Is it time for the return of an archetype?

By DraconPyrothayan, in X-Wing

Alpha Strikes. They work on the following gamble:

On the first or second round of actual combat, you improve your ability to attack with ordnance, with the theory that you should be able to destroy more points of your opposing fleet with that onslaught than you spent on the fired rockets.

In subsequent rounds of combat, you should therefore have the advantage.

The reason I bring this up:

  • We're currently dealing with a metagame of very few ships in a fleet, meaning that a well-executed Alpha Strike will cripple an opposing fleet by 30-40 points.
  • The Z-95 Headhunter means that we can theoretically Alpha Strike with 5-7 missile carriers.
  • Swarms are a decent counter to the fleets they vastly outnumber, so 5-7 Z-95s should have a great clean-up after the Alpha.

So: If we've determined that the idea is sound, let us actually decide which ordnance to use, before discussing its downsides.

  • 3 points: Ion Pulse Missiles, Proton Rockets
    • IPM deal one damage each, and the Ion tokens do not meaningfully stack.
    • Prockets attack for 4 on a Z-95, and are best used after combat turns 2-3. They are the most easily fired of the missiles if you can close the gap, though.
  • 4 points: Cluster Missiles, Concussion Missiles
    • Cluster Missiles are amazing against ships with low agility, like the Falcon and Decimator. Against the Outrider, E-Wing, and Phantom, they're not nearly as useful. Still, being a Range 1-2 shot, you suffer less from a low Pilot-Skill fleet.
    • Concussion Missiles are the other side of high-damage ordnance against a single target. In this case, they carry an expected damage output of 2.68..., but with a 59% chance of rolling 3 damage or higher.
  • 5 points: Assault Missiles, Homing Missiles
    • Assault missiles have the highest theoretical damage output in the game, and they're astonishingly good en-masse against a swarm, or in Epic. Not so much when the splash is so easily avoided as a 2 ship meta.
    • Homing missiles have an expected damage of 3, as you can spend your target lock to re-roll any misses, and play better against ships who Evade for added survivability.

So. The reason I posted them thusly is so we can meaningfully differentiate between them.

Notably, a 3-4 point missile can be on 6 headhunters, whereas a 5 point missile can only be on 5.

Therefore, the highest damage options we have are the Cluster Missile (expected damage = 1.5 over two attacks, so similar to 3 vs 2x Agility), and the Concussion Missile (expected damage = 2.65 and a bit), over 6 ships' attacks. (18 vs 2x agility, and 16.1 and a bit).

Can they carve their worth (24 points of Missile) out of the hull of their opponents? My guess is that it's very likely, and definitely worth checking out.

Agreed. Proton rockets are a fantastic way to eat ships. 2nd round, acquire but don't use TL from afar, then close into range 1 for the kill. They make A-wings pretty scary.

For the most part, missiles are overpriced (as are torps). But they aren't without their uses. If you save them for late-game, yeah. It's a waste. But to gain the advantage early...

Agreed. Proton rockets are a fantastic way to eat ships. 2nd round, acquire but don't use TL from afar, then close into range 1 for the kill. They make A-wings pretty scary.

For the most part, missiles are overpriced (as are torps). But they aren't without their uses. If you save them for late-game, yeah. It's a waste. But to gain the advantage early...

Exactly. Deal 24 points worth of damage to an opposing ship, take it off the board this turn or the turn afterwards, and see if your 6 Z-95s can take out Whisper or Corran Horn on their own.

I think a mix is completely legitimate. 3 Clusters and 3 Concussions means you have missiles optimized for both high and low AGI targets. I think the alpha strike has a decent platform on the Imperial side as a 4x Tempest list. Only 16 points of missiles, but much tougher, more capable platforms thanks to the x1 fix.

I've been sporting the 5pt Prockets on my Pyscho Tycho for several weeks now, and have only failed to get them out of the tubes twice. Furthermore, they've only failed to do significant damage once, and that's because I completely rushed it and pushed my luck by attacking without a TL (I rolled <boom> <eye> <eye> <blank> <blank>, against a phantom, who rolled 2 evades).

That said, it's been extremely difficult to get PS9+ pilots in R1, even with the crazy maneuvers Tycho can do. I would not recommend using them en masse. I would recommend concussion missiles though. I think a swarm of 6 of those could punish Phantoms and Fats and Corrans alike.

4 x Green + PTL + PRockets must be a lot of fun to fly, but probably not very competitive.

This must be a blast as well:

Tycho Celchu (26)
Push the Limit (3)
Proton Rockets (3)
Daredevil (3)
Experimental Interface (3)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

2 x Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) + Concussion Missiles (4)
2 x Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) + Ion Pulse Missiles (3)

Alternatives could be Expert Handling instead of Daredevil on Tycho, freeing up 1 point to upgrade a Concussion Missile to an Assault/Homing or an Ion Pulse to a Concussion.

Can also use Clusters in place of Concussions.

I'm not a fan of PRockets on Z-95, since it's 3 points for an attack with one extra die, once.

Edited by Klutz

I should give that a go Klutz. I can vouch for the awesomeness of Tycho though!

I got eaten alive by a 5 prototype pilot swarm with proton rockets.

He launched all 5 on my firespray and decimator.

I got eaten alive by a 5 prototype pilot swarm with proton rockets.

He launched all 5 on my firespray and decimator.

A-Wing Prockets are also viable in this form. 5 damage at Range 1 from a ship with higher survivability and better maneuverability is also promising.

If you want to add some extra bite to your alpha strike, you could try and fit Etahn Abaht in there...

With A-Wings...

Etahn A'baht (32) Push the Limit (3) Proton Torpedoes (4)
3 x Prototype Pilot (17) Proton Rockets (3)

Or Z-95s...

Etahn A'baht (32) Proton Torpedoes (4)
4 x Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) Cluster Missiles (4)

That's a possibility of 10 crits in a single round on a decimator or Falcon! :D

(2 each from the 4 Cluster missiles, and 2 more from Etahn's Torpedoes!)

First round in range, Z-95's take TLs and hope their defenses hold without focus tokens. Etahn can Evade + TL. If your lucky you'll strip all/some shields off the decimator/Falcon.

Next round, range 1 or 2, Z's focus and fire off Cluster Missiles! Etahn can Focus + Evade and fire off his Torpedoes.

Edited by Klutz

It's way past time, honestly. Jonus with two generic TIE bombers will swat your Large turret out of the sky without blinking. (It's actually kind of frightening, if you're on the receiving end.) I like Proton Torpedoes and Cluster Missiles for range coverage on the generic bombers, plus a Homing Missile or Ion Pulse Missile for Jonus, although I've varied that quite a bit in the past.

And you even still have room for as much as 27 points' worth of escort fighter(s).

The big question mark is whether or not you can handle high-PS Phantoms this way. Personally my luck at this point is about 50/50, and it's generally all about whether the Phantom pilot is overconfident enough to let you shoot at with the ordnance. In an untimed match the Phantom stands a good chance of cleaning you up, but in a timed match it can be hard for the Phantom to do enough damage quickly enough to overcome the early loss of a Decimator.

I still need to buy some Tie Advances but I want/need to run this:

4 x Tempest

-Cluster Missiles

-X1

-FCS

Fire at range 3 and gain the TL. Then move into range 1-2 and let the missiles fly. Even if you lose one, you are still rolling 18 attack dice (w/ modifications) against a single target. I don't care how Fat Han is, he will die. Hopefully then you can take out whatever his wingmen/man is with the 3 or so remaining Tempest. Against 3-4 ship builds you can always divide your firepower and hit every ship pretty hard. Maybe the one time where spreading your firepower out might not be a bad thing. It is like having 4 Corran Double taps in a single round. I think it might be a thing.

The big question mark is whether or not you can handle high-PS Phantoms this way.

That's why I'm leaning towards the 5 or 6 ship fleets. Il Fantoma does not deal well with being outnumbered 5/6 to 1.

Neither does Corran Horn, for that matter.

I often thought that a 6 Z-95 swarm with missiles could be effective, maybe not super effective but against a 2 ship list, it might work well.

4x Bandit w/Cluster missile

2x Tala w/Assault missile

That's a 32 dice alpha strike. :) Cluster doesn't work well against many ships but against a Decimator? It would be destroyed rather quickly. If the Phantom or Corran is near the Large ship, the assault missiles could catch it in the AoE.

Even against a Phantom, that's a lot of attacks for the green dice to fail on.

Gah, now I want to play that list at League tonight...

Edited by VanorDM

It's way past time, honestly. Jonus with two generic TIE bombers will swat your Large turret out of the sky without blinking. (It's actually kind of frightening, if you're on the receiving end.) I like Proton Torpedoes and Cluster Missiles for range coverage on the generic bombers, plus a Homing Missile or Ion Pulse Missile for Jonus, although I've varied that quite a bit in the past.

And you even still have room for as much as 27 points' worth of escort fighter(s).

The big question mark is whether or not you can handle high-PS Phantoms this way. Personally my luck at this point is about 50/50, and it's generally all about whether the Phantom pilot is overconfident enough to let you shoot at with the ordnance. In an untimed match the Phantom stands a good chance of cleaning you up, but in a timed match it can be hard for the Phantom to do enough damage quickly enough to overcome the early loss of a Decimator.

Drop one of your missiles and you have enough for a budget Soontir Fel. That would go a long way to helping you deal with Phantoms (and a lot of other stuff).

The thing that makes me shy away from Z's (I think Bombers and Advanceds, and maybe Y-wings are better for this role) is that to get mass, you don't have a true alpha strike. You'll probably have to go through two rounds of fire before the warheads leave the tubes, one only if you time it perfectly. That gets tougher. How many Z's can you kill in a turn with your normal lists? I wouldn't be surprised to lose 1 a turn, which means 2 Z's dead before missiles are away.

The thing that makes me shy away from Z's (I think Bombers and Advanceds, and maybe Y-wings are better for this role) is that to get mass, you don't have a true alpha strike.

I disagree, in that I think that Mass = a true alpha strike. I'm guessing your argument here involves something about Pilot Skill.

You'll probably have to go through two rounds of fire before the warheads leave the tubes, one only if you time it perfectly.

How could you go through two rounds of fire before the warheads leave the tubes? One, possibly, but any of the missiles that can fire at Range 2 are likely to be able to do so by the second round of combat, with only a modicum of predictive ability.

That second round of combat, your opponents are hoping to close the gap to dodge your Concussion Missiles, which is great, as you have more guns then they do, and therefore more of a red-die bonus, and will usually be done with the "Flanker" ship (Whisper or Corran), rather than the larger "Anvil" ship (Fat Han, Super Dash, or Decimator).

Alternatively, if you're using Clusters (or the less recommended Prockets), then you want to close the gap yourself, and that makes things very difficult for them to fly against.

How many Z's can you kill in a turn with your normal lists? I wouldn't be surprised to lose 1 a turn, which means 2 Z's dead before missiles are away.

If they only have 2 attacks per round, they're subject to high amounts of Variance, and also maximizes the defensive quality of token-spending (That is to say, you can spend your Focus Token to lessen the damage a full half of their attacks.)

Between the two, losing a Z95 before it looses its missile is not unexpected, but it is also certainly not a guarantee.

In other news, I'd love to see what MajorJuggler thinks on this subject :)

The real problem I find is that those low PS Z's have to get TLs up to effectively use their ordnance, so you have to correctly guess who is going to be in your arc and in range by the end of the activation phase. I suppose its a great way to end fat turrets but against small ship lists it requires some guess work.

For my ordnance needs I prefer Horton Salm. Possibly with deadeye (and the astromech that lets him take it).

I suppose its a great way to end fat turrets but against small ship lists it requires some guess work.

Exactly. It's a metagame call, and is most viable against 2-ship or 3-ship builds, which are very popular right now.

Ordnance is tricky to pull off, and most times is a big gamble. I've flown bomber builds where I had everything set up for my attack, but the dice just failed me, and I did nothing. Sometimes it works great sometimes it just fails. I find that luck is too much of a factor my my taste. That being said, here's a rebel option that I kind of like.

Biggs

Tarn + FT + R7

x3 Tala + Prockets

Biggs protects your guys long enough so that they can get their rockets off. Proton Rockets are a good by. You also have Tarn as a good end game ship.

So, I'm now very glad that I opened this conversation, because it's made me think of two more variations (than just my Z-95 + a 4 point missile), and helped me codify the last one.

Z-95 Headhunter Alpha-Strike :

A mixture of the following, depending on which specific elements I feel likelier to face.

Bandit Squadron Pilot + Concussion Missiles [16]

Bandit Squadron Pilot + Cluster Missiles [16]

Bandit Squadron Pilot + Concussion Missiles + Munitions Failsafe [17]

Tala Squadron Pilot + Concussion Missiles [17]

I am not including Failsafes on ships with Cluster Missiles, but with Concussions, they can prove to be invaluable.

Similarly, the Tala Squadron Pilot is better used with Concussions than with Clusters, because the PS bid is there for bettering my chances against Swarms.

Aprockolypse :

A-Wings are simply less likely to die before launching their ordnance than their less agile and more fragile ancestors. Moreover, the Proton Rocket is simply astonishing value on a 3 agility ship, with an expected rate of damage of 3.75.

The A-Wing also has the nimbleness to get into that Range 1 very quickly.

5x Prototype Pilot + Proton Rockets [20]

Sweet Jonus' Badass Song :

One of two different philosophies about this fleet, but I cannot think of a way to keep Jonus alive at this juncture.

4x Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Flechette Torpedoes + Munitions Failsafe [19]

Captain Jonus + Flechette Torpedoes [24]

Jonus here acts as a Pseudo-Biggs, as he's the clearest target. Moreover, with his incredible pilot ability, if he stays alive for the first round of combat, you can truly expect your opponents to get thoroughly destroyed.

Of the options I've presented thus far, Scimitars are the most survivable of the ships for their cost, and the Flechette + MF combo works great even if you don't deal damage to the opponent.

Picture stacking 5 stress on your opponent's Whisper on the first or second round of combat.... yeah, even if they survive, the Advanced Cloak has been taken out of the picture, so the ship's severely crippled.

Ordnance is tricky to pull off, and most times is a big gamble. I've flown bomber builds where I had everything set up for my attack, but the dice just failed me, and I did nothing. Sometimes it works great sometimes it just fails. I find that luck is too much of a factor my my taste. That being said, here's a rebel option that I kind of like.

Biggs

Tarn + FT + R7

x3 Tala + Prockets

Biggs protects your guys long enough so that they can get their rockets off. Proton Rockets are a good by. You also have Tarn as a good end game ship.

Why bring Tarn when you can bring 2 more Zs with Prockets?

Biggs + 5x Bandits w/ Prockets

I've been playing around with a scum swarm using Z-95s with hot shot blasters. 4 points with munitions failsafe make for some really fun ships. The iteration that I feel works best is 4 plus Kavil with the blaster turret and an agromech

I've been playing around with a scum swarm using Z-95s with hot shot blasters. 4 points with munitions failsafe make for some really fun ships. The iteration that I feel works best is 4 plus Kavil with the blaster turret and an agromech

I rather feel that's a new archetype entirely, but it sounds incredibly fun.