It's almost my birthday, and as I love descent and people have asked me what they should get me, I was wondering which H+M pack is best in terms of having interesting mechanics while still being effective? I currently have the base game, Shadow of Nerekhall, Crusade of the Forgotten, and Manor of Ravens. Are there any that stand out, or is it up to personal preference?

For around the price of a heroes and monster pack, you can add on Trollfens, which is way better than any heroes and monster pack. Comes with 2 fun classes, some great monsters, and a bunch of other additional content.

I agree with Whitewing. If mechanics is what you value (I am one of those people as well) you are better off with a small box than a monster pack.

Thanks for the replies! Whitewhing, can I ask why you'd recommend Trollfens over Lair of the Wyrm? It seemed to me that the monsters and heroes were better in LotW, although the Punisher class looked inferior to Infector.

I'd get that too in the long run, but the Trollfens was a better quality expansion. The quests were better, the overlord cards were better, items were more interesting, etc.

I just prefer it. Lair of the Wyrm is good too, but the quests aren't quite as good.

but hybrids sentinels from the LotW are way better

Eh, I don't really agree. They're good, sure, but generally I want more utility out of a monster group that comes with only 3 monsters. Plague worms have more utility than Hybrid Sentinels. If i want damage output from a monster group, there are many better options than Hybrid Sentinels, and they don't really have any utility that makes me want to use them. Fly is nice, but burrow accomplishes pretty much the same thing, and if i want flying damage dealers, I usually bring in harpies or something else. They're durable, but since they're small monsters the durability doesn't come into play much, since I don't usually let my monsters get attacked without significant effort anyway.

Hybrid Sentinels are great, yes. But both Harpies and Plague Worms are great, as well. Fire Imps are kinda meh. I like the quests for Lair of the Wyrm, but I do have to say the Trollfens as a whole was more fun to play, and I the Stalker and Prophet classes are pretty popular in my group.

Well to each his/her own, but I find a bit amusing to find that sort of criticism on such a great monster as the hybrid sentinel. Monster durability is a huge deal in nearly every quest I play. I do let them get attacked by the heroes. Because it makes them waste actions on them. The sentinel is a hard hitter in melee and heroes know they cannot one-shot them.

Flying is also utility. It's all about positioning your monsters where you want them to be, as most of us know. You can use sentinels as a wall of tough guys in a corridor, flying over heroes to get there. You can use them to carry objective tokens (good luck getting back these), with Raythen you can steal search tokens that are virtually unsearchable unless heroes throw everything they´ve got into killing the sentinel etc. I call this utility too, since it disrupts the plans of my heroes.

As an answer to the OP, I found that Oath of the Outcast had the best heroes by a fair shot (Trenloe, Mok, Laurel, Shiver) but also the worst monsters on average. The three other expansions had ok monsters. I don't use Giants much and both Lava Beetles and Chaos Beasts are situational, but I liked Crown of Destiny the most from a OL perspective. Chaos Beasts and Lava Beetle can be really nasty and I wanted that card up my sleeve rather than another generic monster. I guess getting Lindel is also a huge asset from the heroes perspective. Then the latest H&M pack Guardians of Deephall has really good monsters, but I am yet to have played enough quests with them to give a good review. I think monsters in that pack are better overall than any of the other packs if the heroes are weak on willpower. Wendigoes seem good though and I can think of using them regardless. Crusade of the Forgotten had Golems and Medusae and these have tons of use for the OL regardless of hero composition. A bit less flavorful, though, at least I found.

We haven't tested the heroes from the latest two packs so I´ll let the others comment on that. I guess Silhouette from Guardians of Deephall is a sucker for cheaty treasure hunting.

Quest-wise (rumor) I think all packs are pretty even.

You'll note I said that hybrid sentinels are good monsters, just that I generally don't use them because they're an all around good monster but not as well suited to any one task as other monsters are, and I usually choose monsters that excel at the role I intend for them.

They're durable and have fly, but you only get 3 and they don't have a spectacular speed, merely a good one. If I need monsters to take hits, I'd prefer something more durable than the sentinels, that takes up more room and blocks better or comes in larger numbers.

They're a great middle of the road monster, and are easy and safe to use well, but I find that I rarely have use for them.

I normally have the following rule in mind and it has rarely let me down:

When in doubt... better call Saul Hybrid Sentinels

I agree that if there is a monster that wonderfully serves the particular purpose of the encounter we´re about to play, then I would pick it with no hesitation. But sometimes encounters are a bit blend, or you don't get what you want because of traits or "no large monsters" rules, so general tough/mobile/in-da-face monsters can be an approach - especially if you have OL cards to back them up. It doesn't give the instant edge of having the proper tool for the job, but it ensures you can pull out a fight and make the heroes struggle (... switching focus to killing these instead)

It doesn't give the instant edge of having the proper tool for the job, but it ensures you can pull out a fight and make the heroes struggle (... switching focus to killing these instead)

As an OL, I have found that one of the best ways to win (some) quests is to dangle a monster group in front of the heroes. "Oh, no- threatening looking monsters! You'd really better take care of them before they attack you, or perhaps survive and tell the other monsters that you're just a bunch of babies!"

Hybrid Sentinels have a reputation for hurting the heroes. Whenever I put them in play, I invariably find that my heroes just can't seem to ignore them- and to me, that makes them very useful.

To that end, "corrupt civilian" cards in the Nerekhall campaign are magnificent- they're like a sign I can affix to my master changeling that screams, "Stop what you're doing and kill me, kill me NOW!"

Win by fear, that's what I did on "What's yours is mine". The heroes kept attacking Sentinels, being afraid of Fire Breath, and then, my Ettin could fly through them (some Emergency Rations and Secret of Flesh helped, aswell).

I forgot to mention that the OL reward for Oath of the Outcast is a huge deal. "Unseen Wings" allows you to move three monsters of the same group three spaces. It's really nice.

If speaking only on heroes and monster boxes, I, personnaly, would say that only Vision of Dawn , the next box to come, is the only one to have a special interrest, since it's the only one that offers (for now) a non-human non-orc hero : Ispher (and a real cool one if you ask me)

... and the first ranged attack monster with Ravage

and only one so far

Technically not true, since lieutenants count as monsters, and Tristayne Olliven has Ravage.

Lieutenants cannot be choosen as monsters. Agent may, but not as freely

Lieutenants cannot be choosen as monsters. Agent may, but not as freely

Very true- they're the first potential open monster group with range and ravage. However, Whitewing was technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

Haha that's true.

If speaking only on heroes and monster boxes, I, personnaly, would say that only Vision of Dawn , the next box to come, is the only one to have a special interrest, since it's the only one that offers (for now) a non-human non-orc hero : Ispher (and a real cool one if you ask me)

I love Ispher as well and can't wait to pick up Visions of Dawn. Finally some love for the exotic races! Now where are Steelhorns, Karnon, Varikas and Maliki the Claw?

In terms of best heroes and monster pack for raw useability, I largely agree with Indalecio. Oath of the Outcast has two of the most powerful heroes in the entire game (Mok and Trenloe), but mostly bad monsters. I do like Razorwings, and they are in fact in my top 10 monsters, but I only use them for very specific kinds of quests. They may never even come up in an entire campaign.

Bane Spiders and Beastmen are both pretty lousy and I would never use them as open monster groups... Ditto for Wendigos really.. Melee Ravage without a Skirmish or Leap Attack or something is just epic fail without a ton of setup or foolish heroes!

Crusade of the Forgotten offers the best monsters for sure. Sorcerers are one of my favorite groups of all, and Golems and Medusae are strong situational choices. The heroes also gain access to Andira Runehand, whom I'm starting to think might be the second most powerful healer of them all (beneath the godly Elder Mok, of course). A solid pack all around.

Beastman are really usefull only for the master and can be of some use with the card that comes with the box (the one that allow to move up to 3 monsters to 3 spaces) so they could attack twice

But, personnaly, in our group, we have changed the "ravage" of beastmen by "bloody rage : Whenever this monster deals at least 1 heart to a hero during an attack, this monster may immediatly attack that hero again. This attack has -1 heart. Limited to once per activation".

Sounds more logical (and usefull) to me

That sounds infinitely better than what they have, and would make me actually want to use the Beastmen for once! Has good Synergy with the Command ability too.