We need a 2.0 so that a new damage has the possibility of incapacitating C3PO. Otherwise Fat Han is impossible to beat.

Obviously flame baiting.

move along folks. nothing to see here.

I agree. I don't want a new edition, but I do think the meta is stale at the moment. At least it is in my area.

Downside of the release schedule. Games with more frequent, staggered releases (Magic: The Gathering and Warhammer 40000 both have four+ releases a year, idealy each of which causes the metagame to shift) avoid most of the stale metagame issues barring the odd outlier. Underpowered releases are actually a bigger problem than overpowered releases, because OP releases still cause a shift, and you can release targetted counters in the next wave. With an underpowered release, you've got three more months of the same).

However, that comes at a cost- Things need to be rotated in some way shape or form, and that means increased cost for us as we need to purchase new things much more regularly. Magic: The Gathering's Standard format (That's the name, not the most common type of format played by casual players) generally has cards only allowed in for a year and a half barring a reprint for staples. Even if Games Workshop kept their plastic cheap, keeping up with 40k would be expensive simply because the staggered release of faction books* keeps the metagame shifting (Unless you have three copies of every unit in the game, magnetized to ensure all options can be used)

Wow, you just bought Scum and the Raider?

All your ships are no longer legal. The game has only four ships again.

I can't even begin to imagine how many players they'd lose.

They're not going to do a 2.0 for a VERY long time, if ever. X-wing doesn't have nearly a big enough pool to need rotation.

I doubt they'll ever do a 2nd Ed of the whole game unless the game dies and they're resurrecting it.

Wow, you just bought Scum and the Raider?

All your ships are no longer legal.

I can't even begin to imagine how many players they'd lose.

They're not going to do a 2.0 for a VERY long time, if ever. X-wing doesn't have nearly a big enough pool to need rotation.

Exactly. While I can see an X-wing 2.0 happening 10-15 years from now when the game no longer has new releases, the only major changes that could happen at this point are "clarifications" such as the new large ship barrel roll rule and autoblaster errata.

I have seen this mentioned a few times.

we do not need a 2.0

the rules are clean and our FAQ is relatively small (and updated)

the meta is NOT stale...the competitive meta is doing what it always does...it settles into 1-3 solid builds and it's up to the players to break out from that. Not the end of the world at all.

in one month a huge shake up of the meta is about to happen...until then play some fun builds or some meta busting builds. Stop talking about quitting or how turrets are broken...you want to see a broken game? Go play Attack Wing.

the only reason we "need" a 2nd edition of the game is to re-brand it to tie-in with the new movies...the rules and ships are solid.

I heard JJ is gonna do Star Warsings again... he dat guy fixed Star Trek.

ADD is a modern-technologic-fantasy.

X-WING is just fine thanks.

Wow, you just bought Scum and the Raider?

All your ships are no longer legal.

I can't even begin to imagine how many players they'd lose.

They're not going to do a 2.0 for a VERY long time, if ever. X-wing doesn't have nearly a big enough pool to need rotation.

Exactly. While I can see an X-wing 2.0 happening 10-15 years from now when the game no longer has new releases, the only major changes that could happen at this point are "clarifications" such as the new large ship barrel roll rule and autoblaster errata.

New player here. This large ship barrel roll rule people are talking about- Is that the rule where large ships use the fat side of the [1] template for a barrel roll, instead of the skinny side? Was that not always a rule?

New player here. This large ship barrel roll rule people are talking about- Is that the rule where large ships use the fat side of the [1] template for a barrel roll, instead of the skinny side? Was that not always a rule?

Nope. You used to be able to use the long edge. It was crazy.

Wow, you just bought Scum and the Raider?

All your ships are no longer legal. The game has only four ships again.

Yeah, they wouldn't do that. If they did do a 2.0, they would have rules for all the existing ships. They wouldn't stretch them out like normal release. I'm not for a 2.0, but let's be realistic here.

New player here. This large ship barrel roll rule people are talking about- Is that the rule where large ships use the fat side of the [1] template for a barrel roll, instead of the skinny side? Was that not always a rule?

Nope. You used to be able to use the long edge. It was crazy.

I can imagine.

Wow, you just bought Scum and the Raider?

All your ships are no longer legal.

I can't even begin to imagine how many players they'd lose.

They're not going to do a 2.0 for a VERY long time, if ever. X-wing doesn't have nearly a big enough pool to need rotation.

Exactly. While I can see an X-wing 2.0 happening 10-15 years from now when the game no longer has new releases, the only major changes that could happen at this point are "clarifications" such as the new large ship barrel roll rule and autoblaster errata.

New player here. This large ship barrel roll rule people are talking about- Is that the rule where large ships use the fat side of the [1] template for a barrel roll, instead of the skinny side? Was that not always a rule?

Prior to the Outrider the only way to barrel roll on a huge ship was with an EPT called Expert Handling, that lets you barrel roll for stress. Then, Huge ships used the standard rule (using the short side of the template). This gave them a huge range of movement, but as so few ships could do it and at a high cost it wasn't worth doing anything about. With the Outrider possessing a natural barrel roll they figured it was time to change things up.

Wow, you just bought Scum and the Raider?

All your ships are no longer legal. The game has only four ships again.

Yeah, they wouldn't do that. If they did do a 2.0, they would have rules for all the existing ships. They wouldn't stretch them out like normal release. I'm not for a 2.0, but let's be realistic here.

A new version of the game is what a Second Edition is. A completely clean slate. Total wipe. From the ground up.

If people aren't talking about a whole new edition of the game, they shouldn't call it that.

A completely clean slate. Total wipe. From the ground up.

Not in miniature gaming it's not. In 40k for example, a number of codex from older editions are still valid until the new one comes out. In 5th edition, people still used 4th edition books for some of the factions.

All the various units may be updated or tweaked, but pretty much all of the models are still valid and useable.

40k is somewhat unusual in that regards- Warmachine/hordes releases all its faction books simultaneously. Of course, warmachine/hordes also has to deal with the metagame being figured out more easily, but they don't have factions languishing behind the way 40k does when a codex goes without an update. Like I said, there are advantages and disadvantages to each strategy.

Well 40k gave up on balance years ago, book releases are to sell new models only.

40k is somewhat unusual in that regards- Warmachine/hordes releases all its faction books simultaneously.

Fair enough, Flames of War doesn't. In fact they really didn't update their army books a ton when they released 2.0.

But the point is, that in miniature games at least, a new edition of the game doesn't make all the old units invalid, but rather changes the stats and costs of them. So a X-Wing 2.0 wouldn't eliminate all the ships past wave 1.

Well 40k gave up on balance years ago, book releases are to sell new models only.

Eh, that sentiment is mostly the result of internet hyperbole. There have been a fair number of mistakes in the last few years, but there's been a gradual move towards balance- Assuming everyone plays at the same level (If someone is bringing a tournament list to a casual metagame, things get messy. But then, you can build seal clubbing lists in most miniatures games). There's still issues with the tier divide, but 40k's tournament metagame is fairly diverse these days*

*Actually, the level of diversity is getting to the point it's hard to compare data.

It wasn't always this way. I remember playing games at tournaments when you really had no idea what type of a list you would face.

That's not how I remember it. Until recently you always had to factor in how well your build would do against a Tie Swarm.

Agreed. Maybe heychadwick hasn't been playing that long but until wave 4, every other post was a TIE swarm hate post.

We had a member a while back, Gadge, who used to work at Games Workshop. GW had a major shift away from caring about what they made to making as much money as possible.

And yeah, before people start saying how good things were before Wave 4, Wave 4 was specifically designed to break the stale generic spamming and TIE swarms.

We had a member a while back, Gadge, who used to work at Games Workshop. GW had a major shift away from caring about what they made to making as much money as possible.

Oh, they haven't really changed that, but the last year's releases have generally been a step forward (Or at least, in the case of the orks and space wolves, not a step backward)

Well 40k gave up on balance years ago, book releases are to sell new models only.

Eh, that sentiment is mostly the result of internet hyperbole. There have been a fair number of mistakes in the last few years, but there's been a gradual move towards balance- Assuming everyone plays at the same level (If someone is bringing a tournament list to a casual metagame, things get messy. But then, you can build seal clubbing lists in most miniatures games). There's still issues with the tier divide, but 40k's tournament metagame is fairly diverse these days*

*Actually, the level of diversity is getting to the point it's hard to compare data.

I can dispel that in three codexes:

Tau

Eldar

Necron.

Well 40k gave up on balance years ago, book releases are to sell new models only.

Eh, that sentiment is mostly the result of internet hyperbole. There have been a fair number of mistakes in the last few years, but there's been a gradual move towards balance- Assuming everyone plays at the same level (If someone is bringing a tournament list to a casual metagame, things get messy. But then, you can build seal clubbing lists in most miniatures games). There's still issues with the tier divide, but 40k's tournament metagame is fairly diverse these days*

*Actually, the level of diversity is getting to the point it's hard to compare data.

I can dispel that in three codexes:

Tau

Eldar

Necron.

I did say the last year. Since then, Tau fell into line with metagame shift, Necrons got rebalanced (Wraiths are currently a bit of a bogeyman, but at the end of the day, they're just another flavor of shock unit), and Eldar have gradually lost some potency (And given Harlequins are getting their own mini-codex this friday, it's not unreasonable to assume Edlar aren't far from a new release)

But, if we want to discuss 40k balance, there are other threads for that.

That's not how I remember it. Until recently you always had to factor in how well your build would do against a Tie Swarm.

Agreed. Maybe heychadwick hasn't been playing that long but until wave 4, every other post was a TIE swarm hate post.

I've been playing since Wave 1. I haven't seen that many Tie Swarms in my area. People just didn't fly them much. The first time I saw repeat ships was with the Fat Han.

X-wing 2.0 would not be the same as Warhammer or anything else. For one, the main rulebook is free and downloadable. They can FAQ or change anything they want without having to resell anything. That's a different model than Warhammer. If they want to revamp cards, then they could probably sell some sort of 2.0 pack that had all the new cards with changes in it. They would repackage new blisters to have the new cards, but that's all they would need to do. They wouldn't need new minis or anything. Even with that, though, I don't see them doing it.

That's not how I remember it. Until recently you always had to factor in how well your build would do against a Tie Swarm.

Agreed. Maybe heychadwick hasn't been playing that long but until wave 4, every other post was a TIE swarm hate post.

I've been playing since Wave 1. I haven't seen that many Tie Swarms in my area. People just didn't fly them much. The first time I saw repeat ships was with the Fat Han.

X-wing 2.0 would not be the same as Warhammer or anything else. For one, the main rulebook is free and downloadable. They can FAQ or change anything they want without having to resell anything. That's a different model than Warhammer. If they want to revamp cards, then they could probably sell some sort of 2.0 pack that had all the new cards with changes in it. They would repackage new blisters to have the new cards, but that's all they would need to do. They wouldn't need new minis or anything. Even with that, though, I don't see them doing it.

From the experiences others have recounted, your metagame seems to have been in the minority.

So what would they do, exactly? Release a Wave 1-6 "2nd Ed" card pack with all the new versions of old ships and upgrades in it with new borders and backs to distinguish them, and overhaul all the current ship blisters and packs to have the updated cards so, say, all future A-wing releases contain 2nd Ed cards but are otherwise the same?

Sounds like a hefty undertaking, and it'd hurt Acepack sales immensely if you could get all the cards from the "upgrade" card pack. I doubt it'd be considered unless the number of "fixes" got so high and convulted that it became necessary.

And even then, it'd probably be much easier to just start packing TIE/x1s and ACDs in the next run of TIE advanced blisters, and Chaardan Refits in the A-wing blisters.

As I said we don't need a 2.0

maybe a new base set with "Force Awakens" branding and an updated rulebook...

maybe put some new ships in it like the new X-wing and whatever new ships the Imps use in the new movie.

put it out for December release and move to step 3.

(...profit for those who don't know)

X-wing 2.0? Its called Armada.

Streamlined rules and less token mess sounds like X-wing 2.0 to me.