Fighter Pilot info and speculation

By GAThraawn, in Star Wars: Armada

Just thought I'd compile some info we have from previous previews, that I haven't seen anybody post yet; I think a lot can be learned about many of the pilots in the expansion packs with a little deduction. This all comes from the "Expand your Fleet" preview images:

Unique TIE pilot "Mau[ler Mithel"]

After you move, ea[ch squadron adjacent to?]

you suffers 1 dam[age.]

Brace, (Scatter?)

Unique TIE advanced pilot "Dar[th Vader"]

While attacking, e[ach (critical?) you roll deals?]

1 damage to the d[efender?]

Brace, (Brace?)

Unique TIE Interceptor pilot "Soo[ntir Fel"]

After a squadron you [(activate?) (at distance 1?)]

performs a non-Counter [attack, it deals 1?]

damage if it did not [(roll any hits?)]

Brace, Scatter

Unique TIE Bomber pilot "Major Rhymer"

Friendly squadrons at distance 1 can attack

enemy ships at close-medium range using all

dice in their battery armament.

Brace, Brace

Unique X-Wing pilot "Wed[ge Antillies"]

While attacking a [(squadron at range 1, you?)]

may add 2 blue d[ice to your attack pool.]

Brace, (Brace?)

Unique Y-Wing pilot "'Dut[ch' Vander"]

When a squadron [?]

damage, you may [?]

the activated side. [?]

suffers 1 additional [damage.]

Brace, Brace

Unique A-Wing pilot "Tycho [Celchu"]

You can move out of [engagement and]

attack ships even [while engaged.]

Brace, (Scatter?)

Unique B-Wing pilot "Keyan Farlander"

While attacking a ship, if the defending hull

zone has no shields, you may reroll any

number of dice in your attack pool.

Brace, Brace

I've tried to be as faithful as possible with my transcription, filling in what seem obvious gaps in the square brackets, taking educated guesses with ? and (). The Rebel pilots have only one Scatter token among them, while the Imperials have 2 (And we can clearly see Fel has 1 Brace token). I have some guesses as to what Dutch Vander could say, but they all seem nuts; I get the impression he can activate a squadron he hits, and/or deal extra damage to them, but making a squadron take an extra hit and skip a turn seems too strong unless there's a drawback or he costs a bunch of points.

Vader obviously has some mechanic for dealing extra damage, as is fitting; it could be something other than rolling criticals that triggers it.

Fel doesn't say "friendly squadron"; he also deals extra damage to somebody for something, he could deal damage to enemy squadrons who attack him but miss?

Wedge obviously gets 2 bonus blue dice for attacking something; squadrons makes far more sense than ships, although he certainly has taken on more than his fair share of those too.

Tycho, Mauler, Keyan and Rhymer I'm all pretty confident about; if I'm right, Mauler Mithel seems like a neat way to deal an extra point or two of damage over a game, as moving adjacent to one or more enemy fighters when moving into engagement shouldn't be too hard, and lines right up with his preference for close combat from X-Wing.

Unless Vader is very cheap I can't see him doing enough damage compared to a buffed tie fighter (or even a generic advanced, per point) to be worth taking, if that's what his text reads.

I was really hoping it would be about dealing 1 damage to enemys that attack him, so he could really get use out of the escort rule, but I can't figure out how to fit that into the text.

Do we know what facings the blue dice have yet? They have 2 crits, but do they have 4 hits and 2 acc, or 3 hits and 3 acc?

The dice faces, lifted from another thread here, are:

Red: 2 Blank, 1 Accuracy, 2 Critical, 2 Hit, 1 Double Hit

Blue: 2 Accuracy, 2 Critical, 4 Hit

Black: 2 Blank, 2 Critical, 2 Hit, 2 Hit+Critical

Criticals don't normally count as successes against squadrons, so if I guess Vader right, that would up his average damage output up from 50% per die to 75% per die; if TIE advanced roll 3 Blue, he would have an average damage of 2.25 versus a regular Advanced 1.5, which plus 2 Brace tokens could easily be worth a few extra points. It's also conceivable he might roll a Black die in his anti-squadron dice, which would mean he would average 2.5 damage per attack. At the very least, it certainly fits his character.

EDIT: If they wanted to go really crazy, and make him worth the large number of points they might want to charge for Lord Vader, they could give him multiple Black dice in his attack pool. Rolling Black dice against squadrons is typically worse, since there's no accuracy and the criticals don't count for anything, but if Vader got to use them, he could be literally doubling the damage output of a regular Advance, albeit for perhaps more points than you might want to sink into a single squadron.

Edited by GAThraawn

I guess we will know in a week or two when we get the squadron article :)

Unless Vader is very cheap I can't see him doing enough damage compared to a buffed tie fighter (or even a generic advanced, per point) to be worth taking, if that's what his text reads.

I was really hoping it would be about dealing 1 damage to enemys that attack him, so he could really get use out of the escort rule, but I can't figure out how to fit that into the text.

Do we know what facings the blue dice have yet? They have 2 crits, but do they have 4 hits and 2 acc, or 3 hits and 3 acc?

I wouldn't say that so easily. Crits rolled by fighters are discarded, whether it is firing at capitals or other fighters. The Bomber rule allows you to count crits, but only against capital ships (against which you roll less dice as well) but where fighter to fighter combat is concerned, crits are essentially blanks.

Vader's special rule -assuming we're guessing correctly- turns all crits from blanks to hits, no matter what he's shooting at. Anti-fighter dice on fighters can be anywhere between 2 to 4 dice. Turning 2 blanks into hits when rolling that much dice? That's a pretty huge deal, and turns Vader into a wrecking ball that is probably going to be focus fired on sight.

Edited by keroko

An extra tie fighter costs just 8 points, and with swarm and Howlrunner it will get an average of 2.25 hits and is incredibly cost efficient per point (~182% of the x-wing's anti squadron firepower per point). An Interceptor will persumably have 4 dice base and thus average 2.75 hits under the same conditions.

Vader with that rule and 3 blue's would average 2.25 hits(the same as the Tie fighter), 3 hits with all black dice, or 4 hits with 4 black dice. If a generic advanced is just 10 points and Vader is 15-16 (Howlrunner is 16, Luke is 20, Keyan is 29) then even with 4 black dice he will under perform generic Tie fighters. Furthermore, getting single large anti-squadron attacks is inefficient given named squadrons have scatter and brace tokens, and the possibility of overkilling and wasting damage. Vader will have to be pretty cheap to justify him, and that means he might find his way into every list. :lol:

What about this possible reconstruction of Dutch:

Unique Y-Wing pilot "'Dut[ch' Vander"]

When a squadron [that you attack suffers]

damage, you may [flip 1 defense token to]

the activated side. [if you do, that squadron]

suffers 1 additional [damage.]

Brace, Brace

Basically, this version of Dutch could trade defense for big boosts of automatic offense.

What about this possible reconstruction of Dutch:

Unique Y-Wing pilot "'Dut[ch' Vander"]

When a squadron [that you attack suffers]

damage, you may [flip 1 defense token to]

the activated side. [if you do, that squadron]

suffers 1 additional [damage.]

Brace, Brace

Basically, this version of Dutch could trade defense for big boosts of automatic offense.

What about denying the enemy squadron a move/attack by moving the tab to the activated side? The activate mechanic screams for something to toggle enemy squadrons before they can be used. Think of it like using ion weapons against them.

then even with 4 black dice he will under perform generic Tie fighters

No, he will perform the same as generic ties when they are supported by other ties and a named pilot. In contrast Vader has all that damage on his model while being alone while also having two more hit points, tokens, and the escort rule. This is especially important because the Advanced is the only Imperial fighter to have escort. He has a very different role than a tie swarm.

Never mind how this gets into the nature of chance and how Vader will be significantly less likely to roll all blanks on his attack dice compared to other fighters, assuming the above is accurate.

Edited by DarkArk

I was being extremely generous assuming Vader would have 4 black dice and only cost 15-16 points. That was basically taking his potential stats to a ludicrous level to show what it would take.

Most likely Vader is the foil to the rebel's Wedge. Wedge's text gives him 2 extra blue dice, a 50% increase, while Vader's text would boost existing blue dice by 50%.

The role the advanced and its escort rule seems to play for the Imperials is different than the rebel's X-wing. With a probable 3 blue dice and no swarm rule it will have weak anti-squadron firepower. As it lacks "bomber" it will also have poor anti-ship firepower. This means it will not have the firepower to help tie bombers break through a screen, nor will it be able to help with the bombing after breaking through. However, with 5hp and a low cost due to the weak firepower, it will have the game's highest hp per point allowing it to "tank" MMO style for the high damage, but flimsy, Ties using the escort rule.

Vader's tokens would make him beefier, but having his point cost go towards an offensive boost on a defensive ship that's outclassed by two other squadrons seems like a waste. However, if the text he and Wedge have is deemed cheap and the two end up as ~12-13 and ~16-17 points respectively it would be very nice. They would be beefy and soak damage with escort, while not losing relative firepower at their higher point cost.

What about this possible reconstruction of Dutch:

Unique Y-Wing pilot "'Dut[ch' Vander"]

When a squadron [that you attack suffers]

damage, you may [flip 1 defense token to]

the activated side. [if you do, that squadron]

suffers 1 additional [damage.]

Brace, Brace

Basically, this version of Dutch could trade defense for big boosts of automatic offense.

What about denying the enemy squadron a move/attack by moving the tab to the activated side? The activate mechanic screams for something to toggle enemy squadrons before they can be used. Think of it like using ion weapons against them.

This is a brilliant idea. So, it would look something like this:

Unique Y-Wing pilot "'Dut[ch' Vander"]

When a squadron [that you attack suffers]

damage, you may [toggle its tab to]

the activated side. [if already activated, it]

suffers 1 additional [damage.]

Brace, Brace

You can either preemptively strike enemy squadrons, preventing them from attacking you, or you can get bonus damage in retaliation.

This is a brilliant idea. So, it would look something like this:

Unique Y-Wing pilot "'Dut[ch' Vander"]

When a squadron [that you attack suffers]

damage, you may [toggle its tab to]

the activated side. [if already activated, it]

suffers 1 additional [damage.]

Brace, Brace

You can either preemptively strike enemy squadrons, preventing them from attacking you, or you can get bonus damage in retaliation.

The text fits perfectly, and the bonus damage mirrors how the ion cannon upgrade gives bonus damage if the main effect is invalid.

Solid work.

Man, that would be cool if Y-wings/ion cannon carriers had a default ability that allowed them to activate enemy squadrons if they attacked them first. It would fit nice and give the heavies some oomf.

Man, that would be cool if Y-wings/ion cannon carriers had a default ability that allowed them to activate enemy squadrons if they attacked them first. It would fit nice and give the heavies some oomf.

A really, really powerful oomf that'd let you take specific fighters (say... all named characters?) out of engagements virtually indefinitely.

Man, that would be cool if Y-wings/ion cannon carriers had a default ability that allowed them to activate enemy squadrons if they attacked them first. It would fit nice and give the heavies some oomf.

A really, really powerful oomf that'd let you take specific fighters (say... all named characters?) out of engagements virtually indefinitely.

Except for Pilots with Disperse (or w/e it is that lets them negate all damage from an attack), as they can avoid the effect, but at the cost of using the token to cancel maybe 2 damage instead of the 4 they'd want to use it on.

I know, I know. I'm just talking off the cuff.

I'm still waiting to see obviously but I think their ruling that you can activate any squadrons you want, taking turns with each other, will prove fascinating. Activate first and get your ship where you want but also broadcast exactly where you'll be. It will really give the fighter aspect of the game a fluidity nicely paired with the yawning behomeths on the board.

I think the argument against Vader is a little unfair; most of your objections to the TIE advanced's performance hold true against the generic TIE advanced as well: I can see the benefit to having a few tanks to escort your fragile fighter swarm, and adding two Brace tokens to your tank shouldn't be underestimated. Also upgrading him with greater firepower can only increase his efficacy: I don't think any unit in this game can be really discussed until we know its point value, it should be obvious that any unit can be overpowered at a low point cost and underpowered at a high one.

I like both guesses at Dutch Vander. Given his death, sacrificing defence for offence seems reasonable, and representing ion cannons is also cool, and clearly the purview of unique units.

Question: How are starfighters deployed at the beginning of the game? Must they start out deployed? Do they have to be within range 1 of a ship? Even hyperdrive equipped fighters?