As the topic says, are there any equivalents to the ways of the weapons finesse feat (from Pathfinder/D&D) in SWRPG? One of my players is looking at having a swashbuckling "retired" pirate and using Agility instead of Brawn for attack/damage would be his preferred option - so I'm looking at options for him.

Any help from this fine community would be appreciated.

Force and Destiny has a series of 10-point talents in each of the careers that allow you to swap out Lightsaber (Brawn) for other characteristics depending on the style of lightsaber combat.

Example: "Ataru Technique: When making a check using the Lightsaber skill, the character may use Agility instead of Brawn."

If you want to house rule it, charge him 10 XP and let him have the "Corellian Fencing Technique: When making a check using the Melee skill with a one handed bladed weapon, the character may use Agility instead of Brawn. The weapon cannot have the Cumbersome quality."

This has come up before, and I think the general consensus is it's best to avoid it. You could make it a hard-to-get-to Talent, but Agility is already a pretty heavily emphasized characteristic. Allowing this would make the character an excellent shooter, gunner, pilot, acrobat, and combat specialist.

At best you could allow the dice pool to use Agility, but keep the base damage based on Brawn.

You could "house rule" a career for the player.....

This brings about the idea of non-career talents which is something I think would add flavour but not be too powerful. Unfortunately, that creates Feats for SWRPG - and nobody wants that

This brings about the idea of non-career talents which is something I think would add flavour but not be too powerful. Unfortunately, that creates Feats for SWRPG - and body wants that

Whose body? And where did you hide it?

I would recommend force and destiny as well. the makashi would be better for a swashbuckler, presence based. change lightsaber to melee. they won't get the force powers, but its already balanced, so OP isn't a problem. my non force zeltron is this and I love every minute of it.

Force and Destiny has a series of 10-point talents in each of the careers that allow you to swap out Lightsaber (Brawn) for other characteristics depending on the style of lightsaber combat.

Example: "Ataru Technique: When making a check using the Lightsaber skill, the character may use Agility instead of Brawn."

If you want to house rule it, charge him 10 XP and let him have the "Corellian Fencing Technique: When making a check using the Melee skill with a one handed bladed weapon, the character may use Agility instead of Brawn. The weapon cannot have the Cumbersome quality."

It's 10 EXP but another 5 to get the one before it and then the cost of getting the new Specialization.

Also, and this is important, those Talents are for a single weapon only (Lightsabre). So if you are planning on allowing this you should follow this precedent and only allow the new Talent to work with a single melee weapon not all of them or even all blade weapons or Blunt or whatever. Otherwise it will upset the balance that whafrog and others are talking about. Justify it by saying that the training is specific (as it really would be) and that the PC can take the Talent multiple times, one for each weapon they want to "finesse".

I'd also require that the weapon be of Superior quality.

When House Ruling anything that affects Combat be as conservative as possible while still getting what you need and always use a precedent in the RAW as a base before you make it up from whole cloth.

Presence is totally the swashbuckling characteristic. That's got my vote.

As another idea, maybe create a weapon attachment that you can apply to a specific melee weapon, which allows the character to make combat checks using that preferred characteristic. Keeps it under control that way, and eats up a hard point.


Edit: "eats," not "rates." Stupid swype thingy.

Force and Destiny has a series of 10-point talents in each of the careers that allow you to swap out Lightsaber (Brawn) for other characteristics depending on the style of lightsaber combat.

Example: "Ataru Technique: When making a check using the Lightsaber skill, the character may use Agility instead of Brawn."

If you want to house rule it, charge him 10 XP and let him have the "Corellian Fencing Technique: When making a check using the Melee skill with a one handed bladed weapon, the character may use Agility instead of Brawn. The weapon cannot have the Cumbersome quality."

It's 10 EXP but another 5 to get the one before it and then the cost of getting the new Specialization.

Also, and this is important, those Talents are for a single weapon only (Lightsabre). So if you are planning on allowing this you should follow this precedent and only allow the new Talent to work with a single melee weapon not all of them or even all blade weapons or Blunt or whatever. Otherwise it will upset the balance that whafrog and others are talking about. Justify it by saying that the training is specific (as it really would be) and that the PC can take the Talent multiple times, one for each weapon they want to "finesse".

I'd also require that the weapon be of Superior quality.

When House Ruling anything that affects Combat be as conservative as possible while still getting what you need and always use a precedent in the RAW as a base before you make it up from whole cloth.

and build a whole tree around the style to give it flavor.

Force and Destiny has a series of 10-point talents in each of the careers that allow you to swap out Lightsaber (Brawn) for other characteristics depending on the style of lightsaber combat.

Example: "Ataru Technique: When making a check using the Lightsaber skill, the character may use Agility instead of Brawn."

If you want to house rule it, charge him 10 XP and let him have the "Corellian Fencing Technique: When making a check using the Melee skill with a one handed bladed weapon, the character may use Agility instead of Brawn. The weapon cannot have the Cumbersome quality."

It's 10 EXP but another 5 to get the one before it and then the cost of getting the new Specialization.

Also, and this is important, those Talents are for a single weapon only (Lightsabre). So if you are planning on allowing this you should follow this precedent and only allow the new Talent to work with a single melee weapon not all of them or even all blade weapons or Blunt or whatever. Otherwise it will upset the balance that whafrog and others are talking about. Justify it by saying that the training is specific (as it really would be) and that the PC can take the Talent multiple times, one for each weapon they want to "finesse".

I'd also require that the weapon be of Superior quality.

When House Ruling anything that affects Combat be as conservative as possible while still getting what you need and always use a precedent in the RAW as a base before you make it up from whole cloth.

and build a whole tree around the style to give it flavor.

it already has a tree built.around it, its called makashi duelist. don't cheapen an entire specialization by giving a free ranging talent. and lightsaber doesn't represent a single weapon, it represents a class of weapons that uses the lightsaber skill, just as the melee skill and ranged light skill do. again, there's already a class for this, sorry, specialization (still can't get over 13 years of d20 training). gage them take the specialization and get everything involved with being a swashbuckler. and feel free to replace one skill with another, that's not gonna break the game.

we're not talking grit here, we're talking something only one class has. one id the foundational ideas that an entire class was built around. do not give away a signature ability for 20 points! and while K like the idea of giving it as a attachment this isn't an advantage, this isn't an extra point of damage, this is the foundation of the makashi duelist tree. do not weaken an entire class and.give your characters a watered down version of it.

sorry, I kinda ranted all over your faces... :*)

edit: that was supposed to be a blush face

we're not talking grit here, we're talking something only one class has. one id the foundational ideas that an entire class was built around. do not give away a signature ability for 20 points! and while K like the idea of giving it as a attachment this isn't an advantage, this isn't an extra point of damage, this is the foundation of the makashi duelist tree. do not weaken an entire class and.give your characters a watered down version of it.

sorry, I kinda ranted all over your faces... :*)

edit: that was supposed to be a blush face

I agree that the initial suggestion may have been too much and stepping on the Duelist's toes, but I believe you're cheapening the specialization by reducing it down to a single talent. The duelist has 19 other talents going on besides that. That aside, while it's the only specialization with that feature for agility, the precedent has been set using other characteristics. Are all of those specializations weakening each other?

I'm rather fond of the idea a home-brewed swashbuckler specialization. Witty remarks (scathing, perhaps?), some acrobatic boosts, and some combat capability. What do you see as the elements that come together to represent a swashbuckler?

we're not talking grit here, we're talking something only one class has. one id the foundational ideas that an entire class was built around. do not give away a signature ability for 20 points! and while K like the idea of giving it as a attachment this isn't an advantage, this isn't an extra point of damage, this is the foundation of the makashi duelist tree. do not weaken an entire class and.give your characters a watered down version of it.

sorry, I kinda ranted all over your faces... :*)

edit: that was supposed to be a blush face

I agree that the initial suggestion may have been too much and stepping on the Duelist's toes, but I believe you're cheapening the specialization by reducing it down to a single talent. The duelist has 19 other talents going on besides that. That aside, while it's the only specialization with that feature for agility, the precedent has been set using other characteristics. Are all of those specializations weakening each other?

I'm rather fond of the idea a home-brewed swashbuckler specialization. Witty remarks (scathing, perhaps?), some acrobatic boosts, and some combat capability. What do you see as the elements that come together to represent a swashbuckler?

blaster and corellian cutlass. Maybe steal some ideas from Saga dealing with that. stuff about using your surroundings. like kicking over tables swinging from chandeliers, the quick witty commments and reparte, maybe cutlass and cloak techniques..

It's called a pistol.

They allow some one to use agility in close combat.

Rather than trying to make a bunch of new rules for this character, why not try to convince him that increasing Brawn is the simple solution?

Brawn 3 and high skill is enough to vibro-sword most things dead.

I think for the most part I would simply leave it as Brawn and narrate the Errol Flynn style.

E

Agreed about talking to the player about using brawn. He or she will also be thankful for the better athletics, soak, wounds, and melee damage.

For the record, this is the character:

Arcz Blakeney

The game suggests creating custom skills (Lightsaber is specifically called out as one, and even one that might use Agility rather than Brawn). You can just make a 'Duelling' skill which works like Melee but keys off Agility rather than Brawn. Job done, entirely within RAW.

Link doesn't work for me?

Anyhoo, I believe the best solution is having a high skill. High characteristics are nice, but not strictly necessary once you roll 5 dice anyway.

Agility is overpowered as it is

The game suggests creating custom skills (Lightsaber is specifically called out as one, and even one that might use Agility rather than Brawn). You can just make a 'Duelling' skill which works like Melee but keys off Agility rather than Brawn. Job done, entirely within RAW.

It also gives the impression that new skills should not replace existing skills, especially when a suitable skill already exists in the game. I'm very much opposed to the idea of just making a clone of an existing skill that just substitutes in whatever Characteristic happens to be higher. IMO, talents allowing a limited substitution (like the various ones in Force and Destiny) are already a bit on the cheesy side, but simply rewriting the linked Characteristics of existing skills is a terrible idea.

It also gives the impression that new skills should not replace existing skills, especially when a suitable skill already exists in the game. I'm very much opposed to the idea of just making a clone of an existing skill that just substitutes in whatever Characteristic happens to be higher. IMO, talents allowing a limited substitution (like the various ones in Force and Destiny) are already a bit on the cheesy side, but simply rewriting the linked Characteristics of existing skills is a terrible idea.

Right, but if it's just for a narrow range of weapons (a la lightsaber or fencing weapons) then it's hardly stepping on other skills' toes.

Plus, a melee character is already disadvantaging themselves by favouring Agility over Brawn- they need the soak and HP.