SHOTS FIRED! Im here for the amusement of the comments

If only the "concerned" citizens (read: players) with meta concerns would not go so far overboard as they inevitably always do.

Isn't this board for discussing X wing? Isn't discussing meta concerns discussing X wing? I don't agree with all of their complaints but surely they have a right to voice them?

Can we, as the internet, please, please, agree that criticism is not censorship, ever.

The game isn't sold out. There's still a ton of HWKs for sale.

What sucks about X-Wing is that we can't get more in stock. We only have Starters, HWks, Lambdas, Imp Aces, Transports, Phantoms, 95s, Es, Outriders and Decimators.

The good thing is you don't need a terrifying large amount of the game to build a good/fair squad.

I love the game personally.

Based on the barrage of negative topics posted here every week; why do some people seem to want it to die?

It sells consistently at every outlet worth patronizing. Stock levels are zooming and seem to be more out than in most of the time.

Sold out and selling out games do not suck.

I am suspecting that many people play at home far from bizarre gamers and the meta yammering. These folks do not bother coming to game forums to post either. Why should they after all? They got everything needed to play already and are having fun at home in a pleasant environment which they control.

Wanna go out this weekend Joe?

Hel-Nah!

I might be getting grumpy in my wising maturity... kinda like Han Solo.

Ponder...?!

Well this is a phenomenon since the very existence of internet and any other platform (like magazines or newspapers) that provide input from customers/users...

The negative is always the loudest voice.

The same is happening here...

People here are more likely to complain and whine, maybe also in the hope to get heard by FFG.

For whatever reason even hope that it will change anything...

And FFG sucks at suppling the market... sorry guys... (i hope S&V ship sunk and we skip that wave )

Mostly now a days, im only looking for my friday posts from Cubanboy and stay out of here for most of the time. oO

The game isn't sold out. There's still a ton of HWKs for sale.

HWKs are sold out on miniaturemarket

I love the game personally.

Based on the barrage of negative topics posted here every week; why do some people seem to want it to die?

It sells consistently at every outlet worth patronizing. Stock levels are zooming and seem to be more out than in most of the time.

Sold out and selling out games do not suck.

I am suspecting that many people play at home far from bizarre gamers and the meta yammering. These folks do not bother coming to game forums to post either. Why should they after all? They got everything needed to play already and are having fun at home in a pleasant environment which they control.

Wanna go out this weekend Joe?

Hel-Nah!

I might be getting grumpy in my wising maturity... kinda like Han Solo.

Ponder...?!

Well this is a phenomenon since the very existence of internet and any other platform (like magazines or newspapers) that provide input from customers/users...

The negative is always the loudest voice.

The same is happening here...

People here are more likely to complain and whine, maybe also in the hope to get heard by FFG.

For whatever reason even hope that it will change anything...

And FFG sucks at suppling the market... sorry guys... (i hope S&V ship sunk and we skip that wave )

Mostly now a days, im only looking for my friday posts from Cubanboy and stay out of here for most of the time. oO

And we can do something about it here. Ignore negative postings and support positive threads.

It is easier said than done of course but I remember when this was a genuinely FUN place to be. It should be a fun place, and not an argument hole scaring off the nice passers by... that keep right on going.

All of the complaints about FatHAN and other such fuss that we see every week is just too common here to be a good thing. Is any of it helping at this point... at all?

It might be helpfull to complain and get things of your chest.

To be fair my first post on these forums was a complaint about FFG making the XCOM game have a mandatory app.

(Well not really a complaint more a hopless atempt to make FFG reconsider.- It didn't work.)

Why would you possibly not want that game to have its app? That's kind of the whole point of the game, and the part that makes it better than other co-op games.

I tought the whole point of a boardgame was to be a boardgame. So now i'm playing the boardgame of a videogame with a tablet...what? why not just play Xcom instead?

I'm not against the app, i just wish it wasn't mandatory and you could play the game without it.

The problem is any serious discussion will get derailed by skyfallers.

You know, it might be worth having someone level-headed and fairly unbiased like Juggler set up some "unofficial" forum rules on things like skyfalling and hyperbolic posting.

Too bad there won't be anyone actually enforcing those unofficial rules. Otherwise, I'd be all for it.

There's not that much enforcing the official ones either: there's no moderator presence. A thread has to go very severely down the drain before FFG's forum mods react, and that's usually by locking it. As for bans, Ribann's the only one I can think of.

Most of the following of forum rules is done by a bit of self-policing and out of respect.

respect is good.

The problem is any serious discussion will get derailed by skyfallers.

You know, it might be worth having someone level-headed and fairly unbiased like Juggler set up some "unofficial" forum rules on things like skyfalling and hyperbolic posting.

Too bad there won't be anyone actually enforcing those unofficial rules. Otherwise, I'd be all for it.

There's not that much enforcing the official ones either: there's no moderator presence. A thread has to go very severely down the drain before FFG's forum mods react, and that's usually by locking it. As for bans, Ribann's the only one I can think of.

Most of the following of forum rules is done by a bit of self-policing and out of respect.

So you equate having a criticism of the game (skyfaller is it?) as somehow being disrespectful or in violation of forum rules. Oh my. Let's just say that if FFG ever makes the tragic mistake of appointing moderators from the community, I sincerely hope they don't consider you.

X wing dosn't suck. The current xwing tournament meta game sucks. There's a major difference between between the two. However as soon as scum and Villanys drops we will see a substantial shift in the meta as turret ships suddenly become substantially less efficient, leading to the return of super maneuverable ships like the TIE/Interceptor and we will eventually see a return to a more diverse build state as the fear of the phantom has waned and with the realization that fat turrets are way more vulnerable to non specialized builds (aggressor bc). So understand which question you should be asking.

No he equates the extreme level of hyperbole (on both sides) that some players resort to as problematic.

You've illustrated his point fairly well in that you took his point, exaggerated it to the Nth degree, seemingly purposefully ignored parts of it, and acted as if that is what he said.

No he equates the extreme level of hyperbole (on both sides) that some players resort to as problematic.

You've illustrated his point fairly well in that you took his point, exaggerated it to the Nth degree, seemingly purposefully ignored parts of it, and acted as if that is what he said.

No sir, I fully quoted the entire conversation with nothing out of context. Hyperbole is neither problematic nor against any forum rules I've ever seen. But thank you pot, for calling me black.

True, you quoted the conversation entirely, but in doing so overinflated your response by equating skyfallers with any and all constructive criticism and discussion. The original post did not suggest that they are the same thing.

Discussion and criticism is good so long as it serves a productive purpose. Flat out disagreeing or criticising because you don't like the way something turns out and then claiming that the whole x-wing experience is ruined as a result (skyfallers) is a common theme among many arguments at the moment. All too often threads with good points degenerate into entirely polarized arguments specifically because of this. So the original point still stands.

Criticising someone for highlighting a problem with hyperbole whilst intentionally using hyperbole to escalate your response and insult that person is either hypocrisy or trolling. True it might not be against the rules, nor is farting in public; but neither do anything positive for the atmosphere in an enclosed space.

Hyperbole not problematic? Sure when it's not to be taken litterally. But on an Internet forum where tone is masked and many exaggerated claims are meant to be taken at face value; hyperbole is absolutely an issue. On both sides.

That you quoted his entire post doesn't excuse you heavily exaggerating and misrepresenting his position. It just makes it seem like you didn't actually read the post you are quoting in a purposeful manner.

True, you quoted the conversation entirely, but in doing so overinflated your response by equating skyfallers with any and all constructive criticism and discussion. The original post did not suggest that they are the same thing.

Discussion and criticism is good so long as it serves a productive purpose. Flat out disagreeing or criticising because you don't like the way something turns out and then claiming that the whole x-wing experience is ruined as a result (skyfallers) is a common theme among many arguments at the moment. All too often threads with good points degenerate into entirely polarized arguments specifically because of this. So the original point still stands.

Criticising someone for highlighting a problem with hyperbole whilst intentionally using hyperbole to escalate your response and insult that person is either hypocrisy or trolling. True it might not be against the rules, nor is farting in public; but neither do anything positive for the atmosphere in an enclosed space.

You make so many excellent points, love your second paragraph, in fact. My issue of course is that I don't think any member(s) of the community should be determining what falls into constructive criticism vs. skyfalling and moderating those threads. Someone who thinks that is a good idea would be a poor choice for a moderator in my opinion. Is that really such a terrible concept.

As long as no actual forum rules (threats of violence, etc.) are broken, people should be able to post whatever they wish. If you think it's hyperbole, address it as such or simply ignore the post altogether.

Hyperbole not problematic? Sure when it's not to be taken litterally. But on an Internet forum where tone is masked and many exaggerated claims are meant to be taken at face value; hyperbole is absolutely an issue. On both sides.

That you quoted his entire post doesn't excuse you heavily exaggerating and misrepresenting his position. It just makes it seem like you didn't actually read the post you are quoting in a purposeful manner.

How is hyperbole an issue? How is it hurting anything? Do you seriously think Alex Davy is going to read a hyperbolic post and be like "Oh no! We have to take it back to formula! Scrap wave 7!!!"?

To your second part, I have not misrepresented his position. In his own words, he would like someone to draft up some rules about hyperbolic posting and have them applied to the forum. That's not an exaggeration it's a fact that I gleaned from reading his ENTIRE post.

I stand by my statement that those are precisely the ideas of someone I would not want moderating this forum. See, now I think you are exaggerating about me. Would you like it if I had moderator privileges and locked your post based on that opinion?

Of course not, and neither would I.

X-Wingers and Professional Gamers (YOW!) should be segregated.

Hyperbole is a problem because it derails discussion, which is the entire point of the forums.

When people are attempting to discuss ways in which say an A-wing swarm can deal with Phantom and someone comes in and says something along the lines of "None of this will work. The Phantom will never get shot at or blocked unless the player just does something stupid". Clearly this is a exaggeration of some underlying point, but whatever could have been discussed is lost in the grandstanding. More over the hyperbole is often trending towards much more inflammatory then what I stated. And it certainly cuts both ways.

So when hyperbole becomes the way in which people derail threads or attack other posters then it is absolutely a forum problem. Those actions by any other name are trolling, and hyperbole is how some accomplish that.

Hyperbole is a problem because it derails discussion, which is the entire point of the forums.

When people are attempting to discuss ways in which say an A-wing swarm can deal with Phantom and someone comes in and says something along the lines of "None of this will work. The Phantom will never get shot at or blocked unless the player just does something stupid". Clearly this is a exaggeration of some underlying point, but whatever could have been discussed is lost in the grandstanding. More over the hyperbole is often trending towards much more inflammatory then what I stated. And it certainly cuts both ways.

So when hyperbole becomes the way in which people derail threads or attack other posters then it is absolutely a forum problem. Those actions by any other name are trolling, and hyperbole is how some accomplish that.

Hyperbole starts discussion. Seriously. You are much more likely to click and reply to a thread that gets your hackles up than one that says "everything is awesome!!!"

Also, why are you giving yourself and everyone else so little credit? Do you honestly mean to tell me if someone comes into your strategic thread and "grandstands", you lose any coherent thought? You honestly think that everyone who was thinking about utilizing EPT's and refits suddenly says "Oh, well it's all over now". I'm skeptical.

Let me see if I can put this more succinctly for you. This is an expensive game. If someone that just dropped $800 wants to come in and have a good moan about Phantoms, so what? Who are you or I to de-legitimize their arguments as simple hyperbole or trolling? It certainly doesn't hurt my feelings, nor does it sway my opinion.

It's funny, but let me ask you a question that is pretty relevant to the title of this thread. "If all this hyperbole and "trolling" is such a problem and damaging to the game, then why is the game always selling/sold out?"

Did the complaining about double Falcons kill this game? Nope.

Did the complaints about swarms stop it in it's tracks? Negative.

Did the grumbling about Biggs kill this thing? Absolutely not.

Do I think the meta as it currently sets is killing the game? Not really.

Does complaining either in a hyperbolic fashion or otherwise help the game? Probably. The Tie Advanced is getting a fix, autothrusters are coming to the rescue, Chardaan refits! I don't think any of that happens without FFG's customers voicing their concerns on the forums. I don't think we should restrict anyone's ability to speak their mind no matter how crayon-eatingly, window-lickingly stupid we may find that opinion.

I bet you and I feel a lot more alike about this game's current state than not, but I don't want to stifle the opinion of anyone who disagrees.

And as far as attacks go, I've seen the forum etiquette brigade unleash as many, if not more attacks than the supposed trolls. It wouldn't take me more than a couple of seconds to find an example if you would like.

Hyperbole is a problem because it derails discussion, which is the entire point of the forums.

When people are attempting to discuss ways in which say an A-wing swarm can deal with Phantom and someone comes in and says something along the lines of "None of this will work. The Phantom will never get shot at or blocked unless the player just does something stupid". Clearly this is a exaggeration of some underlying point, but whatever could have been discussed is lost in the grandstanding. More over the hyperbole is often trending towards much more inflammatory then what I stated. And it certainly cuts both ways.

So when hyperbole becomes the way in which people derail threads or attack other posters then it is absolutely a forum problem. Those actions by any other name are trolling, and hyperbole is how some accomplish that.

Hyperbole starts discussion. Seriously. You are much more likely to click and reply to a thread that gets your hackles up than one that says "everything is awesome!!!"

Also, why are you giving yourself and everyone else so little credit? Do you honestly mean to tell me if someone comes into your strategic thread and "grandstands", you lose any coherent thought? You honestly think that everyone who was thinking about utilizing EPT's and refits suddenly says "Oh, well it's all over now". I'm skeptical.

Let me see if I can put this more succinctly for you. This is an expensive game. If someone that just dropped $800 wants to come in and have a good moan about Phantoms, so what? Who are you or I to de-legitimize their arguments as simple hyperbole or trolling? It certainly doesn't hurt my feelings, nor does it sway my opinion.

It's funny, but let me ask you a question that is pretty relevant to the title of this thread. "If all this hyperbole and "trolling" is such a problem and damaging to the game, then why is the game always selling/sold out?"

Did the complaining about double Falcons kill this game? Nope.

Did the complaints about swarms stop it in it's tracks? Negative.

Did the grumbling about Biggs kill this thing? Absolutely not.

Do I think the meta as it currently sets is killing the game? Not really.

Does complaining either in a hyperbolic fashion or otherwise help the game? Probably. The Tie Advanced is getting a fix, autothrusters are coming to the rescue, Chardaan refits! I don't think any of that happens without FFG's customers voicing their concerns on the forums. I don't think we should restrict anyone's ability to speak their mind no matter how crayon-eatingly, window-lickingly stupid we may find that opinion.

I bet you and I feel a lot more alike about this game's current state than not, but I don't want to stifle the opinion of anyone who disagrees.

And as far as attacks go, I've seen the forum etiquette brigade unleash as many, if not more attacks than the supposed trolls. It wouldn't take me more than a couple of seconds to find an example if you would like.

That is, perhaps, one of the most reasonable, open minded things I've seen somebody write. Bravo.

Hyperbole is not required in order to criticize something. How is that not clear?

You do not need to exaggerate a point in order to get it across. Doing so frequently has the opposite effect as it turns discussion away from anything productive. Or it destroys people ability to appear credible on the subject.

Did me not saying directly that it was a FORUM problem get across to you? Did you not catch that it I said cuts both ways? A person rebutting to any criticsm in a hyperbolic manner is just as problematic as someone using exaggeration to criticize.

Hyperbole is a problem because it derails discussion, which is the entire point of the forums.

When people are attempting to discuss ways in which say an A-wing swarm can deal with Phantom and someone comes in and says something along the lines of "None of this will work. The Phantom will never get shot at or blocked unless the player just does something stupid". Clearly this is a exaggeration of some underlying point, but whatever could have been discussed is lost in the grandstanding. More over the hyperbole is often trending towards much more inflammatory then what I stated. And it certainly cuts both ways.

So when hyperbole becomes the way in which people derail threads or attack other posters then it is absolutely a forum problem. Those actions by any other name are trolling, and hyperbole is how some accomplish that.

Hyperbole starts discussion. Seriously. You are much more likely to click and reply to a thread that gets your hackles up than one that says "everything is awesome!!!"

Also, why are you giving yourself and everyone else so little credit? Do you honestly mean to tell me if someone comes into your strategic thread and "grandstands", you lose any coherent thought? You honestly think that everyone who was thinking about utilizing EPT's and refits suddenly says "Oh, well it's all over now". I'm skeptical.

Let me see if I can put this more succinctly for you. This is an expensive game. If someone that just dropped $800 wants to come in and have a good moan about Phantoms, so what? Who are you or I to de-legitimize their arguments as simple hyperbole or trolling? It certainly doesn't hurt my feelings, nor does it sway my opinion.

It's funny, but let me ask you a question that is pretty relevant to the title of this thread. "If all this hyperbole and "trolling" is such a problem and damaging to the game, then why is the game always selling/sold out?"

Did the complaining about double Falcons kill this game? Nope.

Did the complaints about swarms stop it in it's tracks? Negative.

Did the grumbling about Biggs kill this thing? Absolutely not.

Do I think the meta as it currently sets is killing the game? Not really.

Does complaining either in a hyperbolic fashion or otherwise help the game? Probably. The Tie Advanced is getting a fix, autothrusters are coming to the rescue, Chardaan refits! I don't think any of that happens without FFG's customers voicing their concerns on the forums. I don't think we should restrict anyone's ability to speak their mind no matter how crayon-eatingly, window-lickingly stupid we may find that opinion.

I bet you and I feel a lot more alike about this game's current state than not, but I don't want to stifle the opinion of anyone who disagrees.

And as far as attacks go, I've seen the forum etiquette brigade unleash as many, if not more attacks than the supposed trolls. It wouldn't take me more than a couple of seconds to find an example if you would like.

Yeah that sez it all. The point I wanted to make and discuss was simply why do we see weekly gripe/complain/skyfallies when the game is obviously doing so well?

It is just an internet thing, and once in a while people are in a mood to be chill or to fuss. Here the passion and care we have for the game is awesomeness, and much of the discussion is legit. Still being an older veteran it gets my dander up to see the waves of fuss fuss fuss.

I need to remember to just ignore post from people I do not like, and keep the fun in mind when a discussions gets hot.

I am one of the old wolves here, and I know **** well that the pups like to tussle and yip yip.

It's all good, and I am the master in my woods, regardless of what is going on out in the fields.

Yeah... that.

Do you want to know why the hyperbole is a problem...

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/134009-is-it-worth-getting-into-x-wing-at-this-juncture/

And who knows how many silent lurkers were having similar thoughts. And it doesn't help with conversations. I know for myself, I tend to respond in kind to hyperbole, which sort of makes it into a grand argument about who is right, not about the actual issue. And I would be shocked if making hyperbolic statements actually gets the designers attention over well thought out ones. Or, I hope they would listen to the the level heads over the panic.