Thank you, Keffisch! It is utter nonsense to think that a Phantom is nigh invulnerable while cloaked.

What made me realise that 'arc spread' was only part of a decent phantom counter was having it pointed out to me that ACD is an 'action' it might happen automatically and be free but its still an 'action'

So stressing a phantom stops ACD triggerig... i didnt know that and in our house we'd played it as just being 'shoot = auto cloak'

wanging a flechette torp at it really ruins its day. Nera is great for this with a 360 arc!

The problem with that is Nera's PS, the Phantom would still get to cloak, and then be stressed.

You'll generally want something that gives it stress - before it resolves its attack.

It's funny how for some, just one more die suddenly make a unit indestructable. From the start, we had to deal with unit with 3 agility and they never were a problem, I never heard someone say that a Tie at range 3 can't be destroyed. And how many horror story we heard, and lived ourselves, about Fel getting one-shotted at range 3 behind an asteroid with a Stealth Device? So surely, 4 agility can't be the problem.

So is it the attack? Since wave 2, we dealt with B-Wings with HLC and now we even have 2 turreted ship that can attack with 4 dice, Expose-Decimator and HLC-Outrider. So why suddenly the attack value is a problem since we had to deal with this kind of firepower from wave 2?

I guess it must be the decloaking mecanic making them dodge every arc possible. I can't deny that a Phantom can be hard to get in sight sometime but the other day, I decided to practice a little against the current meta-build, Decimator+Phantom (turns out it paid off since I met two in my last tournament), with a build without turret and all with lower PS. What I did was move all my ship, since they were all lower PS and then move the ''opponent'' ships accordingly doing the most optimal move possible to dodge my arcs or get into position, as if my opponent always knew exactly what I was doing. It turns out, even by doing the best the Phantom could do to dodge my arc, I still had a shot from time to time. All that to say, if you cover your angles right and block a decloaking spot from time to time, you will get a shot on the Phantom. Just don't rush head on without a plan.

They can be frustrating to go against sometimes, but they are not the power house some people make them out to be. They take skills to maneuver since the player must know exactly where his move will be after his decloak while analysing where his opponent might be. A noob killer for sure, but not a ship that should be flown by an inexperienced player. You can tell the difference when going against an experienced player and not.

The problem with that is Nera's PS, the Phantom would still get to cloak, and then be stressed.

You'll generally want something that gives it stress - before it resolves its attack.

Like pairing Nera with Roark... Nera shoot her Flechette at PS12 to stress the Phantom and Roark Ionize it later.

The problem with that is Nera's PS, the Phantom would still get to cloak, and then be stressed.

You'll generally want something that gives it stress - before it resolves its attack.

Swarm Tactics on a high PS cheap ship, dropping the dagger for say Airen?

Out of interest given that we all think phantoms are *good*. Some of us obviously think they are overpowered but would we *all* still consider them to be at least worthy if they were 3 firepower not 4?

I mean like i've said you cant go back so its all just musing but i think that would be perfect, just taking off one point of firepower.

Like i say what else is FP 4 in the game?

Oh yeah huge ships main armanents.... turbolasers!

a phantom has more firepower than a decimator, that sjust makes no narrative sense to me.

Well, every ship that can equip a HLC can have 4 attack power, then there is Jan that can even boost them to firepower 5, then there is expose on the Decimator that raise it to 4 on a turret and could even be paired with Vader to add a free crit at the right moment, then there is opportunist on Wedge when paired with Wes as a wingman that not only raise his attack to 4 but drop the defense by 1.

So, an attack value of 4 on a ship that cost around 40 is fine by me. We've dealt with that kind of firepower for a long time.

you know what, well put.

I totally overlooked HLC... but even then HLC cant do crits and its four across the board.

uusally a good phantom pilot is decloaking then moving to your flank at range 1 so wanging 5 dice at you with potential of criticals.

I totally concede your point, but i still think its a very high FP for a small ship, espeically one whose engines *should* be powering all that advanced stealth tech, not guns.

Gadge, remember from a fluff perspective firepower on the Phantom doesn't just represent the energy of the laser. What I think the firepower stands for is a combination of a fearsome armament and the element of surprise. The Phantom is the ultimate predator, able to lie in wait and strike an unsuspecting target.

Surprise is, as you know, an incredible force multiplier. It can increase a soldiers effectiveness by a factor of ten! One soldier from behind is worth ten in the front (even though he may only have a M4 verses his squad mates M249). In this instance, not only does the Phantom have surprise, it sports a M249! Ergo: firepower 4.

Stress may block ACD and thereof must be applied before the phantom shoots (requiring higher ps)...but Ion prevents decloaking entirely

Stress Wes might be the bane of a phantom's existence with a PS 10 stress + token removal, but never underestimate the humble gold squadron pilot.

I find rebel captive puts my phantom in a bad place. That stress before I shoot hurts. Turrets also hurt phantoms.

Back to PS, it does matter. It always comes down to "what you want the ship to do" if I want to block then I take PS 1 but predator rips you apart. I have found x wing is the most balanced game when it comes to points. I personally like my support mini swarm to be pilot skill 3. Sure I move after a swarm but I shoot befor them and predator only gets one reroll.

you know what, well put.

I totally overlooked HLC... but even then HLC cant do crits and its four across the board.

uusally a good phantom pilot is decloaking then moving to your flank at range 1 so wanging 5 dice at you with potential of criticals.

I totally concede your point, but i still think its a very high FP for a small ship, espeically one whose engines *should* be powering all that advanced stealth tech, not guns.

Gadge, remember from a fluff perspective firepower on the Phantom doesn't just represent the energy of the laser. What I think the firepower stands for is a combination of a fearsome armament and the element of surprise. The Phantom is the ultimate predator, able to lie in wait and strike an unsuspecting target.

Surprise is, as you know, an incredible force multiplier. It can increase a soldiers effectiveness by a factor of ten! One soldier from behind is worth ten in the front (even though he may only have a M4 verses his squad mates M249). In this instance, not only does the Phantom have surprise, it sports a M249! Ergo: firepower 4.

Also, Phantoms have 5 laser cannons. More than any other ship currently in the game. As to making it 3 attack dice, VI+ACD+Whisper might not care too much, but I feel it would heavily diminish Shadow and Sigma as they tend to only attack every other turn.

I totally concede your point, but i still think its a very high FP for a small ship, espeically one whose engines *should* be powering all that advanced stealth tech, not guns.

Like Red Winter said (being a Red something myself, I can't help but agree with him), the firepower of the Phantom is also an element of surprise. The right thing to do would probably have been to give it firepower 3 and dropping the defender agility by 1, but it would have thread on Wedge ground. Imagine the mass hysteria if a generic Phantom pilot had the same ability than the best pilot of the rebellion, preposterous! So, they gave it Attack 4.

....

What I wonder though, is what if Cloak only gave one more agility instead of two. Maybe Veteran Instinct wouldn't have been the must include it is today, since gaining one more agility is more trivial than 2. And on the other side, maybe people wouldn't be as eager to raise their PS to shoot the Phantom without cloak. The Phantom would still be the arc dodging sniper beast it is today, but when you do corner him, you would have more chance to get rid of it. It would probably open the game to new ways to fly with it. It would also be easy to errata since it doesn't affect any cards except the one with the Cloak action rule. Simple fix, if a fix is really needed in the first place.

I use VI on Dash to help compensate for my lousy piloting skills.

I think the better you are the less you need it, but for myself it is the only way I can keep Dash alive.

Well soon flecette cannons will be an option for stressing the phantom.

As for the fire power question no four dice Isn't broken as mentioned HLC have been around ages and with a target lock the re-roll crits stay, five at range one also isn't alone as we have prockets.

The phantom is strong but far from an auto win button, if it were more lists would be winning instead of Han lists.