game besides dragons, some of them are cool, but I just can't get behind some of them (I haven't played with anything other than a wyvern) so they may be cooler than I give them credit for. My second concern has to do with the pre-painted figures. Some of them are amazing. My red dragon is seriously one of the coolest dragon figs I have ever seen. Some of the other figures just need some touch up, but some of the figs just look bad. This is partly due to the fact that fantasy figures just require more different colors and more shading than space ships do.

So what does this whole article have to do with X-wing. (Well if you read this far down you probably don't care) I was getting a little worried for X-wing as a game. We have now dipped pretty deep into the EU. And I was getting worried that we might be coming close to exhausting what we can do with this flight path system. D&D Attack wing shows that we have only scratched the surface.

But its Wizkids. So, enjoy it for now, they are going to screw it up somehow...

Like all wiz kids its starts great. Just wait for the Borg dragon that can move anyway it wants.

Sithborg and Bloodstripe, you are both right. That is why I probably will never consider this game very very competitive play. But they left themselves so much room to maneuver in building new units that it may take longer before we get to Borg level power broken. I do expect a lot of power creep.

So how do you think this game would work for a STAR WARS Hoth ground battle?

Thanks for the review, it was an interesting read.

However, I'll never move away from X-Wing! It's the fact that this game is Star Wars that really gets me excited about it.

Just look at how many expansions are out for this already. Then tell me how thoroughly playtested and balanced you think they all are. Because for the Star Trek version, the answer was, "Not very."

Played it a couple times and was 'meh'. In the absence of ground troops the flying was boring and the dragons felt too much like generic airplanes. And while the ground units add some variety (and considerable expense) they become such a huge part of the game that it's more an overly simplified generic fantasy skirmish game with dragons than a dragon-fighting game.

I DO NOT trust most companies with my game money like I do FFG. Wizards of the Coast is another company that has a knack for completely wrecking games. I used to play Star Wars Miniatures and it was fun for about 4 waves then WoTC completely wrecked it. These companies seem to not be able to comprehend that power creep makes people sick of throwing money down the toilet. FFG understands this. I play X-Wing and Lord of the Rings LCG regularly and there are core set components that are still as viable as ever. In X-wing particularly there are pilots like Wedge that are still extremely good. Not only do they keep a better balance but they are VERY proactive at tweaking things that aren't working like the Tie Advanced and A-Wing. Anyway Star Wars>dragons.

Given the success of X-wing, I would not be surprised if FFG later re-purposed the rule set for another IP

On the other hand, with Episode VII coming out and Disney helming the franchise, we might squeeze out a few more waves yet

Just look at how many expansions are out for this already. Then tell me how thoroughly playtested and balanced you think they all are. Because for the Star Trek version, the answer was, "Not very."

The short answer is: this is Wizkids not FFG. There just isn't even an expectation for the same level of balance. But their is so much variety built into the system, even if their isn't as much balance as you might like their isn't going to be one list or type of list that dominate play.

Saturday i was down in Manchester and i got my first chance to see it in the flesh and urgh, bad paint jobs and ugly models same as most wizkidz junk and i knew i'd never spend cash on it.

Played it a couple times and was 'meh'. In the absence of ground troops the flying was boring and the dragons felt too much like generic airplanes. And while the ground units add some variety (and considerable expense) they become such a huge part of the game that it's more an overly simplified generic fantasy skirmish game with dragons than a dragon-fighting game.

One of the biggest surprises for me was how little the Dragons felt like planes. They are so big that even a range 2 attack felt like it could be a melee attack (remember range 2 is shorter in this game than it is in X-wing)

It is a generic fantasy skirmish game. It was never advertised as anything else. And I am not sure about the ground units, my only experience was playing against a frost giant, and that unit seemed pretty cool.

It is more like a monster throw down skirmish game rather than your plucky band of heroes skirmish game, so it lies in a niche that is far from overcrowded.

There are around six people that play the game in our area. One has jumped headfirst into it and bought everything. I am kind of skirting the edges of it. Collecting dragon minis is another hobby of mine so I like the idea of having them for a game as well.

Overall I think the game is 'meh'. The combat did get better once people got more expansions. The store has the first tournament kit so I'll pull people in for that one go then it'll just share a spot with xwing night.

playing against a frost giant, and that unit seemed pretty cool.

I see what you did there.

Just look at how many expansions are out for this already. Then tell me how thoroughly playtested and balanced you think they all are. Because for the Star Trek version, the answer was, "Not very."

The short answer is: this is Wizkids not FFG. There just isn't even an expectation for the same level of balance. But their is so much variety built into the system, even if their isn't as much balance as you might like their isn't going to be one list or type of list that dominate play.

I can't speak for D&D, but I saw first-hand a Trek Attack Wing tournament where six of the eight players were not only using Borg, but had the exact same builds. I believe WizKids even had to errata the use of Borg ships in OP because they'd become so prevalent.

But its Wizkids. So, enjoy it for now, they are going to screw it up somehow...

This.

I really wanted to play D&D AW. I did. But WizKids has just killed my enthusiasm for the game. I was a clix player but not anymore (waves to Sithborg from realms). The only product I plan on buying that they have any involvement in is the new D&D board game. And that's only because WotC is the primary brand on it.

Wizkids has made some cool thematic stuff for Star Trek Attack Wing. The Borg are great thematically, but just shouldn't be a playable faction. The blind boosters for the OPs get old really quick. The thing might start out fun, but they'll quickly add things that break it, reverse rulings, move cycle developers faster than an airlock, and inadvertently introduce all sorts of game-breaking things. They really don't seem committed to their products long-term, just putting out as many releases as possible and then moving on to the next thing. When they can't be bothered to even check basic spelling, it's hard to believe they're going to put much care into their games in the long term.

As far as variety in the system. Look at how many Star Trek ships there are. Then look at how many people use. Most all of the cards are dead on arrival. There's just an initial honeymoon period before people pick up on which ones are going to be super effective and the knowledge diffuses throughout the player base. One of the first things to wreck Star Trek was "Conditional Surrender" in the first OP prize, but it took a few months before people realized how easy it was to abuse.

My wife is a fan of Dragons. Can't even tell you. When I proposed, I actually learned how to fold a dragon, and I hid the ring inside it. When we watched the Hobbit movie(s), she rooted for Smaug. She is not, however, into Star Wars. At all.

Every time I mention how interesting DND Attack Wing looks, she gives me the side-eye and says "You are not going to get me to play X-Wing just because it has Dragons!" It's like she knows me.

And then we play some League of Legends. Because the couple that ganks together stays together.

I love the borg but i wouldn't play them if i did AW because of how OP they are, i hate playing the really strong stuff in games.

Just look at how many expansions are out for this already. Then tell me how thoroughly playtested and balanced you think they all are. Because for the Star Trek version, the answer was, "Not very."

The short answer is: this is Wizkids not FFG. There just isn't even an expectation for the same level of balance. But their is so much variety built into the system, even if their isn't as much balance as you might like their isn't going to be one list or type of list that dominate play.

To be fair, Wizkids at least fixed the terrible costing system in Star Trek. Not sure how rigid of a formula they have for D&D and how much leeway playtesting (heh) gives them, but at least stats aren't a single cost.

My wife is a fan of Dragons. Can't even tell you. When I proposed, I actually learned how to fold a dragon, and I hid the ring inside it. When we watched the Hobbit movie(s), she rooted for Smaug. She is not, however, into Star Wars. At all.

Every time I mention how interesting DND Attack Wing looks, she gives me the side-eye and says "You are not going to get me to play X-Wing just because it has Dragons!" It's like she knows me.

And then we play some League of Legends. Because the couple that ganks together stays together.

I would tell her that it really felt like dragons locked in an areal melee to me. She might not like playing games with her dragons. But If my wife loved dragons that much I'd get her the starter set just for the great dragons in it.

The red dragon is gorgeous (it does require a bit of boiled water to spread the wings a bit). I would say the blue is really nice too. The copper is good as well, I just don't care so much for weird wings that D&D gives all their good dragons now. It is also a little mono-chomatic and could use a good wash.

If you don't want to push the game as much the two dragons released as expansion The Shadow-Black Dragon and the Silver Dragon are both really excellent. The silver is a little mono-chomatic, but it is just beautiful sculpt.

I echo all that has been said of Wizkids so far and add, I hate that they just reuse all their old models for these new games. The same figures have been sold before in other systems, and while that's not totally unforgivable, they look like ****.

STAW works a lot better with scenario type gameplay and thematic builds, rather than min-maxed tourney crap. However I've never been a big fan of tournaments, sucks the fluff and fun out of everything and leaves behind a metagame skeleton (all the mechanics without the fun), imho. I bought a few ships I like and I really like Star Trek, but I'd never buy as much as I did with X-Wing (mostly because with wizkids you get less quality in models and game components at a higher price...). X-Wing is also a bit easier to get into, I think, although I like the customization and scenario options you get with STAW. Still, I'd also say that X-Wing is the slightly superior system overall.

A Borg cube is - as it should be - insanely strong, however if you have a mission (like the one that comes with the tac cube), it can be beaten. So for STAW:

1. Ignore Tournaments, OP stuff etc.

2. Create and play scenarios with thematic and limited forces.

3. This allows you to ignore power creep.

4. Profit.

As a matter of fact I'd recommend that for any game, because in my experience thematic play, limited forces and victory conditions other than "blast them!" are a lot more enjoyable than the gazillionth free-for-all fight with min-maxed lists on steroids, but that's just me I guess. Also unshackles you from the dreaded "meta" and its "required" purchases.

Dragons don't really interest me that much, but I like the "recharge" mechanics with the hourglass tokens. I think it's cool to see the Flightpath system used for so many and so different games. I'd be on board with a WW2 version (with all the X-Wing stuff like dials etc.) as well, Wings Of War lacks a bit from what I've heard.

Agree with the OP. D&D Attack Wing is different and it's DRAGONS!

There's more to think about in D&DAW than there is in X-Wing. The multiple flight levels are difficult to master, coming from a X-Wing background.

I haven't played enough games, yet, to find the broken builds. When they're discovered, we might just impose some house rules or agree (like gentlemen) not to use them.

I don't see it as being a serious tournament game but it sure is a lot of fun.