Why would you put a Mangler on non-Imperial Kath? It's an option, certainly, but she's already throwing 3 dice out the front and 4 out the rear.

Turn a hit to crit

Never underestimate the edge denying the range three bonus can give you.

I'm 31-4 on vassal currently with this dual scum firespray list:

Boba + HLC + Predator + Tactician + Feedback Array

Kath + Mangler + Predator + Tactician

Tacticians and feedback array work great against phantoms and ptl ships like interceptors and a-wings.

I also want to add a point to an idea that many people seem to think...keeping boba at range 1. Yes he does get rerolls, but I've found you're far more likely to reroll to nothing than get more evades. I basically treat his ability as an insurance policy for when I'm at range 1, but like all other ships, it's usually not a good place to stay, especially if you have lots of ships shooting at you.

I'm 31-4 on vassal currently with this dual scum firespray list:

Boba + HLC + Predator + Tactician + Feedback Array

Kath + Mangler + Predator + Tactician

Tacticians and feedback array work great against phantoms and ptl ships like interceptors and a-wings.

I also want to add a point to an idea that many people seem to think...keeping boba at range 1. Yes he does get rerolls, but I've found you're far more likely to reroll to nothing than get more evades. I basically treat his ability as an insurance policy for when I'm at range 1, but like all other ships, it's usually not a good place to stay, especially if you have lots of ships shooting at you.

This list is nearly possible as is currently with Imperials if you're not making a lot use of Boba's scum ability, and Mangler arguably works better on Imperial Kath (especially since you want to be firing backward with her Scum version). So, my question is have you tried those builds on Imperial version and do you think that you'd have the same success or do the minor differences in abilities make the difference?

Scum kath is sooooo much better than imperial kath. One extra attack dice on the rear arc is HUGE. Plus imperials can't take feedback array, and it has definitely won me several games alone.

Scum kath is sooooo much better than imperial kath. One extra attack dice on the rear arc is HUGE. Plus imperials can't take feedback array, and it has definitely won me several games alone.

Wouldn't say "so much better" as "much more easily appreciable"

Imperial Kath seemed rather slapshod given that the environment did not really support her abilities outside of the expensive and squishy marksmanship + gunner build

Given the mangler and calculator, though, she may well start coming into her own. Stress and, to a lesser extent, crits are going to become very important with the stream of potent action-orientated ships coming in off the boat.

I'm 31-4 on vassal currently with this dual scum firespray list:

Boba + HLC + Predator + Tactician + Feedback Array

Kath + Mangler + Predator + Tactician

Tacticians and feedback array work great against phantoms and ptl ships like interceptors and a-wings.

I also want to add a point to an idea that many people seem to think...keeping boba at range 1. Yes he does get rerolls, but I've found you're far more likely to reroll to nothing than get more evades. I basically treat his ability as an insurance policy for when I'm at range 1, but like all other ships, it's usually not a good place to stay, especially if you have lots of ships shooting at you.

What was your reasoning with the currently HLC and Mangler set up there?

How much use is Predator? And is simply Feedback Array good enough to make it a game vs Phantoms? Am I simply too scared of them? Thats one reason why I used VI.

How useful is Tactician? How much does it go off?

Also, do you feel like Scum Boba is 3 points undercosted? (Rumors is its really 42). Personally, if you reroll blanks as much as you say, I would feel like 39 is still more correct.

Also: Recon Spec on Boba. Do you reroll or roll focuses a lot? Is it worth it? Does it add more than 1 damage of mitigation (comparing to hull).

So most of what every one is talking about is what wave 6 will bring to Rebels and the Empire, and their meta archetypes. What you all think S&V it self bring to the meta? Other than obvious things like Mux, what do you think will challenge/counter the current top lists?

I already talked about this a bit, but sure.

• People will experiment with all of the HWKs, but Torkil Mux and Palob Godalhi will stick around. Both have powerful effects, and even if they can be outmaneuvered they'll function as effective and relatively inexpensive area denial.

While all of the points are good, I wanted to touch on this one in particular as I just got home from game night, and triple Scum HWK was one of the builds that someone was messing around with (after trying triple Rebel). I think they have legit game when paired together and, even Dace has an effect that works out well against things like the Decimator that you're guaranteed getting hits in on (agreed that Torkil and Palob will be the long term winners though).

I think starvipers will show up at first because people want to see what they can do, but will then disappear entirely from the competitive scene. With Virago, they're more similar to E-wings than anything else but the only competitive E-wing has higher PS and a better pilot ability than the vipers. FFG really dropped the ball here.

HWKs I think will be the most meta altering ship. Torkil Mux will punish those who invest in a PS bid, and will especially hurt phantoms with the timing of ACD. Palob with blaster turret and opportunist can toss out considerable damage with his target's inability to alter dice. His ability directly counter's Whisper's and the Millennium Falcon title, two of the most frequently used competitive cards.

Y-wings will have a wealth of options, but I don't know if they'll necessarily alter the meta by themselves. They'll be more worthwhile, certainly, which is meta changing but they don't offer any direct counters to any of the current pillars as far as I can tell. 5 with autoblasters could be a real bear to deal with of you let your ships get caught in overlapping fields of fire.

Z-95s will still be solid, but probably less so than rebel Zs. Lower PS means they'll be shooting after rebel generic ships but still pay the same. They have the illicit slot, but must pay more to utilize it. I think the PS 3 version will be more common than the PS 1. N'Dru seems to be very cost-efficient if you can keep him separated and can deal up to 8 damage in a turn if you give him cluster missiles. Decimators and even falcons will be terrified of this guy, which is hilarious.

I'm not sure how Scyks will do. I don't like their dial or cost relative to a TIE fighter, but TIEs spoiled us from the very beginning. I don't think they'll make it as a filler ship, but I could see a Serisswarm being a thing. Serissu and 4 cartel spacers with mangler cannons could be scary. Focused firing could bring decimators and falcons low really quickly while not dying as fast as those ships would hope. Probably an all-or-nothing prospect.

Firesprays have good choices all around except for Azzameen. He gains +1 PS and a situational ability that you have to pay more points for, but loses the EPT of the generics and costs a point more? He would've been interesting if he costed the same as the mandomercs, but alas. I think Boba+VI offers the PS to deal with phantoms and the ability to deal with swarms. He'll finally be the stud he always should've been.

Aggressors are the wildcard for me. Not quite sure where they'll end up. They've got the customizability and maneuverability to be a lot of fun to play with, but their middling PS might make them very matchup dependent.

Oh my goodness. Yes. Cluster missiles.

I was doing the 7 dice prockets. Also not bad.

4 + stealth + pilot ability + opportunist. Room for a 5 dice hot shot blaster too.

I think starvipers will show up at first because people want to see what they can do, but will then disappear entirely from the competitive scene. With Virago, they're more similar to E-wings than anything else but the only competitive E-wing has higher PS and a better pilot ability than the vipers. FFG really dropped the ball here.

Guri ability is really nice, but she's hurt by her low PS. As for Xizor, I have a harder time with his ability: his ability ask you to pair him with some low cost ship like Z-95 or Y-Wing but his dial ask you to fly on your own and exploit your dial to the fullest to pull some tricks. So, I fell like Xizor will be like Brath, a pilot that you take mostly because of his PS because his ability won't be useful every game. Unless you decide to fly in formation, but I'm not sure the StarViper is really meant for formation flying. I'll definetely have to fly it a couple of games because I really want to love that ship, but I'm not impress by Xizor ability. Is it confirmed that the PS3 pilot doesn't have access to an EPT?

I think starvipers will show up at first because people want to see what they can do, but will then disappear entirely from the competitive scene. With Virago, they're more similar to E-wings than anything else but the only competitive E-wing has higher PS and a better pilot ability than the vipers. FFG really dropped the ball here.

Guri ability is really nice, but she's hurt by her low PS. As for Xizor, I have a harder time with his ability: his ability ask you to pair him with some low cost ship like Z-95 or Y-Wing but his dial ask you to fly on your own and exploit your dial to the fullest to pull some tricks. So, I fell like Xizor will be like Brath, a pilot that you take mostly because of his PS because his ability won't be useful every game. Unless you decide to fly in formation, but I'm not sure the StarViper is really meant for formation flying. I'll definetely have to fly it a couple of games because I really want to love that ship, but I'm not impress by Xizor ability. Is it confirmed that the PS3 pilot doesn't have access to an EPT?

I disagree about the Starviper not being a formation flyer. Its 1 banks and 1-3 forwards are green. This is a formation flier if ever I saw one. Xizor is built to be the ship you can safely load up because he'll shed the damage. Pair him with some Y-wings and he will be a force!

I think starvipers will show up at first because people want to see what they can do, but will then disappear entirely from the competitive scene. With Virago, they're more similar to E-wings than anything else but the only competitive E-wing has higher PS and a better pilot ability than the vipers. FFG really dropped the ball here.

Guri ability is really nice, but she's hurt by her low PS. As for Xizor, I have a harder time with his ability: his ability ask you to pair him with some low cost ship like Z-95 or Y-Wing but his dial ask you to fly on your own and exploit your dial to the fullest to pull some tricks. So, I fell like Xizor will be like Brath, a pilot that you take mostly because of his PS because his ability won't be useful every game. Unless you decide to fly in formation, but I'm not sure the StarViper is really meant for formation flying. I'll definetely have to fly it a couple of games because I really want to love that ship, but I'm not impress by Xizor ability. Is it confirmed that the PS3 pilot doesn't have access to an EPT?

I disagree about the Starviper not being a formation flyer. Its 1 banks and 1-3 forwards are green. This is a formation flier if ever I saw one. Xizor is built to be the ship you can safely load up because he'll shed the damage. Pair him with some Y-wings and he will be a force!

But then what's the point of the S-loops, boosts, and barrel rolls? He can fly in formation, but being an untethered arc-dodgers would be better.

StarVipers are pretty neat, I don't know if they will find wide acceptance as other people have already pointed out, there isn't really a stand out pilot. They fly like the bastard offspring of Interceptors and B-Wings, which isn't to say a bad thing, it just might take a little getting use to. It also has the one move I always wanted on an interceptor, a 1 bank. Frankly, the PS3 pilot should have had an EPT slot, I think that might have made the SV a lot more exciting.

In the games I have proxied so far it hits like a truck and it is REALLY easy to stay in range 1. The Virago upgrade paired with Adv Sensors is a lot of fun but the points you throw down you better be ready to dance. However, with AdvSens you can basically pivot in one spot making it incredibly hard to out maneuver. I really wish the pilots all had slightly better pilot skills but I could see how that might be overpowered.

I think starvipers will show up at first because people want to see what they can do, but will then disappear entirely from the competitive scene. With Virago, they're more similar to E-wings than anything else but the only competitive E-wing has higher PS and a better pilot ability than the vipers. FFG really dropped the ball here.

Guri ability is really nice, but she's hurt by her low PS. As for Xizor, I have a harder time with his ability: his ability ask you to pair him with some low cost ship like Z-95 or Y-Wing but his dial ask you to fly on your own and exploit your dial to the fullest to pull some tricks. So, I fell like Xizor will be like Brath, a pilot that you take mostly because of his PS because his ability won't be useful every game. Unless you decide to fly in formation, but I'm not sure the StarViper is really meant for formation flying. I'll definetely have to fly it a couple of games because I really want to love that ship, but I'm not impress by Xizor ability. Is it confirmed that the PS3 pilot doesn't have access to an EPT?

I disagree about the Starviper not being a formation flyer. Its 1 banks and 1-3 forwards are green. This is a formation flier if ever I saw one. Xizor is built to be the ship you can safely load up because he'll shed the damage. Pair him with some Y-wings and he will be a force!

Any ship can be a formation flyer, of course.

But with all the maneuver options the Star Viper has (hard 1, S-Loop, Barrel Roll, Boost, possibility to equip Advanced Sensor), I think it was meant as a sneaky flanker/knife fighter more than a ship that you'll limit to follow ships with a more generic dial. Just with the S-Loop, you'll break formation as soon as you do a k-turn.

So yeah, you could pair Xizor with a couple Zs and Y-Wings, but you will pay for a dial and action bar that you won't use to his full potential. I would have prefered to see him with an ability that would help him be a better flanker/close fighter than one that limit his potential.

The fact that the StarViper can take Autothrusters is a big plus, while the lack of an EPT or ability to use the Virago title will keep the generics off the tables. You'll maybe see one named pilot backed by a mini-swarm, which is the way it probably should be anyway. On the other hand, they get to take the very juicy Advanced Sensors/PTL combo with native boost and barrel roll.

The more I see of Scum, the more I think that multiple Most Wanteds is going to be the key for that faction. One "ace" backed by a loose formation Z95s or Warthogs seems to be their ideal setup.

I think it's going to change up the meta for a while simply because there will be a glut of new ships, but I don't see the Phantom going away anytime soon. Mux is anti-Phantom, but so is Roark. Anything that counters the Phantom and is meh at everything else doesn't actually counter the Phantom because no one will play it consistently enough in tournament settings. See: Roark.

Agressors are PS 6. Can't win PS bid against a Phantom.

M3-A Interceptor 'swarms' will suffer the same fate that TIE Swarms or low PS TIE Interceptor 'swarms' like 5x Avenger Squadron do against Phantoms. They still won't get any shots and the Phantom will kill one every time it fires.

Scum Z-95's are still Z-95's. Crap against Phantoms.

Since everything will be crap against the Phantom still, no one will play swarms and fat turrets will still be a thing. Everyone will be excited for scum and buy a ton of ships for it and fly scum swarm and star vipers and all this neat wizbang stuff, then after a while they won't be played any more except for 1-2 scum builds that can compete with phantoms and fat turrets. Same thing that has already happened with all the rebel and imperial ships.

*58th post about the evil Phantom being too much to handle for me*

Shhhhh..... let it go..... just tell your friends nicely that you're not good enough to beat them when they take a Phantom and ask them politely to take something else when playing against you until you get better. Your problem is solve and we all get to read something else from you than the Phantom being too good for you to handle.

Regarding the StarViper and formation flying, couldn't you just give Xizor a wingman or 2 of other StarVipers? They all share the same dial and maneuverability, so the others should be able to keep up with Xizor.

Since everything will be crap against the Phantom still, no one will play swarms and fat turrets will still be a thing.

In case anyone else is wondering, you can add posters to your ignore list using the following steps:

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Regarding the StarViper and formation flying, couldn't you just give Xizor a wingman or 2 of other StarVipers? They all share the same dial and maneuverability, so the others should be able to keep up with Xizor.

The other thing people are ignoring is that Xizor's ability makes him very likely to be your endgame piece. So even if he starts out flying in formation, there will come a break point where the leash comes off and he starts pulling crazy maneuvers.

I still can't say if he'll be really effective, but his options aren't as binary as "fly in formation the whole game" and "don't ever fly in formation".

*58th post about the evil Phantom being too much to handle for me*

Shhhhh..... let it go..... just tell your friends nicely that you're not good enough to beat them when they take a Phantom and ask them politely to take something else when playing against you until you get better. Your problem is solve and we all get to read something else from you than the Phantom being too good for you to handle.

It gets a free forward 2 or 2 barrel roll, then a movement, then an action, then a 4 dice attack, then a second gunner shot with a free target lock. If When it hits it then gets a free defensive focus and it goes back up to 4 agility. There is nothing I can do if I don't have a turret or super high PS.

Everyone in my area plays nothing but turret ships. This is purely because of the obnoxious phantom shenanigans.

Regarding the StarViper and formation flying, couldn't you just give Xizor a wingman or 2 of other StarVipers? They all share the same dial and maneuverability, so the others should be able to keep up with Xizor.

Flying flankers in formation kinda go against the idea of flanking.

I think the way I would try to fly Xizor is going with a lot of other ship but fly in a chaotic way so that wherever I decide to go with Xizor, there will always be a Y-Wing or Z there to take the hit. No formation at all, just pure chaos.

Since everything will be crap against the Phantom still, no one will play swarms and fat turrets will still be a thing.

In case anyone else is wondering, you can add posters to your ignore list using the following steps:

1. Click on your profile picture anywhere on the site.
2. Click the blue "Edit my Profile" button.
3. Choose "'Ignore' Preferences" from the list of tabs on the left.
4. Type (or paste) the user name you'd like to block into the box labeled "Add a new user to my list", click the checkbox labeled "Posts", then click "Save Changes".

Thanks for the tips!

I just tried it and it actually works!