I originally posted all of this on Team Covenant, so will post links to those threads here.

Essentially, for months I heard people say that a swarm is an auto-loss vs a Phantom. I have never agreed with that statement, so i set out to find out ways to counter the high maneuverability of the the Phantom. The following are posts describing my strategies that I use to beat a Phantom with a swarm. It can be done, and often. At Worlds last year, i ran a swarm. My first 2 opponents ran a Phantom, specifically Whisper both times. The first game I won 100-31. I lost 2 ships total. The second game I won 100-0. Yes, i won against a Whisper list, at the World Championships, with a swarm, and didn't lose a single ship. It can be done people.

The trick is to think outside the "box."

The first article was my attempt at reducing the effectiveness of a Phantom by executing a maneuver I call the "Death Blossom."

http://teamcovenant.com/hothie/2014/10/05/the-death-blossom/

The second article is what really laid the groundwork for beating Phantoms, the Drunken Shark opening.

http://teamcovenant.com/hothie/2014/10/13/the-evolving-shark-chapter-2-the-drunken-shark-opening/

The third article displayed some useful blocking techniques for getting into decloak areas.

http://teamcovenant.com/hothie/2014/10/22/evolving-the-shark-chapter-3-advanced-blocking-techniques/

The fourth and final article brings everything together, and lays out my overall game strategy for beating a phantom with a swarm.

http://teamcovenant.com/hothie/2015/01/13/beating-a-phantom-with-a-swarm-aka-thinking-outside-the-box/

You can disagree with me, that's fine, but I've beaten too many Phantom squads flown by too many different players to believe that a swarm can't beat a Phantom. And even in the games that I have lost vs Phantoms, I felt that I controlled the game and had chances to win. And before anyone says anything about my level of play, just remember the scene in "Hoosiers" when Gene Hackman had the boys measure the court in the arena. It was exactly the same as the gym back home. Likewise, my TIE Fighter dial is exactly the same as yours. The difference is how you fly it.

So take a look at my articles if you like. But please, stop with the swarm can't beat a Phantom hate, because it just isn't true.

You had me at "Drunken Shark".

You had me at hothie

These are great strategies and an excellent how to for those who enjoy running swarms. Great job Hothie!

you had me at jackie chan.

Btw great artical and thank you for posting it.

I like to throw in interceptors with Howl. It's very hard for anyone to consistently evade 3 hits.

Great series of articles, you inspired me to take out the swarm for a tournament today.

As you know I usually fly 8 Ties in 2 groups, but this time I tried your 7 Ties swarm with Howlrunner, it really helps with stabilising the firepower of the swarm.

Took down super dash + friends, chiraneau + echo, double decimators and a combo chewie+fringer .

Thanks for the idea.

Nice Job, Icareane. Glad to have helped.

Well, obviously the Academy Pilot is entirely OP and should be entirely redesigned. Nice power creep FFG.

But seriously, yeah, those are some awesome ideas. I've been toying with "going back" to an Obsidian squad, and this is making me think of ways to tweak it to my play style with some of your very cool ideas of placement and movement.

Thanks!

Can you talk about your use of Obsidian squad? Also your lack of PS1 and no initiative bid against opposing mini swarms?

Deathblossom is something completely different.

Hothie, great read and I agree with you, the Phantom can be beaten by a swarm and by several other non turret lists as well.

One plan I've been formulating involves 3 Avengers and 3 Obsidians which I am hoping will cover turrets, Phantoms and the new BBBBZ fun.

The meta is on a tipping point right now and I think the variant swarm may be coming into its own.

Can you talk about your use of Obsidian squad? Also your lack of PS1 and no initiative bid against opposing mini swarms?

Gladly.

My decision to run Obsidians over AP's boils down to one major factor: facing other swarms, especially Rebel Swarms. The PS3 for 1 point more is worth having the opportunity to PS kill a Blue, Bandit, Gold, or Rookie Pilot. This goes the same against Imperials, namely Doomshuttles and AP's.

As for the initiative bid, I have found in my games that Initiative rarely matters to me. So therefore I don't care about bidding for it. And especially if I am split up (due to my Drunken Shark opening,) it is more difficult for my opponent to block me anyway, so I don't care as much about trying to avoid getting blocked.

Deathblossom is something completely different.

The move in The Last Starfighter was the inspiration for the name. Shooting in many directions at the same time, where are you going to hide your phantom?

The whole series has been fantastic and I've recommended it go anyone looking for better ways to deal with phantoms. Super glad to see you still writing as I had caught anything from you since worlds. I'd love to hear your thoughts on dash.

Ive been trying to learn tie swarm and your articles were a starting point for me. Ive had a ton of fun playing against phantom and other flanker lists at my lga. I do have few questions about how you deal with other lists, mainly do you return to more traditional box formations when you face a fat Han? Do you treat corran horn like a phantom or do you use a different tactic?

Wow, thank you for giving me hope! I'd been sadly resigned to retiring my favorite ship, but will try to make it out to an event and give this a try! I take it you also run one group out ahead to get in the way of a turreted menace so as to be able to focus fire?

It's a **** good manouvre. And congratulations on using it so successfully!

I've beaten phantoms with TIE fighters before, but it's normally been with the more elite TIEs (named and black squadron); as a result, I've got pilots who manouvre after echo (Mithel and Howl with Veteran Instincts). I've always won by flying loose and splitting formation. Much as with the deathblossom, it's all about laying firing arcs across as many possible decloak zones as possible.

The difference, and big advantage, with your deathblossom manouvre is that, as you point out, you do that whilst still staying formed up around howlrunner, which gives that critical edge of firepower. A standard tie fighter's shot isn't that scary against something that's still almost as tough as an X-wing, even decloaked. The way it sets up to 'collapse' by everyone zooming out and koiograning back onto the central kill zone must be really disconcerting the first time someone sees it.

I have to say thanks. I've been looking at trying to improve my flying with just TIE fighters, and those articles have been very useful.

I need to figure out how (if) I can meaningfully duplicate the effect with only 6 fighters.

I've played against our local TIE/ph player, who tends to use two sigmas and echo, all with advanced cloaks. The sigmas tend to be easy enough to kill - a generic phantom with a lower pilot skill than you is beatable in a dogfight with multiple agile fighters. I tend to go for them, kill them pretty quickly.... then flail around trying to catch echo for the rest of the game. I wonder if that's a mistake at a basic level, and if setting up opposite and going for echo first and trying to blossom-trap him whilst I still have all six pilots might be a better plan.

I do like the idea of an Obsidian Squadron Pilot based swarm. More because it soothes my inner nerd rage to have Howlrunner actually with the right squadron for once...

I will be the first to say it.

You are wrong Hothie.

1. the sky is falling

2. Phantoms are broken and cannot die unless you invest in PS 10+

3. The swarm is horrible

4. Everything must be nerfed

5. None of the above is true

(great articles, thank you for sharing)

Great stuff there Hothie. Nicely detailed and a clear answer to the "a Swarm can't beat a phantom" claims some make.

The biggest take away here isn't the list. Hothie proves that it's the strategy and pilot flying that wins games. This is what separates the scrubs (I can't beat a Phantom without turrets! OP!) from the aces.

The whole series has been fantastic and I've recommended it go anyone looking for better ways to deal with phantoms. Super glad to see you still writing as I had caught anything from you since worlds. I'd love to hear your thoughts on dash.

Ive been trying to learn tie swarm and your articles were a starting point for me. Ive had a ton of fun playing against phantom and other flanker lists at my lga. I do have few questions about how you deal with other lists, mainly do you return to more traditional box formations when you face a fat Han? Do you treat corran horn like a phantom or do you use a different tactic?

When facing off against large ships with engine, there is one key point that we all have to understand: you're not going to kill them in one round, and you're likely not going to kill them in 2 rounds either, unless you have sacrificed your firstborn to the dice gods (not recommended.) So let's start with the assumption that you are going to need at least 3 solid rounds in order to take it out.

With that in mind, I usually have to plan ahead a few rounds. I send one group up to engage while the other group hangs back, preferably at range 3 of the large ship during the first engagement. Then I have to turn the back group in the direction I think the large ship is going, while also either turning or K-turning the front group in order to give chase. Hopefully I have enough ships pointing at the large ship by the time the third round comes, which is usually when I can take it out. Getting ships in the way of the movement is also recommended, but blocking a 1 turn and a 4 forward simultaneously isn't easy to do, not to mention all of the other dial choices, especially of a YT-2400. But splitting your forces up does allow you more freedom in blocking more maneuvers, so it is possible. But if you don't block it, you can expect it to boost away from you, which then it's almost easier to focus on the support ships if you can't easily catch it. Then you can regroup later and try to take it out again with whatever force you have left.

I will be the first to say it.

You are wrong Hothie.

Yeah, I get that a lot.

The whole series has been fantastic and I've recommended it go anyone looking for better ways to deal with phantoms. Super glad to see you still writing as I had caught anything from you since worlds. I'd love to hear your thoughts on dash.

Ive been trying to learn tie swarm and your articles were a starting point for me. Ive had a ton of fun playing against phantom and other flanker lists at my lga. I do have few questions about how you deal with other lists, mainly do you return to more traditional box formations when you face a fat Han? Do you treat corran horn like a phantom or do you use a different tactic?

When facing off against large ships with engine, there is one key point that we all have to understand: you're not going to kill them in one round, and you're likely not going to kill them in 2 rounds either, unless you have sacrificed your firstborn to the dice gods (not recommended.) So let's start with the assumption that you are going to need at least 3 solid rounds in order to take it out.

With that in mind, I usually have to plan ahead a few rounds. I send one group up to engage while the other group hangs back, preferably at range 3 of the large ship during the first engagement. Then I have to turn the back group in the direction I think the large ship is going, while also either turning or K-turning the front group in order to give chase. Hopefully I have enough ships pointing at the large ship by the time the third round comes, which is usually when I can take it out. Getting ships in the way of the movement is also recommended, but blocking a 1 turn and a 4 forward simultaneously isn't easy to do, not to mention all of the other dial choices, especially of a YT-2400. But splitting your forces up does allow you more freedom in blocking more maneuvers, so it is possible. But if you don't block it, you can expect it to boost away from you, which then it's almost easier to focus on the support ships if you can't easily catch it. Then you can regroup later and try to take it out again with whatever force you have left.

I will be the first to say it.

You are wrong Hothie.

Yeah, I get that a lot.

EU big ship players are going to try and set up a moment where you as the swarm player have to guess which way they are going to go. If you split your forces this is bad, if you over commit and your wrong this is also bad. I like how you plan out your moves here. You have to be thinking multiple moves ahead if your going to avoid being kited and picked off little by little.

Agreed. Generally he's going to be moving after you and he can afford to pull crazy turns thanks to his turret.

On the other hand, with relatively low defence dice, you can afford not to be at range 1 - which means that your arc can cover a much larger proportion of the possible manouvres.

I'd much rather get most of the squad firing at range 2-3 than one or two fighters firing at range 1.- firstly that means there is one specific fighter for Han to ventilate, and secondly, fewer, better attacks plays into the Rebel's preferred Defence-By-Token approach.

Obviously, this isn't the case for an Outrider. With two evade dice, a heavy laser cannon, and a close range 'blind spot', then it's probably worth the risk to rush it.

Had a try with the TIE/ln All-stars last night. It didn't go well. Mostly because...well....five TIE fighters with a Howlrunner reroll and focus tokens firing at range 1 managed to drop 2 shields, total.

i've never ready your stuff before but it's good to see that many of my own ideas are present in your writeup. i will most certainly be trying your opening, as i've been using the good old box formation (or rather, two of them) until now.

my build differs significantly from yours however, as i don't use Howlrunner. i prefer 4 APs, 2 Alphas and Dark Curse. the three dice and extra speed of the Alphas make it quite good against phantoms.