I don't really buy into the idea that phantoms have somehow ruined the game. There can be no doubt, however, that Whisper has now held the PS battle at 9+ for quite some time.

If you were a designer, what new pilot, ship, ept, mod, sensor, or ordnance would you implement that could do anything about it in a way that didn't come down too hard on the other phantoms?

My suggestion would be to errata ACD to force the ship to decloak using the 1 template(1-bank for Echo) while the mod was equipped. The ship would still be pretty powerful and probably top-tier, but slightly less so.

Anyone else have an idea that isn't coming on a scum hwk pilot?

Design something that would threaten Whisper's top-tier status

blocking already exists.

All the ACD should have done is allow the pilot to De-Cloak after executing the maneuver on their dial, with a commensurate point adjustment. However that's obviously a pretty big errata to make.Whatever card is created, it needs to be a modification. Elite Pilot skills would only push generic pilots further out of the picture, and few ships have a System Upgrade slot. A Missile or Torpedo that mimicked the effects of Autoblasters at range 1-2 might be interesting, if only as a shot in the arm for munitions.

That said, I'm not sure a fix is really needed, or rather that the fix may already be on its way. Certainly it's reasonable to suspect that some Phantom pilots will soon be fielding Scum and Villainy lists so from that release alone we're likely to see fewer Phantoms and large-based turrets on the board anyway. Then, specific to that faction, you've got two HWK-290 pilots that can have a drastic effect on Phantom positioning. I'd say wait two months, then revisit this topic and see where you're at.

Veteran Instincts on Wes, Wedge, Luke, Han, Psycho Celchu, Admiral Cherry, Boba Fett...

IF I thought something needed to be done to the Phantom, and I really don't, I'd say that taking damage drops you out of cloak without the benefit of the decloak movement. IE, "When defending while cloaked, if you are hit by an attack, remove the cloak token from your ship."

But, like I said, there is little if anything wrong with the Phantom as is. They are powerful, but far from untouchable and even less unbeatable.

Add a TIE Scout (and some Rebel equivalent ship).

Includes a new action.

Sensor Ping: Choose one enemy within your arc at Range 1-3. Assign a Ping token to that ship.

Ping Token: When you attack a ship with at least one Ping token assigned to it, after the defender rolls defense dice, you may choose one die. The defender must reroll that die. Ships with at least one Ping token assigned to them may not perform Evade or Cloak actions. Remove any Ping tokens during the Clear Tokens step of the End Phase.

See the TIE Scout thread(s) for my other ideas for the TIE Scout specifically, though they don't have any particular relevance to this thread.

Not bad Levi. You could just add an expensive sensor system for the same effect. It would have to be prohibitively expensive I think though. Otherwise it would just eliminate phantoms. Their dial without cloak is awful.

There's plenty to defend yourself against a Phantom with: stress, ionization, positioning, blocking, etc. The issue people have with Phantoms is they are hard to get a hold of, mostly because people don't fly them enough to know what they have to do. If you understand that they have to move certain places if they're cloaked or they stay cloaked (or worse, parked on a rock if you take their decloak away) or maneuver in a way that allows you to take shots at them they are as frail as green dice allow. They are risky predators that can be whittled down or taken out in one fell swoop.

EMP Wave Generator

Action: Discard this card and Receive 1 stress token to perform this action. choose 1 enemy ship within your firing arc at range 1-2. Remove all tokens from that ship and assign it one stress token.

I'm not sure about the name or what type of upgrade it could be.

It could easily be a missile that is used in the action step.

Over all however I will note that I feel the phantom is a balanced ship though what to does to the meta is quite annoying.

Not bad Levi. You could just add an expensive sensor system for the same effect. It would have to be prohibitively expensive I think though. Otherwise it would just eliminate phantoms. Their dial without cloak is awful.

Note, since the Ping token clears at the end of the round, and you have to take an action to assign a Ping token to a ship, and the ship has to be in arc and range (unless they use one of my named pilot ability suggestions), it's entirely possible for a Phantom to cloak - just not using ACD if he's careless and gets caught in range and arc of a TIE Scout.

Plus, the Ping defensive die reroll is generally useful, and preventing people from taking Evade actions could be handy (it shuts down Isard, for one). PS order becomes very important once you start throwing out Ping tokens, as does Initiative.

If you errata the Phantom's upgrades, then you are actually admitting that the ship is broken as it is currently designed and needs to be fixed.

I would design an elite pilot talent for 1 point that let you get to a higher PS than any of the Phantom pilots, I would design an astromech or crew card that put a stress token on the Phantom whenever you shot at it. And I'd design several ships that have lots of shields and hull to withstand the Phantom's 4 attack dice and were able to shoot outside their firing arc so the Phantom couldn't get away from them.

Wait...

First you have to accept the premise of your debate and I don't. The simple fact is the phantom already loses to fat han builds. Nothing released in the next few waves improves them and everything else gets better. So There is no reason to reinvent the wheel just play fat Han And if you continue to lose to whisper with fat Han realize you need more practice because people have already proved it's a better build.

Jan Ors, blaster, VI and engine. HWK aka phantom hunter.

Restricted List: Veteran Instincts, Advanced Cloaking Device, C-3PO, Engine Upgrade, Millenium Falcon title.

42 pt large ship. When it hits something. Deal it 1 damage. Imperial so it can take rebel captive. At least another crew for gunner.

Fast dial not prone to stress. Fast greens.

And then give interceptors a 2 pt upgrade that makes them tank turrets easier.

Phantom should have 3 attack dice and shouldn't have a crew slot. It would still be dumb against swarms, but at least it's not one shotting a TIE every time it shoots.

If you errata the Phantom's upgrades, then you are actually admitting that the ship is broken as it is currently designed and needs to be fixed.

I would design an elite pilot talent for 1 point that let you get to a higher PS than any of the Phantom pilots, I would design an astromech or crew card that put a stress token on the Phantom whenever you shot at it. And I'd design several ships that have lots of shields and hull to withstand the Phantom's 4 attack dice and were able to shoot outside their firing arc so the Phantom couldn't get away from them.

Wait...

It's not that the named super Phantoms aren't unbeatable, it's that if you don't make a build that specifically deals with them adequetely you just auto lose. Try flying 4 academies and an Alpha Squadron Interceptor against super whisper. That's 44 points vs. 68. Note how the Phantom has a clear advantage in this situation.

Y-wings with ICT.

That's it.

I have met Phantom lists 3 or 4 times; I have won each and every time. 2 of those times, I DEMOLISHED the opposing squad! One of those games came right down to the wire with one ship apiece.I'm not bragging about my incredible skill or luck (or my opponents lack, thereof), I'm just not absolutely in awe of the Phantom (or Fat Han... or Super Dash... or...)

How about this:

Tracking Device - Modification (3pts): Ships within range 1 cannot perform cloak actions.

Advanced Tracking Device - Modification (7pts): Enemy ships within range 1-2 of you cannot perform cloak actions.

So you pay a heavy price for shutting down the Phantom as those ships will become immediate targets but it gives the player using them a crucial round of two to utilize them in combat.

Note the TD would apply to friendly ships.

ACD should have done is allow the pilot to De-Cloak after executing the maneuver on their dial, with a commensurate point adjustment.

That actually sounds fun.

How about this:

Tracking Device - Modification (3pts): Ships within range 1 cannot perform cloak actions.

Advanced Tracking Device - Modification (7pts): Enemy ships within range 1-2 of you cannot perform cloak actions.

So you pay a heavy price for shutting down the Phantom as those ships will become immediate targets but it gives the player using them a crucial round of two to utilize them in combat.

Note the TD would apply to friendly ships.

Iffy because making upgrades that specifically target only one thing is just bad design. Making people gamble 3-7 points just in case they face a Phantom is silly.

Now, if you wanted something that shuts down "after you perform an attack" triggers, that might work.

Phantom should have 3 attack dice and shouldn't have a crew slot. It would still be dumb against swarms, but at least it's not one shotting a TIE every time it shoots.

Only if you let them shoot every turn rather than every other turn like they currently do. And lowered its points.

Phantom should have 3 attack dice and shouldn't have a crew slot. It would still be dumb against swarms, but at least it's not one shotting a TIE every time it shoots.

Except that being "dumb against swarms" was exactly what the ship was built to do. The Phantom was supposed to throw the "play as many efficient grunts as you can" meta out the window. You can argue that it did its job a little too well and hurt other things, but you can't expect the squad it was designed to beat to have an easy time against it.

Did not read everything but I would allow ships of the same PS as a Phantom who do not have initiative, to have a simultaneous attack that goes off before the cloak action takes place.

Add a TIE Scout (and some Rebel equivalent ship).

Includes a new action.

Sensor Ping: Choose one enemy within your arc at Range 1-3. Assign a Ping token to that ship.

Ping Token: When you attack a ship with at least one Ping token assigned to it, after the defender rolls defense dice, you may choose one die. The defender must reroll that die. Ships with at least one Ping token assigned to them may not perform Evade or Cloak actions. Remove any Ping tokens during the Clear Tokens step of the End Phase.

See the TIE Scout thread(s) for my other ideas for the TIE Scout specifically, though they don't have any particular relevance to this thread.

For the love of the force.. NO MORE TOKENS!!!