Yeah, please no 2.0. All the whining about it seems to be people who are just sick of phantoms and large turret ships rather than waiting for FFG's continual slow tweak style of balancing to kick in.

I'm not for or against X-wing 2.0, but I can say that the meta is stale. If it weren't stale, then you wouldn't see all these people unhappy with it being stale. Just because you don't mind facing off against the same lists time and time again means that it isn't stale.

The problem is, it's hard to say when that's a problem with the game, or a problem with the players. I don't mean that to refer to anyone in particular, but in my experience a meta is about complacency as much as, if not more, than the game itself. I've seen static games have their meta completely overthrown simply because someone realized that something no one was looking at was capable of wrecking the current top. The fact of the matter is, games like these quickly collect enough variables that even the best math can't consider everything, even if popular knowledge believes it has.

I don't think X-Wing needs a 2.0 yet, but it would be pretty cool if they could find a better way to do errata with a physical game. ;P

As I said we don't need a 2.0

maybe a new base set with "Force Awakens" branding and an updated rulebook...

maybe put some new ships in it like the new X-wing and whatever new ships the Imps use in the new movie.

put it out for December release and move to step 3.

(...profit for those who don't know)

How about we wait and see if it's a decent film before we rebrand everything huh?

I think that when and if 2.0 happens, ships could easily be given a single cardboard base with the ships stats. Pilots and their abilities would be unique ship specific upgrade cards. That would cut down on the cardboard and cost (cards are cheaper). For example the Luke card for the X-Wing would add an EPT slot, +6 PS, and his ability for 7 points, would be unique and X-Wing only.

This would also allow pilots to appear on multiple ships easily, such as our good friend Maarek.

And yes, it should be handled as close to Malifaux and Warmachines edition changes as possible.

What we do need is ordinance 2.0 New improved rules for missiles and torps, may be using a new type of dice and including reprinted cards for every ship released up to date.

Ordnance seems to work well in Epic games. Maybe it's just dressing for the occasion. Ordnance may not be the best for a dog fight, but works wonders on Large and Epic ships in a 300 point game.

As for stale meta, isn't that another phrase for ADD?

From the experiences others have recounted, your metagame seems to have been in the minority.

I disagree. Look at the 2015 Tournament Results thread. Check out which lists are winning. I'd say that it's about 60 (boring meta)-40 (decent meta).

The problem is, it's hard to say when that's a problem with the game, or a problem with the players. I don't mean that to refer to anyone in particular, but in my experience a meta is about complacency as much as, if not more, than the game itself.

I agree with this, though I do think some of the recent changes to the tournament scene also helped push the big ships forward. Shortening the time helped the big ships survive more as it can just take time to wear some of them down. The change to count how many points you lost, as well, moves towards that.

Companies can't control what the player base uses, for all we know ffg never dreamed the falcon would become so dominant and are left to break the meta as they did when tie swarms ruled.

Wave five was in development way before the falcon got popular they can't have known how dominant two ship builds are currently in comparative play.

I think AT will help alot Three interceptors will ruin a duel yt list pretty quickly, mechanics stealing actions and some other stuff like stress causing cannons will all help.

@Hobojebus: I agree.

I think my overall point of contention was with the OP and that the game wasn't stale. I think that it is pretty stale in my area competitively. When I go to events, it's the same crap over and over again. When I play with my friends, like tonight, we have fun.

The came will probably peter out in a few years. I mean how many new models can they come up with?

And how many colour variants of existing models will you buy just for that new card?

The only way a 2.0 is acceptable to players is when the players can get the necessary cards and other cardboard gubbins for not too much money. But this is not something that is financially interesting to FFG.

Actually, I just remembered something I want to see tweaked, and depending on how it's done, could be done much easier than having to change every card in the game: asteroids.

The fact that their collision and line-of-sight rules are not consistent with the rest of the game drives me absolutely nuts, and I haven't been there in awhile, but that inconsistency caused no end of questions on the Rules forums from newbies and veterans alike.

But this is not something that is financially interesting to FFG.

Actually at some point it will likely be in their best interest.

What makes more money for FFG, selling a upgrade kit for $20. Or having a bunch of ships sit on shelves and in warehouses because no one is buying anything?

X-wing 2.0? Its called Armada.

Streamlined rules and less token mess sounds like X-wing 2.0 to me.

In my experience the rules for Armada seem more complex, not less, and there are at least as many bits on the table.

X-wing and armarda are apples and oranges, different games with different scopes.

What if they just errated a few cards instead of making a whole new version of the game? Really, they could just ban ACD, a single upgrade card, and the meta would cease to be 8 fat turret lists in top 8 at every store championship. A single upgrade card vs. the whole game. The turret meta would start to die out as things like XXBB and TIE Swarm became viable again. Interceptors would be playable again without needing autothrusters because not every list would be a turret.

Defenders and E-Wings could simply have their costs reduced. TIE Advanced fixes are coming. FFG's steadfast refusal to errata anything of actual significance to the health of this game is keeping up the obnoxious rock paper scissors meta.

"Welp, my opponent has a Phantom and I don't have anything to deal with it. My only hope is that he parks on an asteroid." <----- is the current meta.

What if they just errated a few cards instead of making a whole new version of the game? Really, they could just ban ACD, a single upgrade card, and the meta would cease to be 8 fat turret lists in top 8 at every store championship. A single upgrade card vs. the whole game. The turret meta would start to die out as things like XXBB and TIE Swarm became viable again. Interceptors would be playable again without needing autothrusters because not every list would be a turret.

Defenders and E-Wings could simply have their costs reduced. TIE Advanced fixes are coming. FFG's steadfast refusal to errata anything of actual significance to the health of this game is keeping up the obnoxious rock paper scissors meta.

"Welp, my opponent has a Phantom and I don't have anything to deal with it. My only hope is that he parks on an asteroid." <----- is the current meta.

No, let's be more accurate. It is a single ship vs the entire meta. That is effectively what banning the Advanced Cloaking Device does. And if if that is what you think when you see Echo/Whisper, then you deserve to lose. I'm sorry if Phantoms are tough to deal with. But I have seen the fall to "lesser" ships.

I fully believe that if you keep Echo/Whisper at their printed pilot skill in order to use Advanced Cloaking Device, they become very tolerable, as the race to PS 9+ isn't there, as well as adding in a nice variety of pilots that can deal with them.

The way that this game is slowly expanding , shows emphatically that there is no need for a 2.0...With each wave comes a diff kind of upgrade or wpn enhancement...Why try to fix a game that is Nott broken ?...Ffg has stepped up to the Masses and we now have the game wich should Nott be named for Capital ship conquests...Scum and Villany , to add mischievous grievances to both of the Empire and Rebel forces...We even have Game mats now ; and an Imperial huge ship for Epic...I have seen alot of games crash and burn from greed and too many 2.0 conversions...

What if they just errated a few cards instead of making a whole new version of the game? Really, they could just ban ACD, a single upgrade card, and the meta would cease to be 8 fat turret lists in top 8 at every store championship. A single upgrade card vs. the whole game. The turret meta would start to die out as things like XXBB and TIE Swarm became viable again. Interceptors would be playable again without needing autothrusters because not every list would be a turret.

Defenders and E-Wings could simply have their costs reduced. TIE Advanced fixes are coming. FFG's steadfast refusal to errata anything of actual significance to the health of this game is keeping up the obnoxious rock paper scissors meta.

"Welp, my opponent has a Phantom and I don't have anything to deal with it. My only hope is that he parks on an asteroid." <----- is the current meta.

HAH! Your dreaming if you think removing phantoms would mean people abandoned their precious turret ships, they are good against so many lists because of the durability the falcon has coupled with its movement options.

With the release of 3PO and z-95s this was always going to become a thing, the phantom is just an excuse.

What if they just errated a few cards instead of making a whole new version of the game? Really, they could just ban ACD, a single upgrade card, and the meta would cease to be 8 fat turret lists in top 8 at every store championship. A single upgrade card vs. the whole game. The turret meta would start to die out as things like XXBB and TIE Swarm became viable again. Interceptors would be playable again without needing autothrusters because not every list would be a turret.

Defenders and E-Wings could simply have their costs reduced. TIE Advanced fixes are coming. FFG's steadfast refusal to errata anything of actual significance to the health of this game is keeping up the obnoxious rock paper scissors meta.

"Welp, my opponent has a Phantom and I don't have anything to deal with it. My only hope is that he parks on an asteroid." <----- is the current meta.

HAH! Your dreaming if you think removing phantoms would mean people abandoned their precious turret ships, they are good against so many lists because of the durability the falcon has coupled with its movement options.

With the release of 3PO and z-95s this was always going to become a thing, the phantom is just an excuse.

True. Before Phantoms came out it was commonly said that "turrets kept Interceptors honest" (by making them almost completely uncompetitive choices I suppose).

X-wing 2.0? Its called Armada.

Streamlined rules and less token mess sounds like X-wing 2.0 to me.

In my experience the rules for Armada seem more complex, not less, and there are at least as many bits on the table.

no fiddling for which movement token you need

no needing to stop and think over the variety of actions you need to perform

no dials with a dozen different maneuvers on it just some weird cup thing with one of four options on it

no being swamped with shield tokens, target lock's, stress, focus or evades

sure their different games different scales but their both plastic ship pushing games if you look at the way the phases work its pretty clear to see that its been designed to be more efficient so that you can resolve the turns of more ships faster. Id say it only seems more complex because its simply new and we are not used to the visual design of the cards and rules.

I'm not sure that I would want to see a version 2.0, but would like to see some more balancing of the earlier fighters. I'm a big x-wing fighter fan but find that its not practical to include it in a build. Same with the Y-wing.

Deleted due to pointlessness.

Why, exactly, did this get necro'd?

But the upcoming core set ISN'T a 2.0, it's just a refreshed core set with some episode 7 ships and cards....why are people so upset?

But the upcoming core set ISN'T a 2.0, it's just a refreshed core set with some episode 7 ships and cards....why are people so upset?

Because they think it is xwing 2.0?