I just wanted to put out how I was expecting torpedoes to work which is a little different than they do.

This is how they are now

-------------

4 attack dice

range 2-3

ATTACK [ TARGET LOCK]

Spend your target lock and discard this card to perform this attack

You may change 1 of your EYE to CRIT result

4 points.

-------------

I expected something like this:

-------------

2 attack dice

range 2-3

ATTACK

Discard this card to perform this attack

If the attack hits, cancel all the attack dice results and inflict:

HIT HIT HIT CRIT

4 points.

-------------

Would people consider them more if they were like this? Do you think it's too strong? Still bad because it's one time use?

I have to say that I agree, more or less. Thematically, it should be very difficult to hit something maneuverable like a TIE fighter, but if you do...<POP!> Something large and slow like the falcon ought to be relatively easy to hit, but capable of surviving a blast or two.

Your suggestion fits both scenarios very well

If torps worked like that then you should keep the extra agility dice at range 3 for the defender. Makes sense that a target farther away is harder to hit with a torpedo.

I like the idea of this- of doing a set amount of damage on hit. I'm not sure I like how few dice you're tossing, though.

What you've written is a low odds, high return weapon. It can obliterate a Tie Fighter, Tie Interceptor, Tie Phantom, A-Wing, and Z-95. With the wrong crit, it can also 1-shot an X-Wing, E-Wing, or Tie Advanced.

Weirdly, I'd like to both up the odds, and also up the price. I think we could make a strong case for this sane card at 3 attack dice, but costing 6 points. Two of those in a list would cost as much as a Z-95. They'd have a good chance at hitting a Falcon, and doing a bunch of damage to it.

Fel would be in danger, but between his evade token, autothrusters (at range 3), and pure arc dodging, he should be ok.

I approve.

What you've written is a low odds, high return weapon. It can obliterate a Tie Fighter, Tie Interceptor, Tie Phantom, A-Wing, and Z-95. With the wrong crit, it can also 1-shot an X-Wing, E-Wing, or Tie Advanced.

But the point is that you shouldn't be shooting weapons like this at those ships. It SHOULD have a really low chance of actually hitting a nimble arc-dodger. You bring a weapon like this to deal with the big, cumbersome ships that TIE fighters take forever to whittle down. If you up it to 3 dice, with all the potential modifications that can be had, you make it much, much more likely that it will 1-shot a TIE, which is not something you want. The goal is to make ordnance like this the weapon of choice vs big ships while regular laser cannons are preferred against interceptors.

People would take expert handling and countermeasures (maybe).

Too powerful. 4 Damage is too much, even with needing to get a hit with only 2 dice. Especially complemented with Munitions Failsafe.

Konradkurze makes a goodpoint about Munitions Failsafe. If it weren't for Munitions Failsafe I think this would be a great idea. Maybe needing some fine tuning regarding cost and damage, but essentially a very thematic idea that really calls back to both the old computer games and the X-Wing books. But FFG attempted to improve ordinance with Munitions Failsafe and that changes the risk of using your proton torpedoes from wasting X points from your squad to just whiffing on an attack opportunity, possibly a range 3 attack. Too powerful.

What about only suffering 3 damage on a successful hit, it would still destroy a fragile target and do sufficient damage to a larger target, or maybe the damage is modified to 2 hits and a crit for large base targets, you could even make it that huge base ships suffer 3 hits and a crit.

I have always thought something along the lines of munitions always doing a guaranteed damage and only adding extra damage for every uncanceled hit/crit after the initial 1 damage. Thematically you could say it was splash damage from the torp exploding in close proximity... But that would be worth the 4 points to ensure a guaranteed hit.

this may not suit the newer munitions however. Maybe they would be exempt or their other effects like ion, stress and splash damage don't trigger unless you get damage though that hasn't been cancelled by evade die or token.

Sure. 4 point version? 4x Tie Bomber, 2 torps each. No target lock req? DO NOT JOUST WITH ME!

6 pt ver? 3 Bombers, 2 torps each, and add a Tie Fighter. Still would not want to face this list.

I'm trying to remember what ordnance types there were that we haven't seen yet.

Certainly, I like the 'hard to hit with, massive damage' idea - just adding dice doesn't really work as it means it still punishes evasive ships.

Suggestion:

Range: 2-3

Attack Dice: 2

Attack [Target Lock]: Spend your Target Lock to make this attack. If the attack hits, the defender suffers three additional damage. This attack is considered a primary weapon attack.

'Being a primary weapon' means that an enemy gets a bonus evade at range 3, and that munitions failsafe won't work. Of course, it means that a gunner could potentially fire it as a 'second shot', but I can't think of any reason why that'd be a problem

dig the idea, I wish ffg would have done something like this to begin with. I also think 4 hits is a bit too much, but hit hit crit might be a good place for it at 4 points.

Personally I've always thought that munitions failsafe was a bit odd. Thematically, what exactly is happening?

You fire your missile, but your aim is a little off, so munitions failsafe is like, "Woah, you're way off there kid. Hey! Missile! Yeah, you! Don't explode yet. Turn around, come back here, and reload yourself in the missile tube, and we'll give it another try."

Or does it preempt your shot completely?

Munitions failsafe: "Hang on a second, you're trying to shoot a missile at Soontir Fel when he's equipped with a Stealth Device and is actively focused on evading your shot? Nah, I don't like our chances. Let's override your firing button and wait for a better shot."

:S

dig the idea, I wish ffg would have done something like this to begin with. I also think 4 hits is a bit too much, but hit hit crit might be a good place for it at 4 points.

3 hits would be about right for a Proton Torp... Kills a Tie in one shot if it hits, but doesn't annihilate an X-wing with shields.

I guess you can have all torpedos roll two attack dice and missiles roll 3. The missiles have a better chance to hit, but would do less damage.

Concussion Missile: 3 attack - Spend your target lock to and discard this card to perform this attack. You may change one blank result to a hit result. If this attack hits, cancel all dice. The defender suffers one hit and one critical hit.

If you wanted to go for a set amount of damage (if it hits), may I propose something of the sort:

If this attack hits, the defender is hit with 6 <booms> less his agility value.

So basically the same thing as Proton Rockets, but in reverse. You could even cap it at his agility value.

With that change to the ruling, a YT-1300 still takes 5 damage, which is a huge amount of it's health. A TIE fighter still gets 1 shot, and an X wing is left limping home. 5 <booms> less agility might be the better way to go in general, but I like the idea of a TIE taking 3 damage from it, though that might be too powerful.

Personally I've always thought that munitions failsafe was a bit odd. Thematically, what exactly is happening?

You fire your missile, but your aim is a little off, so munitions failsafe is like, "Woah, you're way off there kid. Hey! Missile! Yeah, you! Don't explode yet. Turn around, come back here, and reload yourself in the missile tube, and we'll give it another try."

Or does it preempt your shot completely?

Munitions failsafe: "Hang on a second, you're trying to shoot a missile at Soontir Fel when he's equipped with a Stealth Device and is actively focused on evading your shot? Nah, I don't like our chances. Let's override your firing button and wait for a better shot."

:S

Streak launchers from BattleTech. They inhibit firing unless there's a sufficiently solid firing solution as virtually to guarantee a hit.

You know another thing I would love to see in this game instead of the Homing Missile card is something like this:

Declare your target of your homing missile and fire it.

Use the 2 straight or 2 bank template to place a missile token on the map in front of your ship.

At the end of the activation phase each turn, move the missile token using any maneuver template 3 or higher. No k-turns.

If the missile token or its maneuver template ever overlaps the target ship, or if the target ship or its maneuver template ever overlaps the missile token, the missile detonates and does X amount of damage to the target.

Edit: after x turns, if the missile hasn't hit its target it explodes harmlessly.

I have been saying the same thing for the last couple of months. Decouple accuracy from damage, and have ordnance do a set amount of damage.

I think I would revise my idea from

[HIT] [HIT] [HIT] [CRIT]

to

[CRIT] [CRIT] [CRIT].

I like that it would be optimal to bring the targets shields down first. And that the damage has some variability in that you could pull direct hits.

Also, I could see it being 1 attack dice. Spending a LOCK adds a dice instead of re-rolls?

Tossing out this idea. Only one damage against shields, but 4 hits against hull. Now you gamble holding it till end game but getting killed yourself or using it earlier with less effect?

Tossing out this idea. Only one damage against shields, but 4 hits against hull. Now you gamble holding it till end game but getting killed yourself or using it earlier with less effect?

The only gamble in that version is whether to bring it or not. You'll never use it to take down 1 shield when your regular attack could do the same thing... If not more.

Tossing out this idea. Only one damage against shields, but 4 hits against hull. Now you gamble holding it till end game but getting killed yourself or using it earlier with less effect?

issue with this is that almost all rebel ships can carry torps and have shields. tie interceptors, fighters and bombers, all have no shields, so it is fairly easy to give to rebel ships and will tend to me much better on them then on imperial ships which will face only shielded ships. also it is not clear to me why it would do so much less against shields.

the main issue I have with those who say 4 is too much and to make it 3 hits is that again it kills tie interceptor and fighter in 1 hit but kills no rebel ships.

I kind of like the originial idea except that its really easy for imperial ships to dodge (especially with an evade token) although this does make some sense. the other issue is munitions failsafe making it so you have as many chances as you need, which I suppose would make people more likely to take them.

edit: it has occured to me you could limit the number of uses for munitions failsafe to something like

"put 3 counters on munitions fail-safe. when a secondary weapon that requires you to discard it misses, discard one counter instead. discard munitions fail-safe if there are no counters left" or maybe 3*x where x is the number of one use weapons you have equipped.

in any case a similar thing with missiles would probably also be necessary if this was done with torpedoes.