If you've actually tried even dice rolling with Soontir PTL Auto and STEALTH. you will understand very quickly that Soontir now can completely evade fire from Fat Han for the full duration of surviving to nearly the same amount of time. Read that again.

Now try it.

So there's an actual, tangible benefit to arc dodging? That sounds broken, almost like it was never meant to be in this game

some worlds-tier player articles have been crying foul about phantoms since Wave 4... and what has that accomplished?

Can you provide links?

Recently, Theorist posted an extended article on Team Covenant. http://teamcovenant.com/theorist/2015/01/01/wave-after-wave-does-phantom-haunt-the-game/

However, the second part of Fickle's statement ( you didn't quote it), that they've been doing the same about fat turrets isn't quite accurate. I haven't seen the same level of concern from top tier players on those.

some worlds-tier player articles have been crying foul about phantoms since Wave 4... and what has that accomplished?

Can you provide links?

Kinetic Operator has been one of the more consistent posters here about what it has done to the meta. I thought he posted one here before the phantom was released, but I can't find the exact thread. Here is at least one of his posts about it #19 and there are several others there as well that still hold true seven months later http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/109494-phantom-the-new-best-ship/page-2

Recently, Theorist posted an extended article on Team Covenant. http://teamcovenant.com/theorist/2015/01/01/wave-after-wave-does-phantom-haunt-the-game/

However, the second part of Fickle's statement ( you didn't quote it), that they've been doing the same about fat turrets isn't quite accurate. I haven't seen the same level of concern from top tier players on those.

probably not the correct word choice of my part

at most, they've recognized it as another dominating force in the post wave 4 meta because the phantom would crash into it like the tide against the rock shore, but they did not make articles and how meta bending it was despite its undeniable effectiveness.

the less professional playerbase kept up their end of the bargain, though

but hey, somehow we got auto-thrusters and not a rebel captive mod so all's well that ends well

Now that phantoms won't be the only hyper mobile ship that can last a little bit against a turret (imo, probably the reason they have an effective 4/4 profile or they'd go in the same bin as interceptors), hopefully Wave 6 will end up making both ships appear in more reasonable numbers.

some worlds-tier player articles have been crying foul about phantoms since Wave 4... and what has that accomplished?

Can you provide links?

Kinetic Operator has been one of the more consistent posters here about what it has done to the meta. I thought he posted one here before the phantom was released, but I can't find the exact thread. Here is at least one of his posts about it #19 and there are several others there as well that still hold true seven months later http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/109494-phantom-the-new-best-ship/page-2

Recently, Theorist posted an extended article on Team Covenant. http://teamcovenant.com/theorist/2015/01/01/wave-after-wave-does-phantom-haunt-the-game/

However, the second part of Fickle's statement ( you didn't quote it), that they've been doing the same about fat turrets isn't quite accurate. I haven't seen the same level of concern from top tier players on those.

Thanks. I'm familiar with KO's stance on it, and I tend to ignore/discount Theorist, but I was worried I'd missed some important part of the conversation. (c:

some worlds-tier player articles have been crying foul about phantoms since Wave 4... and what has that accomplished?

Can you provide links?

Kinetic Operator has been one of the more consistent posters here about what it has done to the meta. I thought he posted one here before the phantom was released, but I can't find the exact thread. Here is at least one of his posts about it #19 and there are several others there as well that still hold true seven months later http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/109494-phantom-the-new-best-ship/page-2

Recently, Theorist posted an extended article on Team Covenant. http://teamcovenant.com/theorist/2015/01/01/wave-after-wave-does-phantom-haunt-the-game/

However, the second part of Fickle's statement ( you didn't quote it), that they've been doing the same about fat turrets isn't quite accurate. I haven't seen the same level of concern from top tier players on those.

Thanks. I'm familiar with KO's stance on it, and I tend to ignore/discount Theorist, but I was worried I'd missed some important part of the conversation. (c:

Well, whatever you think of theorist, his article produced some of the best discussion on the topic there has been and there were several very good players who joined the discussion there.

anyway, enough living in the past. We're gonna put it behind us and focus on the glorious, villainous future

We still haven't gotten to how (if) the other flavor of Interceptor (Styx) will change up the meta

Personally not looking forward to the 4 cannon lists headed by VI Seirussu because that **** sounds brutal

anyway, enough living in the past. We're gonna put it behind us and focus on the glorious, villainous future

We still haven't gotten to how (if) the other flavor of Interceptor (Styx) will change up the meta

Personally not looking forward to the 4 cannon lists headed by VI Seirussu because that **** sounds brutal

Actually it doesn't look promising. Glass cannons, prone to fickle green dice, expensive, not super cost efficient either.

Well, whatever you think of theorist, his article produced some of the best discussion on the topic there has been and there were several very good players who joined the discussion there.

Bluntly, my opinion of Theorist is that if he said the sun was going to rise in the east tomorrow morning, I'd want to talk to two astronomers and a physicist before I agreed.

KO's position is, more or less, the one I've come around to: the Phantom is a huge obstacle for lists that don't plan to face it, and it also comes with a fairly narrow range of counters. That creates a much narrower set of reliable tournament lists than would otherwise be the case, and on that basis, a change originating from FFG would be a good thing for the game.

The good news is that even if that change isn't immediately forthcoming, Scum is bringing in a few new elements that will be problematic for Phantoms--Kavil, Torkil Mux, and Flechette Cannons are fairly hard counters, and more Heavy Laser Cannon and Proximity Mine carriers are softer but still potentially effective.

anyway, enough living in the past. We're gonna put it behind us and focus on the glorious, villainous future

We still haven't gotten to how (if) the other flavor of Interceptor (Styx) will change up the meta

Personally not looking forward to the 4 cannon lists headed by VI Seirussu because that **** sounds brutal

Actually it doesn't look promising. Glass cannons, prone to fickle green dice, expensive, not super cost efficient either.

Indeed, the green dice are why I won't personally be building it (even if Seirussu helps a bit)

But you can't tell me that 3/4 ships farting out 4 dice ignoring the range 3 bonus doesn't hold some potential

HLC Scyk (prefer Styx ) draw a very interesting parallel to the Sigma Phantom. They lose out on the cloak, 1 PS, and range 1 bonus, but they gain heavily in that you can take 4 Scyk and have one of them be an upgraded character whereas the sigmas cannot.

Against other ships of similar pricing (such as the B-wing or the poor X-wing) I can easily see how the Scyk can shine. The fact that an hlc Scyk costs the same as a red squadron pilot is something I find really funny (and sad)

Alternatively, paying 20 points for a constant 3 dice of damage (including one hit to crit) and ignoring the range 3 bonus is a very interesting prospect. I would not run 5, myself, but it does fit a very interesting point slot.

I cannot wait to run:

N'dru w/Lonewolf, Cluster Missles, Hot Shot Blaster, Shield Upgrade

Pirates x5 w/Feedback Array.

The only thing I dislike with this build is that you have so many Pirates on the board that maintaining R2 with N'Dru is going to be tricky.

Which is why the version of that build that I'm looking at replaces N'Dru with Laetin A'shera in an HLC-equipped Heavy Scyk with either a Hull Upgrade or Stealth Device. Or just a naked Guri.

Yeah, you and Obi have a point there. I had considered Laetin before as well but I don't like that the ship doesn't have a 1 straight. I'll test them both out and see how they fly.

I dont know what wave 6 will do to the meta game, but I do know I desperately want to try out 2 hyper manoeuvrable Agressors. C+D with Sensors and VI or Stay on target are going to be a blast to fly!

Really, who cares about Wave VI? It's all about X-1s now!

I dont know what wave 6 will do to the meta game, but I do know I desperately want to try out 2 hyper manoeuvrable Agressors. C+D with Sensors and VI or Stay on target are going to be a blast to fly!

This makes me happy simply because it gets to the heart of what this game is about. Having fun flying models around. Not, what does this model do in this specific scenario against models x, y, and z.

PS. I don't care about the meta. I just want to have fun flying scyks