OK, on a more serious note, I'm curious about how people handle the opening strategy in Arkham. I usually play with two to four, and often I'm playing solo.

One thing I tend to notice is that I always want to rush to grab clues and hop in a gate as soon as possible to try to keep gate openings and the doom track under control.

I find myself avoiding shopping and engaging monsters unless I have to. I get this feeling that shopping and combat waste precious time that I may not have. I know sometimes that someone will be left without much to do, especially in the midgame when when when most of the initial clues have been taken and some investigators don't have enough to seal. I personally find that with 4 investigators that there isn't a lot of time where someone has nothing to do - either s/he is getting clues, closing Gates, or managing some other crisis.

Obviously, in a game with more players there is more opportunity for this since there are more investigators to manage the crucial aspects of the game: gathering clues and sealing Gates. It's enough for me to manage 4 investigators solo. I think more might fracture my mind.

So, guys and gals, what are your thoughts on this?

Well, strategically speaking, you're playing the way I play, so, I can't say much against what you suggested. The game has quite some mental traps (rumors, monsters, fancy things to do and cozy items) but in the end is a run against time to have six seals on the board. Anything forcing you out of the way of the seals is a waste of resources.

As my friend Dam used to say, when he posted on this board: "pressure, pressure, pressure"

(sounds like you're ready to start the Advanced Players League, Jason)

The only thing I do differently is If I start out with a character that has money (at least $5), I farm for at least one elder sign, and then go out into the world again. And I think you and I play the exact same way XD

Becca,

that's why you won't be seeing any (but one, in Kingsport) Elder Signs in any of the expansion decks. Farming for ES becomes more and more difficult as the game evolves (but with core set only, especially if you play Monterey, it's a strategy that could pay off)

That's totally what I gathered. I'm glad they made that little cheat harder

Yup. They still made some stupid stuff for which you may want to farm the deck. Eltdown shards + Ashcan Pete, for instance, or Members of the book club that combined with Eltdown shards or De Vermis Mysteriis give you an insta-win *SIGH* some cards must be returned to the box after use

Well, strategically speaking, you're playing the way I play, so, I can't say much against what you suggested. The game has quite some mental traps (rumors, monsters, fancy things to do and cozy items) but in the end is a run against time to have six seals on the board. Anything forcing you out of the way of the seals is a waste of resources.

As my friend Dam used to say, when he posted on this board: "pressure, pressure, pressure"

(sounds like you're ready to start the Advanced Players League, Jason)

I'd ask what the Advanced Players League is, but I noticed the convenient link in your signature. Just glancing at some of the documents you posted, it sounds like fun. However, though I have all three city expansions, I don't own any of the small box expansions. How much of a problem is that?

-- Jason

It's not a huge problem per se, since most of the components coming in small boxes that are actually needed for the League can be proxied, but it could be a problem because of the Mythos deck being different. Any chance that you could upgrade your collection? This would make everything a lot more enjoyable.

I'll check with Avi (the creator) about running with no small boxes in the mix

(also: be ready, difficulty is about to rampage *a lot*)

Jason,

I just checked with Avi. No probs with that, feel free to join, if you wish. There's only one problem in the third segment of the League, when you'll have to proxy the Exhibit item deck (but you can find the item on arkhamwiki)

It's not a huge problem per se, since most of the components coming in small boxes that are actually needed for the League can be proxied, but it could be a problem because of the Mythos deck being different. Any chance that you could upgrade your collection? This would make everything a lot more enjoyable.

I'll check with Avi (the creator) about running with no small boxes in the mix

(also: be ready, difficulty is about to rampage *a lot*)

I've been coveting the remaining expansions for a while now. There is ... a chance for an upgrade to my collection, though I imagine I would probably need all four small box expansions and I would want to get Miskatonic also, to deal with dilution, and add variety.

There may be something else I could do. I'll look into it.

Jason,

I just checked with Avi. No probs with that, feel free to join, if you wish. There's only one problem in the third segment of the League, when you'll have to proxy the Exhibit item deck (but you can find the item on arkhamwiki)

That's good to know. I feel stupid for asking this, but what exactly is the League and how do I join? I found the post you make on BGG with the scenario files and such, but I'm not sure what else is involved.

I'm out for a couple of hours with a friend; gonna cover this when I'm back home, be patient

Ok, so, back to the League questions.

The League was born with the intent of showing advanced users the real potential that comes with the game. Looking at the game increasingly deeper and bringing the game experience to new limits. It was also created with the intent of showcase custom material, created by fans during the years. Why? Simply because some of the custom creations are simply superior in design to many of the official creations (with all due to respect, the Lurker at the Threshold Herald is everything but a Herald). Clearly, this is not meant for the occasional player (who will be butchered merciless) and ideally is thought for the really advanced player, which means those who have mastered the game to the point that they win at least 80% of the games they play. This doesn't mean that someone less experienced is not welcome to try; au contraire, everyone's welcome to try, simply because playing the League will open the mind to a deeper strategical level in the game.

The League is structured over a series of 24 Scenarios interlaced by a narrative depicting a possible end-of-the-world Scenario. It's the divided into 4 subsections, each consisting of a variable number of scenarios (5, 7, 4, 8 respectively) characterized by a certain common theme. There are some bonus Scenarios that will be made available after someone completes the 24 in the "normal" League. There's a reason behind: when Avi designed the League, most of my creations were still to come; after that I asked him if I could design some bonus scenarios to showcase my creations, and got a green light in response. So, the Scenarios will be made available after someone passes all 24 Scenarios in the League (so far, I'm the only one who "won")

Everyone completing all the 24 scenarios will be considered "winner" of the League. There's no time limit to complete the Scenarios, and the League will be running as long as I'm alive and as long as this site and BGG will keep on running (or there will be an international AH community I'm involved with). Hence: take all the time you need.

Also, forgot to mention: there are two "modes" to play the League, normal and hardcore. Rules for hardcore mode are somehow more challenging, so, I strongly recommend to start the League in normal mode. Then, if you see that it's too easy for you, you can switch at any time on hardcore mode, no probs at all with that.

Please post all your stories and comments in the Fan Creations section of the forum. You'll notice there that there are two pinned threads, one with scenarios and files in eon format and this thread where the first chronicles of the League were collected. Feel free to refer to the latter link if you want to check how the different teams tried to pass the different scenarios, and post there your comments, or open a specific thread as Eagermind or Dj2.0 did, so that all your stories are forever kept in just one thread.

For any question, just ask me and I'll be more than happy to help, both with strategy and rules questions.

A very important point: remember we are here for the journey. Winning is sweet, but the aim of the League is to provide challenge and fun and show what you can really do with this game. Some scenarios are just like puzzles to solve; some other scenarios are simply brutal; some others could result in a cakewalk: all of them are beatable, so, don't be scared.

Well, I do love to dive deeply into games, so it sounds perfect for me. I'm a very analytical person and my life pretty much revolves around finding an optimal strategy for everything, which I'm sure bugs the heck out of the people close to me.

I think the difficulty level is going to punch me in the face. I'm going to grab the materials tonight and look them over.. and try not to run away screaming.

Well, then... welcome

I'm no great expert, but yes, that's basically what I do, try and grab as many clue tokens as possible, when they're on the board. On one play through I pulled an Elder Sign from the initial draw and the player had 4 tokens, so they made their way straight to a gate, but actually picked up another clue, so they had the choice wether to use a sign or clues.

I played a 4 investigator game (solo), I sort of split the board in half along the long edge and had 2 players covering the gates, then the other 2 working at either end, grabbing clues, shopping, clearing monsters etc. This way I always had support, for one player near bye, should they need it. Of course certain situations may require players to move around more, but generally this divide allowed me to cover the most essential points. I also try to have all investigators with 5 clues apiece, so if a gate spawns near them, they can move and close, without having to drag an investigator from another area.

On my first play through, I messed around too much fighting monsters, which meant players nearly always ended up on the streets, thus missing vital encounters and the opportunity to win more clues. So more gates spawn, eating up clues, and giving me monster surges, which gives me more monsters and the vicious cycle goes on.

j lhorner,

You've hit the most common, I would assume, strategy. Now, I'm an all-in player, so the look and feel of the beginning of the game will prove a different experience. Here's my Variant:

General Guidance

Mythos 0 - Turn 4 : As you put into play the Mythos card, only place gates in Arkham . Ignore Double-Doom cards and Rumors . If you reveal an expansion board Gate location, resolve everything else... Monster Movement , Clue token , and Headline/Environment . Starting on Turn 5, play each Mythos card, as normal, revealing Gates anywhere on any board. Rationale: In this way, you should, based on the percentages for each Gate opening, have 2-3 Gates open in the first four Turns , instead of 4-5.

Rumors : Reduce the # of tokens, as if you were playing with two Investigators for Rumors such as Nightmare Pool , but for The Key and the Gate , consider 4 Investigators in play. Rationale: Rumors should be difficult to pass, but not impossible, given the great distances Investigators must travel when all boards are in play.

Maximum # of Gates : 10. Rationale : There are 20 Unstable Locations across the four boards. Ten open Gates represents 50% of all of the locations with the potential to spawn a Gate .

Maximum # of Monsters in Arkham and the Outskirts : 5. Rationale : As with Rumors , above, playing as if you had two Investigators would warrant a Maximum # of Monsters in Arkham at 2 + 3= 5 and for simplicity, I've used the same value for the Maximum # of Monsters in the Outskirts .

Expansion Changes

Curse of the Dark Pharaoh : No changes (I currently have incorporated both the original and the new version, so play includes both " Barred from Neighborhood " cards and Patrol Markers ).

Dunwich Horror : No changes

The King in Yellow : No changes

Kingsport Horror : Apply a Rift Marker/Token to the Rift Track only when a new Gate opens on any board, including Gate Bursts . Optional : As the Rifts occur over the town of Kingsport , place the newly opened Rift at the location designated by the last placed Rift Marker/Token on the Rift Track instead of at the Gate location on the Mythos card. Rationale : Performing "Rift Duty" can prove boring for most Investigators . At least having a potential combat in Kingsport should make things interesting. Also, Rifts opening in Kingsport , is the very premise of the expansion...these tears in the fabric are happening over this coastal city.

Black Goat of the Woods : No changes

Innsmouth Horror : Place a Deep Ones Token on the Deep Ones Rising ( DOR ) Track only when a monster enters a vortex. Additionally, once the DOR Track is full, add a Doom Token to the Doom Track instead of automatically awakening the Great Old One . This happens during every Mythos Phase while the DOR Track remains filled. Rationale : Similar to the Rifts in Kingsport , the DOR Track should not be the focus of the Investigator's skills and abilities, but there are times when they may need to travel there and deal with the situation. The DOR Track should not serve as a 2nd Doom Track .

Lurker at the Threshold : You may not use the Power tokens as Clue tokens when the card is exhausted. Thus, if an Investigator takes a Blood Pact , exhausts the card and sacrifices 3 Stamina to receive the 3 Power tokens, place them on the exhausted Blood Pact card. During the next Turn's Upkeep Phase , refresh the Blood Pact card, allowing the Investigator to use the Power tokens. Rationale : Given the currently accepted rule, it's far too easy to exploit the Lurker .

Miskatonic Horror : No change

That's it ~ a few tweaks and I can tell you that it works very well. Again, Arkham Horror isn't about winning, it's a about the story, the theme. As I've said many times before, "it's about the journey, not the destination." If I can maintain a win rate consistent with the average based on 10,000 games on Tibs' spreadsheet, while enjoying the game that much more, great!

If you have any thoughts or comments, please let me know.

Cheers,

Joe

Joe, I'll have to look over your variant. It seems interesting. For one thing, I agree that the penalty for filling up the DOR track is way too steep. With 6P or 8P games, it seems more reasonable to assign one or two people to keep the DOR track clear, but with 3P or 4P, there's no realistic way you can do that. Given the amount of work to be done and the sacrifice that must be made to clear the track, your proposed fix seems a lot more fair. I also agree that the Rift mechanic seemed a bit off. Kingsport stays clear of monsters but requires constant attention to keep rifts from forming that do NOT open in Kingsport? Huh??

Not so sure if I got this right:

Kingsport stays clear of monsters but requires constant attention to keep rifts from forming that do NOT open in Kingsport? Huh??

but sayin' that Kingsport requires constant attention is the most common strategic error doable with Kingsport. Kingsport does not need constant attention; often, it does not need attention at all.

Every rift has two progress tracks; you start being in danger when you have 3 out of 4 tokens on the tracks. And this is the moment when you can consider go there and clear some stuff. But often it's not necessary: an open rift add a doomer 1/6 times on average. If you're close to the victory, better working on that than losing time closing rifts

Anyhoo, Joe's variant is cool, but it really changes gameplay in favour of those who want a better RPG experience in Arkham. As per all houserules, I suggest first to master the game and then decide which houserules to implement: in this way we can shape the game in the best way possible

but sayin' that Kingsport requires constant attention is the most common strategic error doable with Kingsport. Kingsport does not need constant attention; often, it does not need attention at all.

Every rift has two progress tracks; you start being in danger when you have 3 out of 4 tokens on the tracks. And this is the moment when you can consider go there and clear some stuff. But often it's not necessary: an open rift add a doomer 1/6 times on average. If you're close to the victory, better working on that than losing time closing rifts

That's interesting. I haven't played a lot of games in Kingsport so this is good information.

In my last game, I had one of the rift tracks which got a lot of the tokens, so maybe I was just unlucky with the draw. It was late at night when I played, so I didn't break down the probabilities to try to figure out how bad an open rift would be. I wonder why then, that Kingsport introduced a mechanic that can often be ignored for a good portion of the game? When I played Dunwich and Innsmouth, the effects of the vortices were readily apparent, and could not be ignored for too long. Once I got a bunch of monsters from a surge that all ended up being crescent monsters and a couple of unlucky mythos later, they were in the vortex before I could get there to intervene. I nearly lost the game because of that. It basically turned the tide from things being under control to abandoning the gate seal victory and arming up to beat Cthulhu (thanks to taking out the Dunwich Horror with a lucky roll and getting to pick a skill that proved crucial in the final battle).

Based on what you say, it seems like the probabilities suggest that someone may need to visit Kingsport once or twice during the game, but that there is really not much else to do there besides close rifts and pick up an occasional clue that pops up? It seems counterproductive to me to design a city expansion that the investigators want to spend as LITTLE time in as possible.

Clearly, I need to step up my game if I'm going to survive this League.

Jason,

sorry it took me so long to return to this thread. You made some interesting comments, so, I'll try to cover this up here. Apologies in advance for grammar obscurantism and typos, English is not my native language, and I'm sleeping over the keyboard (why can't we have days lasting 12 hours more?)

In Arkham we have 3 movement patterns (with the exception of some cards like Strange Sightings, where every dimensional symbol is triggered for purposes of monster movement):

- Hex + Slash, Triangle, Star

- Crescent Moon + Plus

- Circle + Square and Rhombus

this may appear in two different color patterns (Hexes can appear on white or black, and so on), so you basically have 6 different movement patterns. Hence, each combo is triggered on average 1 every 6 Mythos cards. Considering that you need the dimensional symbol on the open rift to match in color the color on the movement pattern on the Mythos card to trigger doom, you see how the odds are 1/6. Hence, on average, you can stay 12 turns with an open rift and just add two doomers. Honestly, no biggie.

But anyway, let's go deeper and consider one rift. With the two progress tracks, it has the structure of:

LINE 1: A B (dimensional symbol combo - DSC - 1)

LINE 2: C D (dimensional symbol combo - DSC - 2)

in order for the rift to open, you need one progress marker to be placed on A, B, C and D.

Let's consider this: a series of two Mythos cards placing tokens on line 1. You first fill the space A, then the space B. At this point, many start panicking saying the rift is half full and you need to clear it out. But why?

- scenario 1: you remove the marker. Another Mythos triggers DSC 1. The marker is placed again. You remove it again. Keep on doing that until you lose all the remaining sanity

- scenario 2: you don't remove a **** from line 1. Another Mythos triggers DSC 1. The marker cannot be placed. Nothing happens

as you can see, in Scenario 1 you lose time and resources to produce an effect that does not impact in any way the game. In Scenario 2, you are free to do whatever you want during those turns.

When Marker C is placed, then it's time to go up working on the rifts.

Can we ignore Kingsport? Yes. And no. Kingsport is one of the most fascinating boards, imho. Rifts open usually in the last part of the game, when you are low on strength, have most of the investigators trying to put the last seals on the board, possibly a nasty rumor in play you need to control to have it protecting you from being utterly destroyed, and with a lot of stuff going around, risking even a single doomer to be added could mean insta-defeat.

There's a very fine tuning required to understand when it's vital to go to Kingsport to start working on the rifts and when you can still ignore them; in the first part of the game, you have a free investigator to go around actually helping a lot the other investigators, while in the second part of the game, when the threat is real (and there are cards accelerating rifts activities, especially when you have Miskatonic horror mixed in), there's a chance you need a perfect clockwork teamwork to avoid Kingsport-originated disasters and control all the rest.

Plus, Kingsport can be invaded by monsters, and there's quite a lot of interesting stuff going on there (the only place where you can sell items, for instance; not to mention the White Ship).

Really, I think Kingsport is probably the most brilliant design had for Arkham; an expansion completely different from the others, that could be seen as useless, but actually it has a *huge* impact on each and every of the games I played

Julia, you need not apologize for leaving a question unanswered for a few hours. I would be a horrible person if I couldn't be that patient, and then some. And there's no need to apologize for small mistakes in grammar. My foreign language proficiency involves a little German and some Japanese, and I would be overjoyed if I could approach the level of fluency in either that you have in English. I am always amazed when non-English speakers apologize for their grammar, when the average American makes grammar mistakes all the time.

So I spoke too soon, huh? I think I need to think things through more before I open my mouth and jump to conclusions.

I see now. Dunwich and Innsmouth tend to influence the doom track more consistently throughout the game with the vortices and DOR track, but the rift tracks in Kingsport have a more subtle effect and the danger grows slowly over time. Once the rift is opened though, it does not resolve itself automatically like the vortices do. Interestingly, the pace of the base game slows down over time as sealed gates and monster surges prevent more doom tokens from being added, and the gate openings are the primary driver of the doom track. Rifts work the opposite way.

All the expansion boards have ways to counteract this slowing down of the pace in the base game and progress the game towards the loss condition. And each board does this slightly differently.

Julia, you need not apologize for leaving a question unanswered for a few hours. I would be a horrible person if I couldn't be that patient, and then some. And there's no need to apologize for small mistakes in grammar. My foreign language proficiency involves a little German and some Japanese, and I would be overjoyed if I could approach the level of fluency in either that you have in English. I am always amazed when non-English speakers apologize for their grammar, when the average American makes grammar mistakes all the time.

LOL. True, no need for apologize. Point is that almost no-one of the "old ones" is still active in the forum (but Tibs, who passes sporadically by and tries to help as he can); once this board was filled of people with a really great knowledge of the game that were always watching over the board, helping. Nowadays, the only remaining here are me and Joe. Leaving an interesting debate open, or a plea for help with rules and stuff unanswered for too much time really bugs me (I tend to forget that being all grown-ups, we technically have all a life, lol).

Anyhoo, case closed, I won't be apologizing with you ever again

I see now. Dunwich and Innsmouth tend to influence the doom track more consistently throughout the game with the vortices and DOR track, but the rift tracks in Kingsport have a more subtle effect and the danger grows slowly over time. Once the rift is opened though, it does not resolve itself automatically like the vortices do. Interestingly, the pace of the base game slows down over time as sealed gates and monster surges prevent more doom tokens from being added, and the gate openings are the primary driver of the doom track. Rifts work the opposite way.

This. Dunwich and Innsmouth have similar mechanisms behind, vortices making bad stuff happen during the game. Dunwich is the less scary: you could actually want the Dunwich Horror to wake up, it's just a hypertough Mi-Go giving you an automatic Elder Sign when defeated. It's a little bit risky, but if you stockpile items and clues on one investigator, it could be worth the investment.

Innsmouth is crazy difficult, but because of how the board is designed: unaccessible spaces, martial law, incredibly horrible Mythos (Close-mouthed anyone? Unpleasant Surprise at the wrong moment?), but the idea is the same: a track that is progressively filled during the game, and that you can clear under certain conditions. Still, you can control it: avoid sealing high-freq gates very early in the game (also because they tend to burst more often), be ready to send someone to Devil Reef when needed, coordinate the closing / sealing of the final gates. Unless you have a DOR accelerator in play (Dagon + Hydra for instance), you often win.

Kingsport works differently. There are three tracks working together and you can be forced to face all of them filling up at the same time. There's the need for you to have investigators going there and have a series of encounters when it could be too late (monsters roaming the streets and so on). The entity of danger varies from game to game and it's dependant on the frequency of the movement patterns of monsters, regardless of the Mythos deck composition (if you play all-in without Miskatonic, you can have Dunwich being the boring wastes for the amount of actions you see there), so, it's a real actual threat and it's entirely up to you to find the proper balance in when to do something without losing time / energies / forces.

I think it just requires time and patience to be seen; other boards may be more fascinating because they apparently are more difficult