Micro example....

Take having pre release of a wave at gencon.

That actually does build up hype but it also *annoys* more people than it makes happy as they are hacked off they have to weight six months to get a ship their mate got on the weekend.

Its good PR, its good to get mass playtest feedback and fix anything massive before ramping up production but going

'hey ... look how cool this is! oh sorry, we cant sell it to you, we dont have any in stock'

well that just winds people up

I tend to ignore ads completely. From decades of exposure to banner ads on the early interwebs, my mind no longer processes anything that's rectangular in shape and brightly colored.

I don't watch TV anymore, not in a normal sense. Netflix or newsgroup downloads is all I watch. I won't subscribe to Hulu because there are commercials.

You never truly ignore advertising. One of the basic principles of mktg is positioning. Maybe you've never consciously seen an advertisement for Louis Vuitton. But you know that their products are ridiculously overpriced fashion accessories because of where you have seen their advertisements, stores, etc. Look at the brands that advertise in the magazines you get on aeroplanes. What stores do you walk past on the way to your gate? You know, the empty ones (if you exclude the Aussie backpackers with an Indonesian beer singlet amazed by the $300 ties in Burberry). You get on the flight, you're waiting to take off, no electronics, bored, you flick through that magazine. Those companies advertise in that magazine because we then associate them with established brands. Yet, at no point have you paid any conscious attention to an advertisement.

Did you know Cadbury tried to license the colour purple? Coke has a tight license on their red can and dynamic ribbon. McDonalds even tried to close down a swimwear line ion Australia because it was labelled 'Maccas' (named after the creator). All of these are elements to a brand that don't require a conscious connection.

There are a million things aspects of mktg strategy that transgress beyond a print or TV advertisement. Product, pricing, exclusivity, brand awareness, etc.

Yet word of mouth still remains the most powerful mktg tool. A simple recommendation from a trusted friend trumps all of the above. Given FFG has sold out of models, I think they're doing it right.

However, I'd love to see an X-Wing advertisement in next month's White Dwarf.

Micro example....

Take having pre release of a wave at gencon.

That actually does build up hype but it also *annoys* more people than it makes happy as they are hacked off they have to weight six months to get a ship their mate got on the weekend.

Its good PR, its good to get mass playtest feedback and fix anything massive before ramping up production but going

'hey ... look how cool this is! oh sorry, we cant sell it to you, we dont have any in stock'

well that just winds people up

It also creates a thing called 'exclusivity'. It's not accessible to everyone, thus increasing it's perceived value. Now I want one .. because that fella has it and I can't get it.

Some companies go to great lengths to maintain this. Louis Vuitton burns out of season stock.

Lego excel at this.

Nearly everything they make has a shelf life in store of about two years tops, its then discontinued so in essence *everything* they make is limited edition.

Lego nearly always appreciates in vlaue, especially if you keep the box and instructions in good order.

For my wedding i had eight tables at the wedding breakfast with a different playset on each table with a 'theme' for the table so there was a 'fire station table' 'space base table' 'castle table' etc . All with 80s and 90s 12" baseplate lego 'big sets' from that range. They all cost about what they cost when new or more, i got a few ebay bargains that were badly listed or missing instructions that i found online but on the whole i learned how much of an investment lego is.

The wife and i collect lego, they currently do a range of 'modular building' that are 16 years and older targetted high details houses and shops. You can only get them from lego stores, online and few *big* toystores.

They go on sale at about £120. The ones that were out about five years ago now easily fetch £500

Because 1. its a limited edition and 2. there isnt much in circulation

My jobs and hobbies deal a lot with this sort of thing and its crazy how even once 'valueless' things can appreicate massively when stocks dry up.

I work in the shooting sports/airsoft arena and I write magazine articles about miitaria and military units... to do this i collect 1950s to 1990s uniforms.

In the 1990s you could not *give away* east german stuff, it was flooded on the marker and no one wanted it. I bought an entire border guard uniform for £10 (jacket, pants, shirt, cap, tie, boots).... you'd be lucky to get the belt for that now and post collapse of the soviet union and warsaw pact this stuff continues to appreciate.

*mainly* because a lot of it was bought up and sent to the balkans as 'clothing aid' during the wars there in the 2000s.

But yeah, limited accessabiity can cause prices to rocket, especially if the means of production no longer exists and stocks in warehouses are purged.

At the mo you'd be crazy to pay £100 for a £30 milenium falcon model in the uk of ebay but some people are buying them!

sensible people wait until they make them again and pre order but imagine is the FFG plant caught fire and by fluke the masters and computers files for the rapid protoyping were destoryed in an earthquake and FFG couldnt make any more falcons for say i dont know 'a year' 'two years'.

You'd see them go to £200 and people pay for them then... as long as the game still had its player base.

Good models even withouth the player base still appreciate.

I collect 1980s citadel miniatures. I have models that never even had rules made for them that are worth silly money (piscean warrior 40k sharkmen... got one for about £40... currently fetches close to £100 on ebay on a good day!)

You never truly ignore advertising. One of the basic principles of mktg is positioning. Maybe you've never consciously seen an advertisement for Louis Vuitton.

Who the frak are louis vuitton? never heard of them and have zero concept of what they sell.

I only know of burbury because it's worn by chav's.

I cant even honestly name you a popular aftershave because i never take any notice of them.

Yeah but you might subconsciously be aware of it.

im not into high fashion but I think of exensive clothes when i read that name Vuitton, likewise Burberry was pretty chic befor eit was hijacked in the UK by chavs.

No i very literally can not even picture a logo or an item they sell i've never heard of vuitton before.

That surprises me . Like 'vivian westwood' or 'gaultier', its not my thing but i have heard of them, i'd consider Vuitton with the other two to be 'household names' in general.

I wear 'derelicte', 'man at thrift' or 'surplus store chic' darling, Mwah!

I tend to ignore ads completely. From decades of exposure to banner ads on the early interwebs, my mind no longer processes anything that's rectangular in shape and brightly colored.

I don't watch TV anymore, not in a normal sense. Netflix or newsgroup downloads is all I watch. I won't subscribe to Hulu because there are commercials.

You never truly ignore advertising. One of the basic principles of mktg is positioning. Maybe you've never consciously seen an advertisement for Louis Vuitton. But you know that their products are ridiculously overpriced fashion accessories because of where you have seen their advertisements, stores, etc. Look at the brands that advertise in the magazines you get on aeroplanes. What stores do you walk past on the way to your gate? You know, the empty ones (if you exclude the Aussie backpackers with an Indonesian beer singlet amazed by the $300 ties in Burberry). You get on the flight, you're waiting to take off, no electronics, bored, you flick through that magazine. Those companies advertise in that magazine because we then associate them with established brands. Yet, at no point have you paid any conscious attention to an advertisement.

Did you know Cadbury tried to license the colour purple? Coke has a tight license on their red can and dynamic ribbon. McDonalds even tried to close down a swimwear line ion Australia because it was labelled 'Maccas' (named after the creator). All of these are elements to a brand that don't require a conscious connection.

There are a million things aspects of mktg strategy that transgress beyond a print or TV advertisement. Product, pricing, exclusivity, brand awareness, etc.

Yet word of mouth still remains the most powerful mktg tool. A simple recommendation from a trusted friend trumps all of the above. Given FFG has sold out of models, I think they're doing it right.

However, I'd love to see an X-Wing advertisement in next month's White Dwarf.

I had never heard of Louie Vitton, or Burbury, or Coach, or any of those things until 7 years ago when I got married. My wife's sister was all about those overpriced brand names.

My first experience with this was when my wife's sister started going crazy because she lost her Coach keychain. I joined in the search, but was wondering why we were all in such a tizzy about a keychain. I mean, I didn't even think the show was all that good, so I couldn't imagine why would someone buy a keychain with Craig T. Nelson's picture on it.

It was explained to me that Coach - in this case - didn't refer to the 80's TV show, but instead was a $100+ keychain.

This made even less sense to me, but whatever. My keychain came free with the car I own.

I see your point about the airports especially, but I was Northwest Gold status for years, so even those adverts in the terminals became just more of the noise that they are. I'm sure my brain sees them, but it seems to file them away in a dusty corner that never gets used.

Oh i have a mate who paid about £200 for a £20 pair of skinny jeans with a gold stripe literally *painted* up the side of each leg just because they were 'vivian westwood'

I'd want then gold plated for that money.

I have zero brand loyalty stuff i drink is never advertised i drink it because i like the taste, i'll go a take out over Mcdonalds because you get more for your money.

The names irrelevant next to it's ability to do what i need it to.

And i'm not the exceptions these days i'm the norm.

Especially since, these days, McDonald's costs just as much, if not more, than take out!

I'll drink any soft drink (pop where I come from) of any flavor. I like many of the Faygo flavors or Town Club, or store-brand generics. However, if it's a cola - for me - it absolutely HAS to be Coke. Not for any brand loyalty, mind you, but purely because I like the flavor of Coke, and I think all other colas (including Pepsi) taste the same - horrible.

A lot of advertising happens at a subconscious level. We are exposed to about 8000 advertisements a day, yet can recall few.

The Luois Vuitton example may elude you, but lets take the example away from high fashion. Bugatti, Mazaratti, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini .. all applicable.

I read above that brand names mean nothing. I would argue differently. If two products are presented to you, both equal in every way with the exception of their brand. One is a known brand, the other unknown. There is literally decades of research that suggests the known brand will be chosen most of the time. Sure, sometimes we want to try new things, take a little risk .. this is the exception to the rule though.

If two products are presented to you, both equal in every way with the exception of their brand. One is a known brand, the other unknown. There is literally decades of research that suggests the known brand will be chosen most of the time.

Well sure, yeah. But find me something where everything is exactly the same except the name brand, including price. If I had a choice between two things and the only difference was brand name, yes, I'll take the well-known brand over the no-name generic nearly every time.

All those cars you mentioned are super expensive. Can you say that if you put a Scion (generic example) and a Veyron next to each other that everything is exactly the same except the name? No, there are MANY differences - not just the fact that the Veyron costs 150 times what the Scion does.

I maybe watch two hours of tv a day I assure you I'm not seeing 8000 adverts, what's more when ads come on I channel surf or I pickup my tablet and check one of the forums I'm a member of or watch YouTube.

And as for two perfectly equal things with only the brand differing there's no reason to pick one over the other I grab whatever is nearest my right hand.

But here's the thing sometimes like with medicine there is no difference I've got generic ibuprofen in my cabinet near the toothbrush, but with food there very often is cheap fizzy drinks are quantifiably worse that Pepsi or coke, the quality of supermarkets home brand lines are below named brands in most cases.

Because food involves taste it's more important you go with the better quality when you can afford it, but if all you need is a way to tell the time a cheap watch works as well as a Rolex, cheap android phones provide most if not all the functionality of an iPhone.

Functionality over anything else is my main concern, I'm not so shallow I need other people to read who made my jacket or to make a fuss over my mobiles manufacture when I look something up.

Genxers and milenials avoid advertising whenever we can which is easy given the internet and dvr machines we watch tv through.

I've never seen one however I know Target sells the core set, so they have decent exposure on a national level store wise not including Barnes and Noble of course.

I like watching commercials.

... from the 80s and 90s!

Better commercials for a start, MASSIVE nostalgia factor, and the soothing feeling you wont get tempted because half the stuff is now discontinued.

I like watching commercials.

... from the 80s and 90s!

Better commercials for a start, MASSIVE nostalgia factor, and the soothing feeling you wont get tempted because half the stuff is now discontinued.

Dude I still have dreams about owning this lol...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYAiuJoZ7JI

Another thing to consider is that FFG is now just a subsidiary of Asmodee.

Also - will X-Wing ever reach the sales numbers / wider popularity of Catan or Ticket to Ride? If not, and those games don't advertise, it would be a money pit for X-Wing which is already a success based on word of mouth. Dance with the one who brought you.

They probably dont for the reason we never advertised on TV when i worked for marketing at Games Workshop.

The problem is if you get 'big' as a wargames company (and even GW are a small company in global standards) and hit the jackpot you do yourself more harm than good if you cant meet demand.... and they wouldnt be able to.

Consider *years* ago the 'thunderbirds' relaunch Tracey Island playset was a really big thing, thunderbirds were the new fad toy that christmas in 1992 (and again in 2000)... both times the manufacturers couldnt meet demands and annoyed a lot of parents and destroyed a lot of kids faith in Santa. And that was a proper big toy company that couldnt supply the demand when it was 'the thing'.

If X wing took off and became the 'must have' game for xmas or the holiday season there is no way FFG could ramp up production to meet demand (they struggle to meet demand now) and if they did once the bubble bursts they end up with massive production schedules and no market for it.

Niche hobbies are forced to stay niche by these sort of econommic/marketing problems.

GW played it smart and let MB do most of the work. Mind you Heroqsuest and space crusade had sweet commercials.

Same thing happened with Wizkids and Avengers vs Xmen Dicemasters. (they got better.)

I like watching commercials.

... from the 80s and 90s!

Better commercials for a start, MASSIVE nostalgia factor, and the soothing feeling you wont get tempted because half the stuff is now discontinued.

Dude I still have dreams about owning this lol...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYAiuJoZ7JI

Had it and played with it for years... Found most of it again a few years ago and sold it in pieces on eBay and made a small fortune.

If I could I would still play with my GI Joes, but my grandparents gave most of it away when I discovered girls and then driving.

I was gonna say there aren't that many places to advertise their non x-wing stuff on. You used to have that Inquest (gamer) magazine, but thats been gone for a long while now. And where would you find the Inquest? Right, In a game store!.

No need to put out a monthly mag like GW and privateer.

Best thing for a boardgame company is having good word of mouth, a good site and good SEO.

exactly remember MB games had the capacity to produce games in the scale GW could not, GW just leased the IP

Smartest decision they ever did.

Well second smartest one.

Smartest one was letting Ian Miller do art for the chaos books.