I'd rather lose on my own terms, with a list I created, than conform to the "best" lists. When I build, obviously I build with them in mind, but I don't let it completely dictate what I'm going to do.

I love hearing about lists that hadn't occurred to me, or haven't been talked about with the same intensity as "Super-Dash" or "Decimator+Phantom=Sad Times for Everyone" winning.

Unless you really want to go Pro try whatever list is fun for you at the tournament. There are HARD counters to certain lists so hybrids may do OK or get owned.

I never play the same lists at home or at local store tournaments twice in a row. Its boring.

I think if your event is going to have 32+ players, then you have a good chance of having some anti-meta players out there. So, while you will need to be able to deal with the meta, you will also need to deal with the anti-meta.

For me, I'm going with 4 Tie Bombers in "My Name is Jonus". So far, it's great for wrecking big ships, but I need to work on playing Phantoms. I also need to see about B-wing lists. I'm learning to hate E-wings with the list.

simply to be competitive

Nope. You need an answer to the netdecks simply because they'll be so prevalent. Build to counter and the advantage may be yours.

Fly what you know and hope the dice gods are with you that day.

Pretty much the only thing with the meta is that you can expect to see lots of Decimators from people thinking they need that to be competative in the meta. That's something that can be exploited through liberal application of red dice to the hull.

Eh, the new Y-Wing title isn't out is it?

How about:

2x Blues with E/2 and Tactician (25 pts each)

Blue with Ion cannon (25 pts)

Gold with Ion Turret and R3-A2 (25 pts)

100 points of stress and ion and each part is equally interchangable as they are all 25 points.

I've tried this variant, but was a bit underwhelmed. You lose a lot of damage on the third B-Wing by replacing its normal attack with an Ion Cannon shot. and the Ion itself loses effectiveness against large ships once the Y-Wing is destroyed. The more standard Panic Attack list (three blues with E/2 and Tactician) seemed to be a lot more effective due to the redundancy in stress applications and coverage area, as well as the extra damage from the 3-dice attack.

the three big metas to worry about right now are swarm, fat dash/han, decimator/phantom

It isn't necessary, ESPECIALLY if you haven't practiced those squads or ships yet. It is more important to build a squad that you are comfortable with, but also includes things to help combat problem squads. Don't get me wrong, I took Deci + Phantom to my first store champ, but only because I had been practicing that archetype for some time leading up to the tourney, and I felt it had the best chance of winning. If you have another list that YOU think has a good chance if winning, there is nothing requiring you to change it up for a "meta" squad, especially if you think your squad is good against the meta. Ya know?

Nera + Deadeye + Flechette Torpedo

Roark + Ion turret

Blue + FCS

Rookie + R3-A2

I like this a lot, too, and have toyed with something similar. I wish I could shoehorn another Flechette in for Nera, though, maybe with a Failsafe as well--which you can do if you demote Blue Squadron to another Rookie. But then I'm running a list with two Rookie Pilots, which is a competitive no-no lately.

You can take out the FCS for an extra Flechette on Nera or if you really want to be creative is put a Tactician on Roark (althought the more expensive and dangerous Roark gets the more of a target he becomes).

1. Fly what you're good at. If you create a list 3 days before and don't fly it and go against someone who has flown it for weeks especially if it's a top tier competitive list then don't expect to do well.

2. You're going to be going up against some people who want to win and do so by practicing with and bringing top tier lists, these are your swarms, fat turrets, phantoms and so on. These are all good solid lists that mediocre players can fly well well and great players can fly amazing. The same ships and builds are available to everyone.

3. Not trying to rain on a parade but the dice bags are terrible quality. I got one the other day and was very disappointed. I won't use it but I can't imagine it holding together for very long.

3. Not trying to rain on a parade but the dice bags are terrible quality. I got one the other day and was very disappointed. I won't use it but I can't imagine it holding together for very long.

But the focus tokens are awesome!

I can tell you at the last Store Championship I was at the field was mostly Fat-Decimators/Fat Han/SuperDash.. If it were me, I would play builds that beat that. Either join the crowd and build your fat-whatever to beat other fat-whatevers, like Paul Heaver did for Worlds 2014, or fly something completely off the wall that only does well against those builds. Like Swarms for example.

Personally I really like the classic Howlrunner + Backstabber + 5 Obsidian Squadron Pilots list or the 4 Blue + 1 Bandit list. These melt big ships in a heart beat!

The Meta “complaints” aren’t really fair. Anytime you are at tournaments there is a level of competition in which players will use whatever the most “broken” ships are, the reality is that you need to ask yourself why you are playing. If you care at all about winning then you need to “Metagame” which in this game is the simple act of factoring in how your squad will do against expected squads. The idea that you are playing “counter-meta” squads is the very essence of playing the Meta.

There is always a Meta, it just might not be fully established or in flux. At this time there is a definite Meta and it has to do with what gets played heavily and what beats what. If there was a “counter-meta” it would NOT be “counter-meta”. It would be part of the Meta.

For example 4 random rebel ships flying in formation could be in the Meta and it used to be. BUT “counter-meta” was a Whisper. Now Whisper isn’t a tech counter to the Meta, it simply becomes part of the Meta. The Meta is literally the competitive food chain, but it also isn’t the end all be all since you will see different builds win, their odds are just lower.

I don’t get why people get upset and refuse to play Han Solo. Because he is imbalanced and basically unfair in comparison to other ships? If you get off on being the underdog and winning then yes fly your 4 TIE Advanced build and try to win, but this is in context of a tournament where the goal is trying to win, not have the most style or cool points. I play for fun in casual games and no I won’t use Han, but once I am putting money down and prizes are up for grabs, then hell yes I am going to use whichever squad I think has the best chance of winning.

Bring something consistent that doesn't rely on the dice. In a tournament, shields and arc-dodging is much better than green dice.

Also, bring something that you actually know how to use. If you've never played Panic Attack, don't use it, and if you want to use a list, make sure you practice with it against whatever the top lists are and know how to beat them.

Also try not to get too complicated with your list. As said above, you don't get style points for playing a list where each ship has 5 different abilities you need to remember, and it can be very difficult to remember all of your effects as the day goes on.

I played in and won(4-0) my first ever xwing tourney(17 players).

I would recommend flying whichever list:
a) will be the most fun

b) you have the most experience with

c) will be competitive

I flew BBBZY w/ blaster turret.

Going into the event I knew what I wanted to do and how I wanted to fly it and didn't let anyone dictate/intimidate me into changing my plan.

My primary goals were:

1. everyone actions

2. overlapping fields of fire.

It worked. I won.

7 Z-95's and a refit A Wing, or an equivalent Tie Swarm. Whenever you have to face a Decimator Phantom list, focus down the Decimator ASAP and then run from the Phantom. First chance you get stack 8 target locks on the Decimator and spend them as needed. Don't even bother shooting the Phantom, it's impossible to kill with a swarm unless he asteroid parks it.

It will take so long for you to legitimately move your ships that he shouldn't be able to get enough rounds to kill enough of your swarm to win in a 60 minute game. Make sure you focus down that Decimator though, block it, 4 straight through asteroids, whatever.

ITs completely not.

There's one that you forgot:

Rebel Control:

Roark Garnet (19)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Moldy Crow (3)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

Tactician (2)

B-Wing/E2 (1)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

Tactician (2)

B-Wing/E2 (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

BTL only if you feel like you're very good at catching Phantom in low PS arcs. If not, go for the ICT standard.

This should have a great time vs Phantom Decimator. You can catch the Phantom. You have the firepower to kill the Decimator. You can even Ion it off the board with 2 ions a turn.

Decent against 5 tie Phantom, again catch the Phantom. Then don't fail roll dice.

Has firepower for Fat Han.

Maybe not the greatest vs Dash.

This is a better rebel control list:

Roark + Ion Turret

Gray Squadron Y Wing + r2d6 + swarm tactics + ion turret

Blue Squadron B Wing + ion cannon

Rookie x wing + the stressbot

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/134134-12-ps-swarm-tactics-ion-control-list-aka-the-phantom-player-tear-siphon/#entry1436705

I tend to lurk on this site, but with allot of people complaining about burn out from the meta, remember that the prizes are just tokens, pick a list and have fun...you never know what will happen...I managed to sneak into my top four with howl runner with swarm, a doom shuttle, a few ties and an alpha squadron...

7 Z-95's and a refit A Wing, or an equivalent Tie Swarm. Whenever you have to face a Decimator Phantom list, focus down the Decimator ASAP and then run from the Phantom. First chance you get stack 8 target locks on the Decimator and spend them as needed. Don't even bother shooting the Phantom, it's impossible to kill with a swarm unless he asteroid parks it.

It will take so long for you to legitimately move your ships that he shouldn't be able to get enough rounds to kill enough of your swarm to win in a 60 minute game. Make sure you focus down that Decimator though, block it, 4 straight through asteroids, whatever.

ITs completely not.

There's one that you forgot:

Rebel Control:

Roark Garnet (19)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Moldy Crow (3)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

Tactician (2)

B-Wing/E2 (1)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)

Tactician (2)

B-Wing/E2 (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

BTL only if you feel like you're very good at catching Phantom in low PS arcs. If not, go for the ICT standard.

This should have a great time vs Phantom Decimator. You can catch the Phantom. You have the firepower to kill the Decimator. You can even Ion it off the board with 2 ions a turn.

Decent against 5 tie Phantom, again catch the Phantom. Then don't fail roll dice.

Has firepower for Fat Han.

Maybe not the greatest vs Dash.

This is a better rebel control list:

Roark + Ion Turret

Gray Squadron Y Wing + r2d6 + swarm tactics + ion turret

Blue Squadron B Wing + ion cannon

Rookie x wing + the stressbot

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/134134-12-ps-swarm-tactics-ion-control-list-aka-the-phantom-player-tear-siphon/#entry1436705

Note that this list in lynch-pin'ed to the Gray Sq at R1 for Swarm to be effective.

You do also lose Roark's Moldy which actually makes his attack not-nonsignificant.

Ion vs B/E is questionable too, as again, 3 dice only works if you do get the PS12 boost. If you miss it, that ion cannon shot won't hit.

Chances are you might need to barter/trade/borrow the parts but here's an Imperial list that might cause a number of problems for Phantoms and/or Decimators.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 16
Proximity Mines 3

Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 16
Proximity Mines 3

Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 16
Proximity Mines 3

Scimitar Squadron Pilot — TIE Bomber 16
Proximity Mines 3

"Howlrunner" — TIE Fighter 18

You also have 6 "gravy" Points

eh... for a time I thought I was most comfortable with TIE swarm lists. The Imdaar alpha tournaments proved how wrong this thought was, so I really don't have one list I'm the most comfortable with. It was cutting egde before, but it just didn't work when stacked against phatoms. Once they blew up my HWKs, it was fish in a barrel.

I could try my Study Your Predators list:

Brath // HLC / EngUpgr / AdrenalineRush

3x Black Squadron // Predator

But with only four ships I can also see this being eaten alive. Those BSPs are too expensive for how crunchy they are, and it will only come down to how long Brath can last. I need more firepower or more tricks than this.

I like your second list Sergovan, for two reasons. One it means if I loose Dantels I still have something to fall back on, and two I like having some balance in my list. Four aces in different ships feels off to me, which is usually why I liked running swarms.

For full disclosure I have nearly everything. Multiples of the small craft, and only one shuttle, Decimator, and Outrider.

Hey just want to say your collection is miles ahead of mine and I'm also in the similar dilemma of what to bring. I decided to try something different with a vader + 5 academy pilots list. I figured the mini swarm has a decent number of dice for dealing with the big ships and vader would be my phantom fighter. I gave vader cluster missiles + shield upgrade and 3 points left over for your choice of EPT. Not saying its a perfect list, but maybe it will give you an idea where you can make a list that can deal with the meta while still being something fairly close to lists you got a lot of experience.

Anyway dont get stressed over it. You will find something you can play and have fun with.

eh... for a time I thought I was most comfortable with TIE swarm lists. The Imdaar alpha tournaments proved how wrong this thought was, so I really don't have one list I'm the most comfortable with. It was cutting egde before, but it just didn't work when stacked against phatoms. Once they blew up my HWKs, it was fish in a barrel.

I could try my Study Your Predators list:

Brath // HLC / EngUpgr / AdrenalineRush

3x Black Squadron // Predator

But with only four ships I can also see this being eaten alive. Those BSPs are too expensive for how crunchy they are, and it will only come down to how long Brath can last. I need more firepower or more tricks than this.

I like your second list Sergovan, for two reasons. One it means if I loose Dantels I still have something to fall back on, and two I like having some balance in my list. Four aces in different ships feels off to me, which is usually why I liked running swarms.

For full disclosure I have nearly everything. Multiples of the small craft, and only one shuttle, Decimator, and Outrider.

Norse, what ships are you most familiar with and what ships to you like to fly? If you like flying ships in the current meta, don't feel badly and just go and play and have fun. If you want some help putting together a list that might run counter to the current meta but have success, let us know what your favorite ships (including those you are good with) and we might be able to come up with some better ideas.

My criteria when I build lists for myself is that I like to bring a list that that I don't think a lot of people are playing for the sake of variety, uses ships I like to fly (usually includes A-Wings, Interceptors, Defenders), and will be competitive against the current meta.

I just want to put something together that doesn't use the perceptively strong/overpowered ships and do something different, yet competitive. I'm a little startled that one of the regional tournaments ended with essentially a mirrored list... of a Decimator and a Phantom. I'd like to be competitive flying something that doesn't use either of those ships or a fat han combination yet can stand a chance against all three types.

If not, does that prove that you need one of those three ships in order to be competitive against them?

I've recently fallen in love with the modified TIE Advanced but, of course, can't take them. Even though I love the idea of a 2x TA and Defender list. I don't really feel safe with a handful of TIE Fighters or interceptors (which is why I always swarmed), and TIE Bombers are only as good as how well ordnance is performing (which is not well). I don't need bounty hunter scum, and I wish Defenders were cheaper. :C

This is why I wish TIE Avengers and Assault Gunboats exist, to give the empire that middle-weight reliability that I feel they're lacking but that's another story...

So, Rebels. A lot of stuff is overlooked and in general they deal with damage better than their imperial counterparts. If I'm going to think competitively and I don't feel safe anymore taking empire, might as well dream up some rebel lists. I might be too cautious with regard to Imperial fragility but, again, dice luck is the thing of legend among my friends for being notoriously terrible.

...TIE Bombers are only as good as how well ordnance is performing (which is not well).

Ordnance with Jonus nearby is an entirely different world from ordnance without Jonus, but I won't press the point further.

So, Rebels. A lot of stuff is overlooked and in general they deal with damage better than their imperial counterparts. If I'm going to think competitively and I don't feel safe anymore taking empire, might as well dream up some rebel lists. I might be too cautious with regard to Imperial fragility but, again, dice luck is the thing of legend among my friends for being notoriously terrible.

Stream-of-consciousness list-building is one of my hobbies! But I'm not sure anyone else is interested, and I am sure we're sort of in the wrong forum for it. So here are two more brand-new ideas for Rebel lists that I think might handle Han, Decimators, and Phantoms, presented without further commentary:

Jan/Blue/3x Prototype

Wes/Nera/3x Bandit

Everyone in my area is flying 2 ship builds. As long as I don't come up against my friend who is playing 86 points double phantom I should be able to wipe the floor of fat turrets. Mini swarms flying alongside a phantom or turret aren't a problem either. 3 ship power rebel xwing/b wing builds are a bit scary with their ability to kill a ship or two a turn, but I have 8 lol.

Someone jousted my 8 ship rebel swarm last time I played it with their lambda. 8 target locks.

If everyone follows the meta it is even more fun to ignore it.

"Aah, nice to meet you, I play Fat Han, and you....., what....., what....? That's not a meta-build! What am I supposed to do now?!?