So I decided to put my fingers where my mouth is... erm...

Ok I've been moaning about how I'm not a huge fan of the progression in EOTE and how dice pools bloat really quickly and this sort of destroys combat and skill checks..

So I decided to try to fix it.. and here is my attempt:

I was going to write a whole long rant about how I disagree with this level of homebrew, I decided against it. At the point you are spending this much time to redesign something that does not need this level of redesign you already made up your mind and nothing I or anyone can say can convince you otherwise.

I am sad that the FFG was not the one you wanted.

I like the ideas of your modifications for combat. Especially the changes in soak (which I use as you propose), in cover and the new dive maneuver.

I also really don't think the FFG system, where PC survivability is strongly based on soak and number of wounds, recreates properly the Star Wars feeling. At the moment I can live with it.

One thing that you have to pay attention when play testing your changes though, is that combats do not become an endless crossfire where everybody misses his target. They have to be fast, and for players is better that in a round something happens rather than just missing the target all the time. It has to be something where cover and moving around (dive?) is very important, but once you get hit once or twice, you are out (my idea).

I think you are on the good track, but you will have to test it test it test it test it

I am also sorry that you think that FFG is not for me.. it is and yes it is a homebrew, it is .. just soak based combat is not star wars.... Wh40k is totally soak based combat..Star Wars was never about soaking up the damage.. people didn't get hit.. when they did get hit.. they generally fell over.. but I hope I made these views clear in the blog/website/wordpress thing

While I get where you are coming from, some of the changes you've made to things like the talent trees make it clear there's parts of this system that have gone right over your head.

Good luck with your endeavors.

Personally I have always looked at wounds and strain as plot armour. Never had any issues with immersion. Seems like a lot of work but whatever floats your boat.

I am curious how often we'll be seeing this sort of thing. It seems like not long ago someone else tried rewriting the rules, interestingly it seems in quite the opposite direction.

Personally I have always looked at wounds and strain as plot armour.

Hi!

Do you care to explain what this means?

Personally I have always looked at wounds and strain as plot armour.

Hi!

Do you care to explain what this means?

As in non-tangible "damage" and stress ala FATE. The character doesn't have a broken limb, but instead is closer to injury and death because the plot is advanced more towards that end.

It is fairly esoteric, but it might be better thought of as bumps, scratches and bruises as seen in action movies. It is easier to justify if the player is wearing armor.

Personally I have always looked at wounds and strain as plot armour. Never had any issues with immersion. Seems like a lot of work but whatever floats your boat.

It is plot armor. Which is why combat stimulants remove damage to it. When you run out of it you take a real hit(crit) and fall over.

Every time I see someone have a problem with soak and damage in this system it seems to be them thinking wounds are actual damage. They aren't. And all one has to do is look at what it takes to heal wounds. And what it takes to heal crits. Crits behave like real damage and wounds behave like physical stress that a red bull or other stimulant helps you push past.

I kind of see stimpacks as a stimulant/painkillers. They don't heal you. They help deal with combat stresses.

I kind of see stimpacks as a stimulant/painkillers. They don't heal you. They help deal with combat stresses.

If you read the description of what is in a stimpack I would disagree. Also the fact that there is such thing as combat stress ... called strain.

Personally I have always looked at wounds and strain as plot armour.

Hi!

Do you care to explain what this means?

You don't have to think of a character's wound count as literally the number of wounds they have taken to their physical body.

It could just represent the wear and tear on them that the battle is causing. This could be physical wounds but it could also just mean they're getting more and more worn out by the fight.

The shot that pushes a character over their wound threshold is the shot that takes them out.

It's the same mindset where you think of a single Attack check as possibly a volley of blaster shots, with characters ducking in and out of cover, rather than one single Attack check meaning literally one pull of the trigger.

In most light-hearted adventure stories, characters don't stand there and absorb multiple shots from ranged weapons or multiple stabs of a knife, counting up to the number of shots that they can suffer before they collapse or die.

You don't have to think of a character's wound count as literally the number of wounds they have taken to their physical body.

... it could also just mean they're getting more and more worn out by the fight.

Except what you are describing there... is literally the definition of strain in this game.

I like to think of it this way, there are 3 levels of damage.

Wounds = temporary damage.

Criticals = Long Term damage,

Strain = Emotional damage.

Funny enough my view is pretty much RAW.

Edit: to add more of an explanation

You don't have to think of a character's wound count as literally the number of wounds they have taken to their physical body.

... it could also just mean they're getting more and more worn out by the fight.

Except what you are describing there... is literally the definition of strain in this game.

I like to think of it this way, there are 3 levels of damage.

Wounds = temporary damage.

Criticals = Long Term damage,

Strain = Emotional damage.

Funny enough my view is pretty much RAW.

Edit: to add more of an explanation

Agreed, but he is looking at it from the point of view of the movies or other visual media. You don't see the main characters taking many hits, and when they do it often results in injury.

The assumption is that the plot works to keep the main characters alive and healthy, but as a game it needs more of a mechanic. Hence his term of plot armor.

fatedtodie, this is a pretty simple concept that's very common in roleplaying games.

You're welcome to use this interpretation or not in your own games, but this is not really something 'arguable'.

Sure, technically the game does have 'strain' and 'wounds', and you can perceive those as literally as you'd like. Personally the way I described works well for me in my games.

For a simple concept there seems to be a lot of disagreement on it.

For a simple concept there seems to be a lot of disagreement on it.

I'm not trying to win an argument with you about it, or 'convert' you to viewing wounds in roleplaying games as more metaphorical than literal.

I understand what I mean, and for me that's really the bottom line. It's not a super-important concept that's going to break your game if you and someone else understand it differently.

However, the idea that your number of wounds doesn't necessarily represent a literal number of wounds on your body isn't something I personally made up, it's just one way that you can view wounds in roleplaying games.

FangGrip and Daeglan both described what I was talking about in their own ways, and I pretty much agreed with what they said. Again, I don't think anyone is telling you that however YOU view it is wrong. We're just describing the approach we might take in a game.

My only thought is that by taking survivability from soak and moving it to the dice you may end up with more dead PCs. The dice are swingy enough that they can't be counted on in the same way that soak can.

If that's the flavor you want, though, then cool.

My problem with the plot armour concept is that wookies and other high brawn races seem to have not just lots more plot armour than anyone else, they last longer as well

Brawn not only grants wound threshold but also soak... It's a double dip, win win

It is possible for someone to unload a blaster pistol into the chest of a woodie and that wookie stand there ignoring them .. Playing with his yo yo (exaggerated? Me? No!)

I'm intrigued Ghostofman, in what way 'over my head'?

Doc, the weasel.. Yes dice are swingy hence me using parry and duck talents

It is possible for someone to unload a blaster pistol into the chest of a woodie and that wookie stand there ignoring them .. Playing with his yo yo (exaggerated? Me? No!)

Grife... Most games that quantify "hit points" have this problem. And as for any such game, this is when the GM steps in and either hand-waves the coup de grace; or, if a player insists on a roll being made, grants a pile of boost dice and Pierce and Vicious 5. The Wookiee can then enjoy the critical...

It is possible for someone to unload a blaster pistol into the chest of a woodie and that wookie stand there ignoring them .. Playing with his yo yo (exaggerated? Me? No!)

Grife... Most games that quantify "hit points" have this problem. And as for any such game, this is when the GM steps in and either hand-waves the coup de grace; or, if a player insists on a roll being made, grants a pile of boost dice and Pierce and Vicious 5. The Wookiee can then enjoy the critical...

I'm reminded of the Paladium system wherein one of the RIFTS supplements they added a special critical table to keep this from happening. In the description they spoke of complaints that players were shooting themselves in the head to show how tough they were (2d6 damage vs my 90+ SDC/HP? No worries).

Sometimes people cling a little too closely to the rules.

It is possible for someone to unload a blaster pistol into the chest of a woodie and that wookie stand there ignoring them .. Playing with his yo yo (exaggerated? Me? No!)

Yeah, one of the brief soliloquies that I’ve worked up for Chewnawa (my Wookiee Marauder/Heavy/Doctor/FSEx) goes something like this — after translation into Basic by his chest-mounted Tranlang V Holotranslator, of course:

Go head.

Shoot me.

Piss me off.

Let’s see what I do to your remains after I rip you limb-from-limb.

If you had put Chewnawa in the Cantina scene where Ponda Baba pulls a blaster on Luke and Obiwan proceeds to slice off Ponda’s arm, my Wookiee would have been considerably more … violent. Especially if Ponda had fired and landed a shot on him.

There are definitely ways in which Soak and Wound Threshold can be misused and abused.

That said, I like the idea that WT represents nicks and scrapes and minor injuries that can potentially be relatively easily healed or stimpacked.

I like the idea that ST represents mental or emotional damage.

I like the idea that crits represent more serious damage that takes some actual medical skill to fix.

I like the idea of being able to narrate what happens to someone when they exceed their WT or ST, and in the case of minions or even rivals, maybe that means they’re dead and maybe they’re just taken out of the fight.

Personally, I don’t see a great deal in this area that needs to be fixed. IMO, there are much worse problems elsewhere that need a lot more attention.

If I may - consider Die Hard. Over the course of the movie John McClain gets nicks and sprains and glass in his feet, burns and abrasions left and right - but nothing truly substantial. That nickel and dimeing of our hero over the course of an hour and a half is his wounds. Lots of bullets in his direction, but very little actual damage.

Perhaps not narrate the blaster as hitting them in the chest and ignoring it,