Idk, but i think running this looks like fun

Fel

Ptl

Autothrusters

Howlrunner

4x academy

Or

Fel

Ptl

Autothrusters

Title

Stealth device

Howlrunner

Swarm tactics

Mauler

Swarm tactics

2 academy

Haven't flown a mini swarm in a long while. Kind of miss it, and I hope wave 6 brings it back, in a way

I just don't want Fel to be the next Phantom with all those soon to be threads about how Soontir is overpowered/breaking the game/easy mode... Please... not him too...

Torkix Mul will be the Anti-Phantom ship, also we will see a lot of interceptors and A-wings.

And I will be very happy to make lists with my beloved Ten Numb, Veteran Insticts and Mangler Cannon, so I can have Phantoms and Interceptors for breakfast

• Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Stealth Device + Autothrusters will appear in 30-50% of Imperial lists.

That's what I think makes me sad about wave 6 and Autothrusters because I fear you are right.

I really really love running Fel and do so whenever I can. Autothrusters is like a gift from heaven for him because that's all he was missing to be really competitive. But on the other hand, there is nothing I hate the most than flying a ship that we see in every list.

So, just when I get his alternative pilot card, I guess I won't be flying him as much as I used to.... unless I just accept it and make him the exception that prove the rule. Does it still count if I don't take Stealth Device?

If it becomes that proliferated it is going to push more people into Decimator w/Vader Crew or the aforementioned Ten Numb + Mangler Cannon as a way to get it under control. I've been testing with and testing against that version of Soontir and there are so many ways it can just completely ignore your attack, it's so very good if your opponent is playing without something that guarantees damage getting through.

While I don't anticipate the current top builds having much trouble in the transition (I think Fat Han will need to evolve in some way, though I am as yet unsure how), I think as with any new wave, the Meta will be in flux for a few weeks until things settle down, I anticipate that by the time the first regional is played, we'll have an idea of what will likely be the top lists being run.

Yes and no

New lists will be seen

Fan han will evolve and still completely annihilate interceptors and whisper lists

My new favorite meta killing list

Han Solo, vet instincts, gunner, c3p0, engine upgrade, falcon title

Lt Blount, ion missle

Gold squadron, btl title, autoblaster turret.

Phantom meta? Ps11 falcon says goodbye whisper, even goldy gets a free hit or two in with auto blaster double shots, Lt Blount always hits with his ion missle atk meaning free damage and the phantom does a 1 straight next turn and Can't decloak

Super fel all jacked up with autothrusters, stealth device range 3 behind an asteroid? Not so super when he's automatically getting hit with an ion missle next turn losing stealth device and taking a damage on his oh so fragile ship, then followed up by a range 1 in arc Han Solo, and if by some miracle he survives Hans 3-4 modified double gunner shots, he is going to autotake hits from goldy double shoting uncancelable autoblaster. But let's be honest he is not Surviving that volley.

why don't people use lt Blount w ion missle more. His ability raw says he automatically hits with HSI atk even if he does no damage. Ion missle says if this atk hits cancel any hits defender receives 1 dam and 2 ion tokens. It should mean raw ion missle always takes effect.

Decimators, firespray, yt2400 or ig2000 lists are another who cares because even they get screwed for a turn with auto hitting ion missles. Then pounded by a double shorting goldy and fat han gunner who always shots first.

What this lists does it makes ur evade dice mean very little and control that overpriced manuverable annoying ship next turn into a more predictable spot. It's weakness is Blount becomes a huge target who may not get that range 3 shot off even at a respectable ps6. Goldy moves like a garbage truck and requires in arc range 1 shots for her unavoidable double shot damage. And fat han is susceptible to being burned down with focus fire even w title and c3po. I kinda wish I had the points to put lone wolf on him instead because lone wolf just makes the falcon even more survivable and better offensively.

it **** well ******* better

this wave has been my least favorite by miles

I 100% agree with you

Scum as a faction looks down-right fascinating and will hopefully get people out of the high PS or bust kick. The emphasis on lower PS pilots and just sheer movement-related craziness such as Virago and the Aggressor gives me hope that players will focus on predicting and out-thinking the opponent instead of just reaction boosting all day long.

Wave 6 will change the meta, not so much for introducing dedicated counters but for re-introducing viable variety into the game.

Technically, before phantoms came along (pre wave 4) the meta was exactly that. Low pilot skills to form lots of bodies dominated the scene and ran triumphant in the competitive scene

Though Echo is just a purely disgusting ship in capable hands and that's almost unbeatable in match ups that aren't designed to fight him. The introduction of the phantom did one thing right; which is bring back the high pilot skill ships into the meta to serve a purpose over fielding an extra body or two in it's place

i for one think it's healthier for the game to have both high and low pilot skills. Both have their merits and with both autothrusters and the new improved tie advanced on the way, phantoms are very likely to fall back into line with most other ships

if you've ever had echo or whisper face off with a capable interceptor player running soontir fel. Even they can be defeated with ease

only problem is soontir fel without autothrusters is too much of a liability to run with a heavy turret meta

Oh I forgot about feedback array. That's pretty nasty. Might hold back whisper/Echo and make all turrets less appetizing.

• Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Stealth Device + Autothrusters will appear in 30-50% of Imperial lists.

That's what I think makes me sad about wave 6 and Autothrusters because I fear you are right.

I honestly don't think he's going to be nearly as intimidating as that

The baron's still flying around in in a 3 red dice Tie fighter and he's far and away easier to block than a Phantom. Fell's slippery, but unlike whisper he's actually dangerous to use. His post maneuver movements are limited to the 1 templates, making them more effective the closer he is to the enemy. The closer he is to the enemy, the easier it is to block him.

Fell's theoretical power is probably the result of examining the baron through the Wave 5 lens of ermagod ps9+ turrrrrrehts where yeah, the guaranteed defenses and green dice will play havoc so long as he's out of arc. On the flip side, he makes one mistake with that dial, and it's more than likely curtains.

Not to mention that the hype is facing competition from the Raider expansion. Interceptors will certainly be coming back in spades with the vaunted auto-thrusters fix, but the Tie Advance will also be exploding onto the scene as a relatively cheap, solid ship that isn't held together by spit and prayer.

• Soontir Fel + Push the Limit + Stealth Device + Autothrusters will appear in 30-50% of Imperial lists.

That's what I think makes me sad about wave 6 and Autothrusters because I fear you are right.

I honestly don't think he's going to be nearly as intimidating as that

The baron's still flying around in in a 3 red dice Tie fighter and he's far and away easier to block than a Phantom. Fell's slippery, but unlike whisper he's actually dangerous to use. His post maneuver movements are limited to the 1 templates, making them more effective the closer he is to the enemy. The closer he is to the enemy, the easier it is to block him.

Fell's theoretical power is probably the result of examining the baron through the Wave 5 lens of ermagod ps9+ turrrrrrehts where yeah, the guaranteed defenses and green dice will play havoc so long as he's out of arc. On the flip side, he makes one mistake with that dial, and it's more than likely curtains.

Not to mention that the hype is facing competition from the Raider expansion. Interceptors will certainly be coming back in spades with the vaunted auto-thrusters fix, but the Tie Advance will also be exploding onto the scene as a relatively cheap, solid ship that isn't held together by spit and prayer.

Well, I certainly hope you're right.

But don't forget that Fel is just as good for staying at range 3 where autothrusters also activate. Range 3 first turn, next turn get into range 1 and arc dodge, next turn get away to range 3+, turn back and repeat, turtle up in case of heavy fire.

But you're right, flying Interceptor is not as easy as it looks, there is a lot of way to counter them. So here's hoping, but some of my friends already think he is borderline OP even without Autothruster, I would just hate to also see it on the forum.

Won't change much, the current top tier lists will still be top tier. We'll see some fel's and jax's, see some tie advances, we'll see goofy lists for awhile. Some mid tier lists will drop to low tier, we will see a ton of new mid tier lists with scum, scum MIGHT even be able to get a list into the top tier. Imperials will win more often.

Dash and a Mangler Canon everywhere!

Played against it last week my friend fired on turr for eight turns and didn't land one hit as he and tetran tore him appart, he was really getting frustrated by it but I can't feel sorry because he's using a turret ship.

For turret ship builds escorts are about to become really important because they are your best bet to take out an autoceptor, taking low ps guys just means they get outmanuvered or killed before doing much.

Well, I certainly hope you're right.

But don't forget that Fel is just as good for staying at range 3 where autothrusters also activate. Range 3 first turn, next turn get into range 1 and arc dodge, next turn get away to range 3+, turn back and repeat, turtle up in case of heavy fire.

But you're right, flying Interceptor is not as easy as it looks, there is a lot of way to counter them. So here's hoping, but some of my friends already think he is borderline OP even without Autothruster, I would just hate to also see it on the forum.

I'm sure they'll come flocking, but we'll be ready

In addition to blocking, Fell is also easier to control than the phantom. While you basically need to peg that phantom before it shoots to shut it down, a Fell that takes a stress at any time after Pushing the Limit...

Both hate ion at about the same degree

While we're at it, Vader is also not incredibly fond of either. A stressed Vader has to contend with the Advance's green maneuvers and there aren't many of them.

Basically we must heed the wise words of Master Yoda: "Control! Control! You must learn control!"

Dash and a Mangler Canon everywhere!

Played against it last week my friend fired on turr for eight turns and didn't land one hit as he and tetran tore him appart, he was really getting frustrated by it but I can't feel sorry because he's using a turret ship.

For turret ship builds escorts are about to become really important because they are your best bet to take out an autoceptor, taking low ps guys just means they get outmanuvered or killed before doing much.

Not only a Turret, but the one Turret that had a liability and then completely discarded it the moment the mangler was released

give them no quarter, afford them no mercy. Wave 6 is coming

Well, I certainly hope you're right.

But don't forget that Fel is just as good for staying at range 3 where autothrusters also activate. Range 3 first turn, next turn get into range 1 and arc dodge, next turn get away to range 3+, turn back and repeat, turtle up in case of heavy fire.

But you're right, flying Interceptor is not as easy as it looks, there is a lot of way to counter them. So here's hoping, but some of my friends already think he is borderline OP even without Autothruster, I would just hate to also see it on the forum.

I'm sure they'll come flocking, but we'll be ready

In addition to blocking, Fell is also easier to control than the phantom. While you basically need to peg that phantom before it shoots to shut it down, a Fell that takes a stress at any time after Pushing the Limit...

That's why you have to play it smart. If you know you can get another stress this turn, you can either:

-Make sure that you'll be able to get out of range next turn while clearing the first stress and come back a turn later

-Feed on the stress to get your free focus: When up against a ship with rebel captive, just do one action, shoot the target and gain a focus with your stress.

It happened to me a couple time during my last tourney and it wasn't as bad as it looked. As I said earlier, you just have to think a couple turn in advance an don't rush in without a plan.

That's why you have to play it smart. If you know you can get another stress this turn, you can either:

-Make sure that you'll be able to get out of range next turn while clearing the first stress and come back a turn later

-Feed on the stress to get your free focus: When up against a ship with rebel captive, just do one action, shoot the target and gain a focus with your stress.

It happened to me a couple time during my last tourney and it wasn't as bad as it looked. As I said earlier, you just have to think a couple turn in advance an don't rush in without a plan.

Ah, but no push the limit means possibly no evade token, no use of Soontir's ability (Rebel captive excepted), only one of boost or barrel roll...

There's no way for Soontir to easily ignore stress. He always has to give up some of his power in return for not utilizing Push the Limit, unlike a Phantom who never inflicts it on itself.

Nothing's ever a done deal in these games, I'm just trying to balance out the dread faced at the pairing of the baron and his shiny new mod. We have plenty of old tech that may or may not have been forgotten in the Wave 5 blitz of boring sameness, and it's going to be very effective against the newest things.

I think it needs to get off the boat first.

That's why you have to play it smart. If you know you can get another stress this turn, you can either:

-Make sure that you'll be able to get out of range next turn while clearing the first stress and come back a turn later

-Feed on the stress to get your free focus: When up against a ship with rebel captive, just do one action, shoot the target and gain a focus with your stress.

It happened to me a couple time during my last tourney and it wasn't as bad as it looked. As I said earlier, you just have to think a couple turn in advance an don't rush in without a plan.

Ah, but no push the limit means possibly no evade token, no use of Soontir's ability (Rebel captive excepted), only one of boost or barrel roll...

There's no way for Soontir to easily ignore stress. He always has to give up some of his power in return for not utilizing Push the Limit, unlike a Phantom who never inflicts it on itself.

Nothing's ever a done deal in these games, I'm just trying to balance out the dread faced at the pairing of the baron and his shiny new mod. We have plenty of old tech that may or may not have been forgotten in the Wave 5 blitz of boring sameness, and it's going to be very effective against the newest things.

Yeah, I managed to have a very lucky game against a skilled Soontir player with Autothrusters where I hit him with a Tactician and R3A2. I didn't actually deal any damage that round, but he left that engagement with three stress tokens on him and died two turns later.

That's why you have to play it smart. If you know you can get another stress this turn, you can either:

-Make sure that you'll be able to get out of range next turn while clearing the first stress and come back a turn later

-Feed on the stress to get your free focus: When up against a ship with rebel captive, just do one action, shoot the target and gain a focus with your stress.

It happened to me a couple time during my last tourney and it wasn't as bad as it looked. As I said earlier, you just have to think a couple turn in advance an don't rush in without a plan.

Ah, but no push the limit means possibly no evade token, no use of Soontir's ability (Rebel captive excepted), only one of boost or barrel roll...

There's no way for Soontir to easily ignore stress. He always has to give up some of his power in return for not utilizing Push the Limit, unlike a Phantom who never inflicts it on itself.

Quite frankly, those are some of the best situations I get and why I love flying with Fel: the challenge.

But except for Rebel Captive, what other stress inducing upgrades there is?

-Flechette Cannon and Mara Jade only work on ship that doesn't already have a stress token, so we don't have to take it into acount.

-Flechette Torpedoes: range 2-3 only. Arc dodge is always an option against lower PS ship. If imposible, getting into range 1 is risky but something i could try if there was a chance of killing it before it shoot back. Or at range 3 you could always Evade combined with Autothruster for a very good chance at 2 evade, or focus if you took stealth device also. And there is always the possibility of running away next turn.

-Then there's the stress droid: But he gives the stress before the attack so it would give you the focus for your defense so again, you could also just take one action the turn it has a sight on you if you can't get away next turn to clear the second stress.

I'm probably forgetting some other obscure one but, from my experience, stress inducing upgrades are merely nuisance against Fel that you need to take into account.

And just to be clear, I don't think Fel is overpowered or will be with Autothrusters, he does have his weaknesses. It's just that lately, a lot of people come to the forum to complaint about that ship that they have trouble playing against and I'm pretty sure that, even if he is in no way OP, there will be those guys somewhere that got beaten by a good Fel player that will come over here and whine about it.

That's why you have to play it smart. If you know you can get another stress this turn, you can either:

-Make sure that you'll be able to get out of range next turn while clearing the first stress and come back a turn later

-Feed on the stress to get your free focus: When up against a ship with rebel captive, just do one action, shoot the target and gain a focus with your stress.

It happened to me a couple time during my last tourney and it wasn't as bad as it looked. As I said earlier, you just have to think a couple turn in advance an don't rush in without a plan.

Ah, but no push the limit means possibly no evade token, no use of Soontir's ability (Rebel captive excepted), only one of boost or barrel roll...

There's no way for Soontir to easily ignore stress. He always has to give up some of his power in return for not utilizing Push the Limit, unlike a Phantom who never inflicts it on itself.

Nothing's ever a done deal in these games, I'm just trying to balance out the dread faced at the pairing of the baron and his shiny new mod. We have plenty of old tech that may or may not have been forgotten in the Wave 5 blitz of boring sameness, and it's going to be very effective against the newest things.

Yeah, I managed to have a very lucky game against a skilled Soontir player with Autothrusters where I hit him with a Tactician and R3A2. I didn't actually deal any damage that round, but he left that engagement with three stress tokens on him and died two turns later.

Tactician! Thank you, I knew I forgot some.

R3-A2 and Tactician are the ones to look out for unless Nera picks up in popularity (with darth and soontir hitting the table, she may well especially because Aggressors are in the 4 hull range without a hull upgrade...which takes up an auto-thruster slot)

Both are criminally under-utilized because of the Phantom Ps Game (doesn't stop V.I Wes, though ), but since Vader and Soontir have no ACD mechanics, I expect them to return and in greater numbers.

Dash and a Mangler Canon everywhere!

Played against it last week my friend fired on turr for eight turns and didn't land one hit as he and tetran tore him appart, he was really getting frustrated by it but I can't feel sorry because he's using a turret ship.

For turret ship builds escorts are about to become really important because they are your best bet to take out an autoceptor, taking low ps guys just means they get outmanuvered or killed before doing much.

And I agree on your thoughts about escorts:

Blue+Tactician x2

Dash+Outrider+Mangler+PTL+Leebo

This build eats action reliant builds for breakfast. Stress is about to become a real thing after Wave 6... and I don't think most are preparing for how to deal with it.

Fat han will evolve and still completely annihilate interceptors and whisper lists

My new favorite meta killing list

Han Solo, vet instincts, gunner, c3p0, engine upgrade, falcon title

Lt Blount, ion missle

Gold squadron, btl title, autoblaster turret.

Phantom meta? Ps11 falcon says goodbye whisper, even goldy gets a free hit or two in with auto blaster double shots, Lt Blount always hits with his ion missle atk meaning free damage and the phantom does a 1 straight next turn and Can't decloak

Super fel all jacked up with autothrusters, stealth device range 3 behind an asteroid? Not so super when he's automatically getting hit with an ion missle next turn losing stealth device and taking a damage on his oh so fragile ship, then followed up by a range 1 in arc Han Solo, and if by some miracle he survives Hans 3-4 modified double gunner shots, he is going to autotake hits from goldy double shoting uncancelable autoblaster. But let's be honest he is not Surviving that volley.

Decimators, firespray, yt2400 or ig2000 lists are another who cares because even they get screwed for a turn with auto hitting ion missles causing them to potentially fly into asteroids. Then pounded by a double shooting goldy and her uncancelable hits and fat han gunner who always shoots first.

What this lists does it makes ur evade dice mean very little and control that overpriced manuverable annoying ship next turn into a more predictable spot. It's weakness is Blount becomes a huge target who may not get that range 3 shot off even at a respectable ps6. Goldy moves like a garbage truck and requires in arc range 1 shots at least for her unavoidable double shot damage. And fat han is susceptible to being burned down with focus fire even w title and c3po. I kinda wish I had the points to put lone wolf on him instead because lone wolf just makes the falcon even more survivable and better offensively.

MEh, there's nothing evolved about that Fat Han. I've seen that exact same build at least fifty times over the course of this wave for the expressed purpose of countering Phantoms and there's nothing in there that particularly tackles auto-thrusters unless you're boosting into arc,

If you're relying on Blount to auto-peg a mobile ship, I'd advise you simply not to. Your chances of arcing a fast ship with a non-barrel roll non-boost low PS head hunter are already low enough unless you are insanely skilled or flying some blocking chaffe alongside him, and the dependency on target-lock just compounds the difficulty. Would not bother flying him without the Deadeye EPT.

He's great if you can get him to work, especially in those situations where the phantom lucks out and just needs that 1 more damage to die where you can just pseudo-vader it, but it's definitely a case of easier said than done.

Fel will NEVER reach the level of Whisper. For one, he is much more skill-demanding and action-dependent. Two, he can be blocked much easier. Three, no base 4 attack. Four, no crew, system, or ACD shenanigans. Five, still a 3-hull, 0 shield base ship. All of these will keep him from being a no-brainer like Whisper/ACD/VI and only thrive with a skilled player. I am TOTALLY fine with that. Challenge accepted.

I have yet see anything that will really curb Fat Hans thus far. A few nickel and dime effects, but I don't quite see them all coming together in an accessible fashion. Falcons are likely not the leaving the competitive scene any time soon except by players choosing to run something else.

Fel will NEVER reach the level of Whisper. For one, he is much more skill-demanding and action-dependent. Two, he can be blocked much easier. Three, no base 4 attack. Four, no crew, system, or ACD shenanigans. Five, still a 3-hull, 0 shield base ship. All of these will keep him from being a no-brainer like Whisper/ACD/VI and only thrive with a skilled player. I am TOTALLY fine with that. Challenge accepted.

I have yet see anything that will really curb Fat Hans thus far. A few nickel and dime effects, but I don't quite see them all coming together in an accessible fashion. Falcons are likely not the leaving the competitive scene any time soon except by players choosing to run something else.

All the agreement

AS I maintain, we won't be seeing change because we're shoving the old meta off the table, Warhammer style, but because we're introducing more viable options into the game.

For example, Auto-thrusters and the X1 title are re-introducing 2 ships that have the durability required to stand against fatties (auto-thrusters plus action efficiency on the Interceptor, 2 extra shields and almost consequence free evade action on the Advance because of guaranteed damage, especially if they're taking AC)

MEh, there's nothing evolved about that Fat Han. I've seen that exact same build at least fifty times over the course of this wave for the expressed purpose of countering Phantoms and there's nothing in there that particularly tackles auto-thrusters unless you're boosting into arc,

If you're relying on Blount to auto-peg a mobile ship, I'd advise you simply not to. Your chances of arcing a fast ship with a non-barrel roll non-boost low PS head hunter are already low enough unless you are insanely skilled or flying some blocking chaffe alongside him, and the dependency on target-lock just compounds the difficulty. Would not bother flying him without the Deadeye EPT.

He's great if you can get him to work, especially in those situations where the phantom lucks out and just needs that 1 more damage to die where you can just pseudo-vader it, but it's definitely a case of easier said than done.

Fat Han will fold once focus fire damage is able to burn him down in 2-3 turns. 4x adv w adv targeting will put out 12-15 hits a turn on a durable platform that the falcon can't kill each turn. The 4x adavanced list biggest issues will be highly mobile ships. Who are able to completely avoid thier damage.