I am TOTALLY fine with that. Challenge accepted.

So am I!

It will be fun seeing those players not that good with Interceptors thinking Fel is an autowin only to see him get blown out because they got blocked, or Vadered, or double-stressed, or ionized while stressed, etc...

The only way you see this exact build is the ywing without title. Which is even worse for interceptors since autoblaster turrets hits ignore evade die. Which means you are now actively trying to avoid range 1 on a ywing turret. The entire front arc of ps6 Blount which doesn't care about autothrusters range 3, stealth device or asteroid blocking shots and the entire front arc of the falcon while still being hit by its ps11 gunner turret regardless. Thats nearly impossible for you to avoid all 3 of those arc ranges without taking damage if your opponent even has a mild sense of board control. Yes a target lock is required to fire however it's not discarded nor requires any Los to acquire.

Fat Han will fold once focus fire damage is able to burn him down in 2-3 turns. 4x adv w adv targeting will put out 12-15 hits a turn on a durable platform that the falcon can't kill each turn. The 4x adavanced list biggest issues will be highly mobile ships. Who are able to completely avoid thier damage.

Except you still need to acquire the target-lock, meaning there will be at least a turn-wide gap in blount's ability to fire it off because he has to take his action before Soontir moves.

As for all 3 of those arcs, Soontir only has to avoid Blount's. Han forcing himself to arc and avoid auto-thrustuers severely cuts down on his maneuverability (The turret's greatest advantage: it gives no **** as to its facing) and the Y-wing is incredibly insignificant (Tie Fighter/Z-95 status) unless it is at range 1.

Imo, any dedicated check against soontir or other mobile ships are better off if they're more sustained or reliable. A pair of tactician B-wings or R3-A2 X/Y/Es is one way to do it, as are more expensive but reliable pilots such as deadeye flechette Nera or V.I + R3-A2 + Engine Wes (who brings the added advantage of significantly cutting down on his defensive tokens, potentially removing some through his attack and then guaranteed to remove one through his ability). Blount himself has a place, but it is not running alongside a small squadron with very few dedicated blockers.

That or just drown the bugger in firepower. He's got green dice for days, but he's still squishier than a phantom. The first crit that punches through could well cripple him for the rest of the match.

MEh, there's nothing evolved about that Fat Han. I've seen that exact same build at least fifty times over the course of this wave...

Don't mind Gungo; he has a weird thing about Fat Han lists.

Fel will NEVER reach the level of Whisper. For one, he is much more skill-demanding...

You're mostly right in this post, but "skill-demanding" makes me twitch. Evading firing arcs with Fel is only slightly more difficult as evading firing arcs with PS9 Whisper, which is to say that as long as you move last and stay out of traffic it's not difficult at all.

I have yet see anything that will really curb Fat Hans thus far. A few nickel and dime effects, but I don't quite see them all coming together in an accessible fashion. Falcons are likely not the leaving the competitive scene any time soon except by players choosing to run something else.

Which is okay with me, honestly, since the problem isn't that Falcons (or Large turrets in general) are unbalanced, but that they're an obvious and reliable counter to Phantoms. Introducing another counter in Autothrusters definitely is going to step on them a little bit, but the threat of Phantoms as well as the inherent tankiness of a Falcon build will keep them involved in the metagame.

Fel will NEVER reach the level of Whisper. For one, he is much more skill-demanding...

You're mostly right in this post, but "skill-demanding" makes me twitch. Evading firing arcs with Fel is only slightly more difficult as evading firing arcs with PS9 Whisper, which is to say that as long as you move last and stay out of traffic it's not difficult at all.

I don't know about "only slightly more difficult"

Getting Fell out of arcs is nothing like David felling Goliath on its own, but compared to Whisper its as impressive as killing 3 goliaths with the same stone...and the stone is actually a pickled anchovie

VI Corran will be used (even more) to hunt down Fel.

VI Corran owns Fel in all aspects (PS10,can reg shields, has more HP, can get past tokens with FCS+Doubletap).

But ofcourse that makes him 10+ points more expensive so Fel has more room to fill out his list.

getting into range 1 is risky but something i could try if there was a chance of killing it before it shoot back

Correct. Flew PtL Jax against a "Panic Attack" list and never gave my opponent a Range 2 shot for his Tacticians, even if it meant using my second action for positioning and ending up with a stress anyway. Being Jax, Range 1 was important to deny Focus anyway, but I imagine boosting/barrel-rolling Fel into Range 1 and using PtL for a Evade and free Focus token would be just as good.

Fel will NEVER reach the level of Whisper. For one, he is much more skill-demanding...

You're mostly right in this post, but "skill-demanding" makes me twitch. Evading firing arcs with Fel is only slightly more difficult as evading firing arcs with PS9 Whisper, which is to say that as long as you move last and stay out of traffic it's not difficult at all.

I have yet see anything that will really curb Fat Hans thus far. A few nickel and dime effects, but I don't quite see them all coming together in an accessible fashion. Falcons are likely not the leaving the competitive scene any time soon except by players choosing to run something else.

Which is okay with me, honestly, since the problem isn't that Falcons (or Large turrets in general) are unbalanced, but that they're an obvious and reliable counter to Phantoms. Introducing another counter in Autothrusters definitely is going to step on them a little bit, but the threat of Phantoms as well as the inherent tankiness of a Falcon build will keep them involved in the metagame.

I did not mean to suggest Phantoms (Whisper) are entirely skill-less. To the contrary, they require an above average skill set to do well as they can be punished with one critical mistake or against a list with some tools to fight it. But ACD, 4 attack dice, and the Cloak mechanic are significant edges over anything the Interceptor currently has. The Decloak move alone is MASSIVE for horizontal displacement (even more so with Echo than Whisper) and ACD/4 attack makes it way more forgiving than "Balls of Steel" Fel. Skill-less? No. More forgiving? Absolutely.

And I don't want turret ships to disappear and they need to be viable, so they should never be cut down so far that they become unattractive again. The turret itself is less the issue than the near indestructability of the **** things. Fat Hans don't win by shooting you down with firepower, but by dragging the game on so long that it's a death by paper cuts until a scenario exists that you can no longer damage it, while sacrificing little offensive capability to do this. I just want closer balance, which may also involve the Phantom since they seem somewhat joined at the hip. Anyway, that's for FFG to decide. This has been debated so much to death that I'm annoyed even having to think about it anymore.

R3-A2 and Tactician are the ones to look out for unless Nera picks up in popularity (with darth and soontir hitting the table, she may well especially because Aggressors are in the 4 hull range without a hull upgrade...which takes up an auto-thruster slot)

Both are criminally under-utilized because of the Phantom Ps Game (doesn't stop V.I Wes, though ), but since Vader and Soontir have no ACD mechanics, I expect them to return and in greater numbers.

Nera/Flechette/Accuracy Corrector/Failsafe is something that I'm curious to try. It's 32 points, but you can actually use the AC to guarentee that Nera's torpedo will miss.

For 33 points, you can add Deadeye to negate the need for a TL.

The downside to this build is the fact that you've spent 33 points on a ship that is intentially trying to deal zero damage.

R3-A2 and Tactician are the ones to look out for unless Nera picks up in popularity (with darth and soontir hitting the table, she may well especially because Aggressors are in the 4 hull range without a hull upgrade...which takes up an auto-thruster slot)

Both are criminally under-utilized because of the Phantom Ps Game (doesn't stop V.I Wes, though ), but since Vader and Soontir have no ACD mechanics, I expect them to return and in greater numbers.

Nera/Flechette/Accuracy Corrector/Failsafe is something that I'm curious to try. It's 32 points, but you can actually use the AC to guarentee that Nera's torpedo will miss.

For 33 points, you can add Deadeye to negate the need for a TL.

The downside to this build is the fact that you've spent 33 points on a ship that is intentially trying to deal zero damage.

Imo, I'd just ditch AC for a 2nd torp and let the unmodified dice do their job. You're stressing the enemy either way, and I wouldn't fret the loss of a torpedo if it meant pinging Fell and friends for a point of damage or two (which you can bet the opponent would spend tokens to avoid)

If you want to be crazy and somehow get her to preform a target-lock on top of focus, she might even double as a half-way decent "turret"

So most of what every one is talking about is what wave 6 will bring to Rebels and the Empire, and their meta archetypes. What you all think S&V it self bring to the meta? Other than obvious things like Mux, what do you think will challenge/counter the current top lists?

So most of what every one is talking about is what wave 6 will bring to Rebels and the Empire, and their meta archetypes. What you all think S&V it self bring to the meta? Other than obvious things like Mux, what do you think will challenge/counter the current top lists?

There's no way to truly know until we get them on the table

If I may be a bit preemptive, though: viva la Firespray!

Though yes it is a turret, Kavil with Blaster Turr and r4 will be fun

Some interceptor with mangler or hlc fun

Duel aggressor fun

Duel firesprays fun.

I wonder if the hwk pilot who reduces PS0 will see much competitive play

Along with the stealing focus from opponent.

Autothrusters of coarse.

To be fair, Kavil's not really a "turret" in the extreme case (such as the fatties) on account of actually having limitations (no range 3, getting a four dice blaster turret requires focus to fire which can be denied to him, auto turret has a range 1 limit)

Since the opponent can actually counter-play him beyond "just keep him in arc, roll dice, pray he doesn't get lucky on his guaranteed shot" I don't think he deserves be lumped in with the likes of Fat Han

So most of what every one is talking about is what wave 6 will bring to Rebels and the Empire, and their meta archetypes. What you all think S&V it self bring to the meta? Other than obvious things like Mux, what do you think will challenge/counter the current top lists?

I already talked about this a bit, but sure.

• As Krynn007 says, Kavil + Blaster Turret + R4 Agromech is just 30 points for a nasty 4-dice turret. Autothrusters will be his bete noire, but other than that he's a much cheaper HLC Outrider with Range 1-2 instead of Range 2-3. There's a lot of room to put him in a Scum list with 4-5 ships, and I think he'll show up a fair amount.
• Scum Warthogs--cheap, generic Y-wings with the BTL-A4 title, Ion Cannon Turrets, and possibly bombs--will be a mainstay, particularly in the absence of a all-around fighter with a price point in the low 20s.
• Z-95s will show up in about half of Scum lists. They're points-efficient and perennially useful filler, and with Feedback Array or Dead Man's Switch they can actually pose a more substantial threat than Rebel Headhunters do.
• Dual Aggressors will be an early pick for a lot of people, both because it's a fairly obvious archetype and because highly maneuverable ships have a lot of cachet. A lot of people will end up dropping them because they're extremely unforgiving--not much easier than running dual Defenders, actually--but the people that stick with them will be very strong opponents.
• StarVipers won't show up everywhere, but Guri and Xizor are nice ships and the Virago title is definitely worth taking.
• People will experiment with all of the HWKs, but Torkil Mux and Palob Godalhi will stick around. Both have powerful effects, and even if they can be outmaneuvered they'll function as effective and relatively inexpensive area denial.
• I don't think lists consisting of just two Firesprays will take off, although if 2-3 ship lists remain the norm for the Empire and Rebels they could. But Scum Firesprays are points-efficient, and have good pilot abilities as well as a generic with an EPT(!). Firespray/Firespray/Escort will be an archetype that lots of people at least try on, and using one as a heavy, durable centerpiece will be something that sticks around.

getting into range 1 is risky but something i could try if there was a chance of killing it before it shoot back

Correct. Flew PtL Jax against a "Panic Attack" list and never gave my opponent a Range 2 shot for his Tacticians, even if it meant using my second action for positioning and ending up with a stress anyway. Being Jax, Range 1 was important to deny Focus anyway, but I imagine boosting/barrel-rolling Fel into Range 1 and using PtL for a Evade and free Focus token would be just as good.

Interceptors are the definition of risk/rewards ship: if you never take risk with them, you'll never unleash their full potential. No Shields All Guts.

On Vorpal Sword's comment about dual Firesprays:

I'm itching to try a two firespray list as well, close in bobba is scary and kath has far fewer worries when you want something behind her.

Hobo, what do you think about my list?

Only thing I'm currently worried about is feedback array or hotshot blaster on Boba. (for Phantoms).

I'm very excited to learn to try and fly backwards more. I think I can make some magic happen to mitigate the low ship count jousting efficiency.

I like it I'm not sure I'd put on the HLC I was thinking recon specialist on both ships, bobba already gets to re-roll so you won't TL with him so taking a focus action ups offense and defence because some of those dice are bound to turn up eyeballs.

Also there was an image recently that showed bobba with a cost of 42, not sure if it's right because it was blurry but it's something to consider.

I like it I'm not sure I'd put on the HLC I was thinking recon specialist on both ships, bobba already gets to re-roll so you won't TL with him so taking a focus action ups offense and defence because some of those dice are bound to turn up eyeballs.

Also there was an image recently that showed bobba with a cost of 42, not sure if it's right because it was blurry but it's something to consider.

I did remember that. I'd just drop the Feedback or Hotshot and learn to fly better. I mean, I do have a PS9 still.

People have said the same thing: drop HLC. Yet, I feel like I do get 4 dice at the Range I want to be engaging with Kath. From afar. Not too close, as I think the correct thing to do here is to go after Kath actually. Dies much faster.

Recon Spec I will be considering though.

If Boba costs 3 more points, and Kath stays at the same cost. (It might be likely that Kath goes up too??)

This looks like fun

Kavil

Veteran instincts

Blaster Turret

R4

Dace

Veteran instincts

Ion cannon

K4 security Droid

Mandalorian pilot

Tactician

A build I saw on vassal which I thought was fun looking to fly

Kavil

Swarm tactics

Blaster Turret

R4

Syndicate thug x2

Ion cannon

Btl title

Unhinged astromech

N'dru

Lone wolf

Another build

Mandalorian pilot x2

Veteran instincts

Tamsarii pilot

Lone wolf

Heavy scyke title

Hlc

Next

Binayre pilot x4

Deadman switch

Kath

Manger cannon

lone wolf

(because kath is not to be close to the four z)

Just a few builds that look fun, maybe promising

Why would you put a Mangler on non-Imperial Kath? It's an option, certainly, but she's already throwing 3 dice out the front and 4 out the rear.

I'm not saying you should drop the HLC just saying what I'd personally do

I really don't trust green dice so there's always that voice in my head saying I should max defence whenever I can.

Of all of S&V, the Starviper is perhaps the oddest thing I have seen in a while

I am really curious to see how the Virago title is going to fit in with the loaded action bar, low ps, and strange pilot abilities (range 1 to get a focus assigned when low PS makes it more difficult to guarantee range 1, and a "human shield" ability that favors cheaper or more durable but either way far less mobile ships)

Not that I don't think they wont be effective, but the Star Viper is not a ship that lends itself to a simple analysis. You can understand why Whisper is so powerful at a glance, but Xizor is going to take a lot of table time for me to figure out.