Hey,
We only recently bought the game and have yet to pass the interloot.

But we have a bit of a discussion in the group about dual wielding and want to settle it.

atm we do it like this.

When you have 2 single handers equiped (as 1 action we consider this) you pick 1 weapon card which ability can be used (knife or sword or axe).

You throw the dices that the weapon gives you (blue + yellow at this point), the monster then throws his defense.

Next we let the second weapon hit and throw again with the dice that weapon allows (not using any ability on its card), again the facing monster had to throw his defense dices.

This entire thing only counts as 1 action.

Are we doing this wrong or not?
The discussion is all about how little damage you can actually do with these 1 handers with just yellow and blue dice.

One can say but yeah its ability is in general usefull and good.
But then you actually have to HIT it and not be completely defended for poison, stun or what ever condition to apply.

Can you help settle this for us newbies !

Much appriciated !

When you attack, you pick 1 of your equipped weapons to attack with (see step 1: declare weapon and target.) You do not get to attack with both weapons. The advantage of having 2 weapons in your hand, is perhaps they have different abilities- one may have reach but be weaker, and the other may be only adjacent but do more damage.

There are a few classes that benefit from duel wielding weapons- the main one is the skirmisher, but the berserker can also get himself a surge added to an attack when he has 2 weapons equipped.

There's also a hero (can't remember which one) that gets bonus damage when dual wielding. In general, dual wielding is for versatility only, you don't get to attack with both weapons.

So basicly the people with single handers are pretty much only usefull vs white monsters with bearly no defense dices?
Or am I seeing this wrong?

Trying to understand how they need to actually do any damage or put on ability if they get out defended.

One-handed weapons are only marginally weaker than two-handed to make up for the loss of the other hand to equip a shield or a ranged weapon typically. If the monster defends, the hero doesn't get to do any damage.. that happens. If they didn't miss the attack they still get to spend surges, however! Fatigue recovery is possibly on a block.. so not a total loss.

Fatigue recovery is possibly on a block.. so not a total loss.

Correct me if im wrong but dont you have to spend all your surges before the enemy rolls his dices? So how can you recover after a block?

Attack and defense dice are rolled at the same time, during step 2. You don't spend surges until step 4. What Charmy is saying is that "dealing no damage" (more shields than hearts) is not a miss. The only things that constitute a "miss" are rolling the X, or not doing enough range (which can be corrected if you have a way to increase the range in the attack results.)

As Zaltyre mentioned, dice are all rolled at the same time. This means the attacker gets to see the defense results before deciding how to allocate surges.

Fatigue recovery is possibly on a block.. so not a total loss.

Correct me if im wrong but dont you have to spend all your surges before the enemy rolls his dices? So how can you recover after a block?

You are incorrect.

Attack and defense dice are rolled at the same time, during step 2. You don't spend surges until step 4. What Charmy is saying is that "dealing no damage" is not a miss. The only things that constitute a "miss" are rolling the X, or not doing enough range (which can be corrected if you have a way to increase the range in the attack results.)

See base rules, page 9.

1. Declare Weapon and Target

2. Roll Dice.

3. Check Range.

4. Spend Surges.

5. Deal Damage.

I be darned that explains a lot, we been doing this wrong

We are new into this type of game and still trying to get the hang in it

Thanks a lot for all the help !

I be darned that explains a lot, we been doing this wrong

We are new into this type of game and still trying to get the hang in it

Thanks a lot for all the help !

I am glad that the combined lot of us could help. We all had to start at the beginning at some point. There are a great bunch of helpful people/resources on this forum. Welcome, and come back soon !

Have another quick question which is a hot topic for our group.

We encounterd our first lava map and then the argue started...

The discussion is the following :

- If the hero with a weapon/ability knocks a monster into the lava does it die?
- Same goes for the OL, with his charm or knock if he drops us in the lava during his turn does our hero die or not?

We know you take 1 damage when you move over it but what happens if a foe drops you into it?

Careful with the terminology, it makes a difference in this case. It says you take a damage when you enter a lava space. "Entering" a space happens essentially any time you leave one space and go into another.

If you are knkcked into lava, you enter a lava space, and suffer 1 damage. The requirement for death by lava is a figure "ending it's turn" in lava. A hero in lava won't be knocked down just for being therd until he ends HIS turn in lava. For monsters, you have encountered a weird spot. The OL has a turn, but when the rules talk about a monster "turn" they don't mean that- they mean that specific monster's activation. So, a monster tests for poison just before it performs actions, not at the start of the OL turn. It will die from lava if it ends its activation there.

As someone who has lots of experience with lava and acid and heroes being thrown into them, I will expand a bit on Zaltyre's response.

You suffer 1 damage when you enter the "lava" space. Summoning a familliar that wasn't on the map in such a space, though does not count as "entering" that space, as they weren't on the map at all.

You are defeated if you end your turn in that space, so usually not a problem for heroes if they have stamina remaining. One way the OL can force a hero to remain in a lava space is by blocking off the space so the hero can't find an empty space to exit without defeating a monster.

Keep in mind that large monsters do take the 1 damage for entering a lava space but are not defeated unless their entire base is in the lava.

Defeated heroes who are brought back to life do not take 1 damage for coming back into the space, but would take damage from moving into another lava space, so if the Hero was thrown 2 spaces into the lava, he can't leave unless he gets healed 2 or more HP.

Lava is a very useful map control tool for the OL more than the heroes but there are some heroes that can deal well with lava.

I, myself , played a healer that had to dive into the lava more than once to rescue another hero. I would often emerge from the lava fully refreshed (no damage, no fatigue) and ready to rumble with the OL!

Good points, Alarmed. I believe a hero knocked out in lava is allowed to place his figure adjacent (or as close as possible) to the lava when he stands up. This prevents an infinite death loop, since he would otherwise be defeated immediately after standing.

Good points, Alarmed. I believe a hero knocked out in lava is allowed to place his figure adjacent (or as close as possible) to the lava when he stands up. This prevents an infinite death loop, since he would otherwise be defeated immediately after standing.

Do you have a source for this information ?

I may be wrong but this is not how I see it.

A hero knocked out in lava would required another hero to revive him instead of him performing a stand-up action else he would give a free card/threat token to the OL.

In real life, if I get knocked out, I won't stand-up 5 feet away from the spot I fell. Standing in an adjacent space doesn't feel right to me. (I know it's a board game , but I want to keep a realistic aspect to it (as mush as possible))

Also, I think that a player can decide not to stand-up on its own and skip his turn if no hero was able to revive him. In this way, he does not give a free card to the OL.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

It is true that every time the OL knocks out a hero, he gets a card. But sometimes heroes need to risk standing up / being revived due to quest goals, etc. This is especially true if they are revived, as they now have two additional actions.

It is also true that a hero does not have to stand up and/or be revived on their turn. They can choose not to.

As for getting to place a hero in an adjacent spot when they stand up/get revived, there is one clever way that this can be accomplished by RAW. If you move another figure (usually a hero) into the same exact square within which a hero token exists, then when the hero is revived, you are allowed to place them in an adjacent space, as there can't be two figures (heroes or monster & hero) in the same space.

I say usually a hero because this is what you directly control. It is possible, however, to use some form of ability, card, and/or weapon that has something like knockback which allows you to move an enemy figure.

Base Rules, page 10:

A hero can absolutely choose not to stand up. That can be really annoying for the OL.

My source is the "Lava" section in the base rulebook:

Any figure that ends its turn in a lava space is immediately defeated. Heroes that are defeated in this way place their hero token in the nearest empty space (from where they were defeated) that does not contain lava.

I was wrong earlier when I said the figure stands up away from where his token was- it's his token that he gets to place in another space after being knocked out, and then when he stands up, he's out of the lava.

BONUS LAVA RULE NOTE: Everything we're saying about lava also applies to hazard spaces. The words "lava" and "hazard" are literally interchangeable anywhere they appear in Descent. Fire Imp abilities, Boots of Iron, etc.

Good points, Alarmed. I believe a hero knocked out in lava is allowed to place his figure adjacent (or as close as possible) to the lava when he stands up. This prevents an infinite death loop, since he would otherwise be defeated immediately after standing.

As far as I'm aware, the hero revives where he fell unless that space is now occupied. The hero gets 2 red dice HP + surges for fatigue, as per the usual rules. If he's very unlucky in his rolls, or was tossed far enough he might indeed be going down next round but usually the hero can escape as I've never seen a lava pit larger than 3 squares.

This is the reason it's usually a better tactic to revive the hero rather than use a skill to revive him, since many classes skills only give one red die, or 1-2 HP.

I can personally vouch that Rendiel is the perfect hero for lava revival, since everytime he revives a hero, he regains 2 damage and 2 fatigue. Top that off with his Heroic feat and you'll be daring the OL to toss your allies in the pot. My ally also had a trinket that allowed him to add 3 to any HP recovered when revived or or recovering.

Edit to add: Well: colour me tickled! I had not seen that! You do get to exit the lava!

F.e.t.a.: But if he did not die because of finishing his turn in the lava but because of the 1 damage for entering? or the 1 damage from being thrown? Would he then place his token as per the regular "defeated" rules or the lava rules?

F.e.t.a.: But if he did not die because of finishing his turn in the lava but because of the 1 damage for entering? or the 1 damage from being thrown? Would he then place his token as per the regular "defeated" rules or the lava rules?

Strictly RAW, he would place his token where he fell. However, I'm 94.2% certain that this special lava rule was crafted precisely to prevent lava from requiring revival by another hero . As such, I'd be willing to bet the intention (feel free to submit it as a question, I'd love to know the actual answer) is that any time a figure is defeated in a lava space, he places his token in the nearest empty non-lava space.

F.e.t.a.: But if he did not die because of finishing his turn in the lava but because of the 1 damage for entering? or the 1 damage from being thrown? Would he then place his token as per the regular "defeated" rules or the lava rules?

Strictly RAW, he would place his token where he fell. However, I'm 94.2% certain that this special lava rule was crafted precisely to prevent lava from requiring revival by another hero . As such, I'd be willing to bet the intention (feel free to submit it as a question, I'd love to know the actual answer) is that any time a figure is defeated in a lava space, he places his token in the nearest empty non-lava space.

Good find Zaltyre !

So it is clear that you can't knocked out a hero multiple times using lava.

Personally, I would stick with RAW on this one. If a hero is knocked out on a lava tile for any reason other than for ending its turn on this lava tile, the hero token would remain on the lava tile where he was defeated. This includes a hero knocked out for taking 1 damage from the lava.

I feel that the wording " are defeated in this way " is to prevent multiple knocked out of the same hero.

Question for more experienced players :

If a hero is knocked down for taking 1 damage from a lava tile, does the OL still draw a card? (since the knocked out hero is not the OL's doing)

I feel that the wording " are defeated in this way " is to prevent multiple knocked out of the same hero.

Question for more experienced players :

If a hero is knocked down for taking 1 damage from a lava tile, does the OL still draw a card? (since the knocked out hero is not the OL's doing)

That's a good point- RAW, the first time the hero is defeated (if he is defeated by means other than ending his turn), he'd stay in the lava. Then, if he stands up, he'll be defeated again, and place his token outside the lava. Still a steep penalty, but it doesn't trigger an unending cycle of death.

Yes, the OL still draws a card. He draws a card any time a hero is defeated for any reason- even if that hero defeated himself. (See: "knocked out" in the main rulebook.) Most other abilities that rely on something being defeated will say specifically if this attack defeats... or something like that.

I feel that the wording " are defeated in this way " is to prevent multiple knocked out of the same hero.

Question for more experienced players :

If a hero is knocked down for taking 1 damage from a lava tile, does the OL still draw a card? (since the knocked out hero is not the OL's doing)

That's a good point- RAW, the first time the hero is defeated, he'd stay in the lava. Then, if he stands up, he'll be defeated again, and place his token outside the lava. Still a steep penalty, but it doesn't trigger an unending cycle of death.

Yes, the OL still draws a card. He draws a card any time a hero is defeated for any reason- even if that hero defeated himself. (See: "knocked out" in the main rulebook.)

Thanks.

I was starting to see a movie in my mind where a hero with 1 remaining health would voluntarily run into a lava tile to prevent the OL the card draw only to be revived and heal on the next hero's turn.

This is the kind of trick I would think of as a hero player.

Luckily for me, I am usually playing OL and this scenario is not possible!