I freely admitted to bragging in the opening sentence, not really sure why every one feels the need to tell me stuff I already know.

I for one have been reading this for some tactical advice, and would appreciate something more solid than what you gave. Another poster offered to draw some nice pictures to show what you mean. So indulge us.

Don't think you'll find any here.

Just a brag post

This isn't true, either. OP gave tactical advise. Spread arcs, block decloak lanes, don't overrun the target. Others have given advice as well. OP was admittedly excited about his recent success against a ship that so many people on these very forums have deemed overpowered and broken.

You're only seeing what you want to see, so you can have something to complain about. OP gave the advice, and also some encouragement for those struggling against Phantoms.

So I click on this thread because the title promises actual tactics, but instead it's just bragging about recent victories. Anyone have actual tactics to discuss here?

Read the thread. Tactics are discussed literally three posts up.

Umm... Saying do a bunch of one banks and slow play is not really much of a tactic

The op gave no tactic at the start of this thread

As so the title suggests

But when asked that was his reply.

One bank and slow play

Pretty vague

lol wut? Chain of events:

OP gives good advice as slow rolling and trapping a phantom rely on feel and practice.

Op's advice:

Phantoms are good not unbeatable. Basic truth.

Don't rush out to joust. Many do this, good advice.

Block the good decloak options. Good advice.

DON'T PANIC. Something everyone seems to do, good advice.

Know your list inside and out. Basic stuff.

The phantom isn't as tricky as you think, "whisper is always going forward", use that to your advantage. Good advice, insight.

Practice, practice, practice. Good advice.

Another post, a large post with lost of good tactics that work well against multiple things, not just Phantoms.

"Where is the tactics discussion?"

"Look three post up, are you even trying?"

You: "OP said nothing, no tactics discussion, all of you are mean and distorting the truth about phantoms."

Instead of complaining why don't you post your tactics for beating phantoms?

My issue with some of the responses are that they can be summed up with this.

"If you beat a phantom, it's because that player is bad". Not only is that a horrible thing to assume, it's also rather demeaning to the person who beat that phantom. Because clearly no amount of skill on his or her part had a factor...

Phantoms are not all powerful gods, who are immortal and can only be beaten because they were asleep at the wheel. Anyone who thinks so, as set themselves up for failure.

This, all of this, emphasis mine.

Maybe his skill lvl is just higher than his opponent?

That may be, but isn't that how it should work? Shouldn't someone who's better at the game win even with a inferior list?

I tend to look at it like this, you have 2 controllable factors going into a game. Your skill level, and your list level. Dice factor in of course but there's only so much you can do about that.

I figure if you add up the Skill lvl + list lvl the person with the higher total should win the match.

So using a scale of 1-10...

Decimator & Whisper is a 7, Fat Han & Corran is a 7, 6 A-Wings or 4 X-Wings is a 5. So if my player skill is a 8 and I use a 4 X list, my total is 13, if the other guy has a Decimator & Whisper but is only a player skill of 5 then his total is 12, so I should win.

Of course that's fairly simplistic but it makes the point, that player skill plus the list are what matters. But list alone won't win you a match.

I mean we don't know. Maybe.

Well someone who does know said the Phantom player is really good.

in the hands of someone unfamiliar with how to use it properly, it's at least as dangerous to the wielder as it is to the target.

This, so much this... The idea that a newbie can put a Phantom on the table and beat the store champion is just nonsense. Phantoms if anything are one of the more unforgiving ships in the game, and not at all suited to new or unskilled players.

Decloak, and fly a phantom onto a rock... that phantom is toast if anything is near it. Decloak and fly someplace so you don't have a shot, and you just took those 4 dice off the table. Decloak and fly too close to a pair of X-Wings, even if you recloak there's still 6-8 dice coming your way and all it takes is one bad roll and the phantom is toast.

Offering advice that is common sense

Slow play

Don't joust

Block decloak areas

Isn't that just common sense

Say what ya want but I didn't see anything new or ground breaking for advice.

I don't see anything here that helps a low ps generic xwing list help beat a phantom

Nothing that hasn't been said a million times before

He even admitted to it being a brag post

You wanted something ground-breaking in a post that has a title that starts "Back to basics..."? I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting, but OP's advice is exactly what he said it would be, basic. There's a reason why these tactics have been around for the entire lifespan of the game. They're basic concepts, easy to grasp, and -- most importantly -- they work.

If you wanted a dissertation on advanced tactics for beating named Phantoms, you probably clicked the wrong link.

Maybe his skill lvl is just higher than his opponent?

That may be, but isn't that how it should work? Shouldn't someone who's better at the game win even with a inferior list?I tend to look at it like this, you have 2 controllable factors going into a game. Your skill level, and your list level. Dice factor in of course but there's only so much you can do about that.I figure if you add up the Skill lvl + list lvl the person with the higher total should win the match.So using a scale of 1-10...Decimator & Whisper is a 7, Fat Han & Corran is a 7, 6 A-Wings or 4 X-Wings is a 5. So if my player skill is a 8 and I use a 4 X list, my total is 12, if the other guy has a Decimator & Whisper but is only a player skill of 4 then his total is 11, so I should win.Of course that's fairly simplistic but it makes the point, that player skill plus the list are what matters. But list alone won't win you a match.

I mean we don't know. Maybe.

Well someone who does know said the Phantom player is really good.

in the hands of someone unfamiliar with how to use it properly, it's at least as dangerous to the wielder as it is to the target.

This, so much this... The idea that a newbie can put a Phantom on the table and beat the store champion is just nonsense. Phantoms if anything are one of the more unforgiving ships in the game, and not at all suited to new or unskilled players.Decloak, and fly a phantom onto a rock... that phantom is toast if anything is near it. Decloak and fly someplace so you don't have a shot, and you just took those 4 dice off the table. Decloak and fly too close to a pair of X-Wings, even if you recloak there's still 6-8 dice coming your way and all it takes is one bad roll and the phantom is toast.

I don't deny that it is possible.

That's why i like this game, anything is possible

I just feel that it's not so easy as the op tries to make it seem.

If it truly were that easy then is everyone that bad and scared of phantoms that they all fly fat turrets since their release?

Which is why i keep making the same statement.

I also feel that of coarse his friends are of coarse going to stick up for him.

I said many times I never intended on being rude but i don't think it's so quite easy as he makes it seems

Also has any new information on tactics been discussed here that we haven't seen or heard before?

So you plan against a bad phantom player?

Echo is not echo across the board (you can say that again)

The fact that you beat the same ship with the same tactics twice in a row should say more about your opponent that your abilities to divine strategies for beating phantoms seemingly invisible to the rest of us.

The fact that the phantom player had echo in range to take enough shots to kill her by round three - twice in a row - is the real story here.

Dude, way to invalidate the original post. Jeebus.

Taking someone's attempt at being inspiring and saying that it's all up to the incompetence of their foes is incredibly bad mannered.

Now, as far as the Phantom + Advanced Cloak + Veteran's Instinct goes, it's above par, as far as usefulness of a ship goes. It is not immortal. It is not omnipotent. It is merely powerful.

The game is not so far off the deep end that you cannot deal with it, or that there is only one method of dealing with it. It's simply the highest spike on the graph of Usefulness we've encountered thus far.

Well it is worse than calling someone incompetent for whining about not being able to deal with Phantoms, which happened to this guy, so I'm a bit surprised he did this.

You wanted something ground-breaking in a post that has a title that starts "Back to basics..."? I'm not exactly sure what you were expecting, but OP's advice is exactly what he said it would be, basic. There's a reason why these tactics have been around for the entire lifespan of the game. They're basic concepts, easy to grasp, and -- most importantly -- they work.

If you wanted a dissertation on advanced tactics for beating named Phantoms, you probably clicked the wrong link.

Well I did think it would have been something somewhat new. Especially since he claims it works for all generic pilots.

This is where I felt he is wrong.

I don't see anything that helps generic pilots in this case. Common sense stuff yes, but i felt it is more of a i am so awesome post in the end

Offering advice that is common sense

Slow play

Don't joust

Block decloak areas

Isn't that just common sense

Say what ya want but I didn't see anything new or ground breaking for advice.

I don't see anything here that helps a low ps generic xwing list help beat a phantom

Nothing that hasn't been said a million times before

He even admitted to it being a brag post

Let's analyze this.

Point 1, slow play. How many times is 5/4 straight chosen as a starting maneuver? Is it lots? How many starting positions are straight line right up against the starting line? Is it almost all of them?

Point 2, don't joust. There is literally a huge thread dedicated to mathematically ranking ships on their straight jousting values. Jousting is a huge and basic part of the game. Turning away from this IS good advice as it requires a change in tactics(you know the whole purpose of the thread?).

Point 3, block decloak areas. I'd give this to you if the thread title wasn't "Back to basics". The OP expands on this with an interesting insight that I had not considered: Whisper is always going forward. Neat hadn't thought of it that way, thanks OP.

"Back to basics" because everyone is forgetting them.

I get what your saying VanorDM, but can you honestly tell me that in a lot of cases a all generic xwing list is going to beat a phantom list?

A list of 4 rookies, or 2 rookies and 2 dagger? Sure that's going to be an uphill battle. I don't think anyone has claimed otherwise. But there's a pretty big difference between difficult and impossible. Which is what some claim, that it is impossible for someone of equal skill level to beat a phantom list with a 4 generic X-Wing list.

You're not saying it, but I have seen it said before. That the only way possible for a X-Wing to get a shot at a Phantom is if the Phantom player has screwed up.

I just feel that it's not so easy as the op tries to make it seem.

I don't think he ever claimed it was easy, just that it can be done and he told us how he has done it.

If it truly were that easy then is everyone that bad and scared of phantoms that they all fly fat turrets since their release?

Group think and path of least resistance. Everyone knows that the Phantom can't be beat by anything other than a Fat Han, so that's what people fly... Fat Han & Corran is a solid list, easily on par with a Whisper & Decimator. So that means you need less player skill to overcome the advantage in lists.

Also has any new information on tactics been discussed here that we haven't seen or heard before?

I don't think anyone said this would be new and groundbreaking advice...

"Back to basics" because everyone is forgetting them.

This is the key line. We've collectively been scratching our heads trying to figure out how to deal with Phantoms, when the answer has been right in front of us all the time. Those four attack dice mean absolutely nothing if the Phantom can't shoot, either because your ships are out of arc, out of range, or the Phantom can't decloak.

We turned a mole hill into a mountain, OP is among the first of us to expound on the tactics to put the Phantom back in its place.

This post started as a reaction to the "x wing has lost its way" thread, to point out that the end is not nigh, phantoms are just as fallible as anything else, and rookie x wings are still pretty good.

Offering advice that is common sense

Slow play

Don't joust

Block decloak areas

Isn't that just common sense

Say what ya want but I didn't see anything new or ground breaking for advice.

I don't see anything here that helps a low ps generic xwing list help beat a phantom

Nothing that hasn't been said a million times before

He even admitted to it being a brag post

Let's analyze this.

Point 1, slow play. How many times is 5/4 straight chosen as a starting maneuver? Is it lots? How many starting positions are straight line right up against the starting line? Is it almost all of them?

Point 2, don't joust. There is literally a huge thread dedicated to mathematically ranking ships on their straight jousting values. Jousting is a huge and basic part of the game. Turning away from this IS good advice as it requires a change in tactics(you know the whole purpose of the thread?).

Point 3, block decloak areas. I'd give this to you if the thread title wasn't "Back to basics". The OP expands on this with an interesting insight that I had not considered: Whisper is always going forward. Neat hadn't thought of it that way, thanks OP.

"Back to basics" because everyone is forgetting them.

But the advice given imo is not enough to suggest as the title of thread suggests.

Completely destroy a phantom with any ship.

Some tactics work well with others, but this is just common sense and I don't see this as enough to help any common ship vs a Phantom

Maybe his skill lvl is just higher than his opponent?

That may be, but isn't that how it should work? Shouldn't someone who's better at the game win even with a inferior list?

I tend to look at it like this, you have 2 controllable factors going into a game. Your skill level, and your list level. Dice factor in of course but there's only so much you can do about that.

I figure if you add up the Skill lvl + list lvl the person with the higher total should win the match.

So using a scale of 1-10...

Decimator & Whisper is a 7, Fat Han & Corran is a 7, 6 A-Wings or 4 X-Wings is a 5. So if my player skill is a 8 and I use a 4 X list, my total is 13, if the other guy has a Decimator & Whisper but is only a player skill of 5 then his total is 12, so I should win.

Of course that's fairly simplistic but it makes the point, that player skill plus the list are what matters. But list alone won't win you a match.

I mean we don't know. Maybe.

Well someone who does know said the Phantom player is really good.

in the hands of someone unfamiliar with how to use it properly, it's at least as dangerous to the wielder as it is to the target.

This, so much this... The idea that a newbie can put a Phantom on the table and beat the store champion is just nonsense. Phantoms if anything are one of the more unforgiving ships in the game, and not at all suited to new or unskilled players.

Decloak, and fly a phantom onto a rock... that phantom is toast if anything is near it. Decloak and fly someplace so you don't have a shot, and you just took those 4 dice off the table. Decloak and fly too close to a pair of X-Wings, even if you recloak there's still 6-8 dice coming your way and all it takes is one bad roll and the phantom is toast.

Sure for an unskilled player that is true. I'm talking about for an average player. It does allow them to recover a bad dial decision to a certain degree. It does have a lot of dice to roll of attack and defence (with cloak). So yes it is a powerful tool. In fact I would go as far to say the power of the ship scales more than linearly with player skill. e.g. Player A is 10% better than Player B, but his Phantom is 40% more effective.

Congrats on your tournament result. My advice ranking for how to defeat phantoms would be:

1. Induce stress - this really limits cloaking and/or movement options.

2. Turret weapons with full range 1-3 ability - you can slide in behind a YT with no range 1 attack, but you have to stay within range to attack obviously, so this always puts your phantoms at risk of bad dice or being decloaked, or both.

3. Higher pilot skill - You will get caught decloaked when your opponent has PS 10+.

4. Block the decloak - this is easier than blocking the subsequent move.

5. Cover the board with firing arcs, especially from behind where the phantom just was - Echo can slide back a bit, but Whisper Is always moving forward somewhat.

These are tactics that make me worry about sudden death when flying a phantom. Bad dice rolls and crits help too, but you can't count on those.

So I click on this thread because the title promises actual tactics, but instead it's just bragging about recent victories. Anyone have actual tactics to discuss here?

These are written from the perspective of trying to kill phantoms, but I agree with those saying don't joust when flying a phantom as well. Avoiding arcs is your best tactic, followed by being cloaked with a focus, not decloaking sometimes, or decloaked with an evade, all preferably at range 3 or behind a rock. Sensor jammer also helps.

Learn to fly a Phantom, and you will learn how to kill a Phantom.

They seem invincible if they're at full health, but once they take damage, they die pretty quickly after that.

Eventually, the dice will betray you.

Whisper took barrel roll to get within Range 1 of a Z-95.

A Z-95 rolled two hits at range 3. Whisper had one hull point left but was cloaked and had two focus tokens.

Les'see..

Blanks

One Direct Hit crit..

One PS 9+ / 9 /w mobility and/or Navigator

Oicunn / Vader (Crew) / Splash damage from AMs / Splash damage from Ruthlessness

Low PS Proximity miners

Get one Stress with enemies that have arc on you / Rebel Captive

Two blocked decloaks

No target in arc = no ACD

One well-timed block / fortunate block

Turrets

Turret ships /w Gunner/Luke

The list goes on.

Summary, the Phantom has 4 "life" total.

It handles well, has to shoot and arc-dodge in order to get its cloak/ decloak"thing" and action economy (Whisper) going.

It is priced right.

It rewards skill and brutally punishes almost any failure on part of the player using it

The Phantom is fine.

Prediction,

The hysteria will end when people grow more accustomed to it.

The hysteria has existed for about 6 months. People have had plenty of time to figure all this stuff out.

It's not difficult.

A Imperial homer taking a one sided approach to saying how easy it is to kill the toughest/most maneuverable ship in the game.

Whatever man.

Yes blocking can work, but your opponent can just as easily blow you up with their higher PS ships positioning to kill just said blockers.

Now your perfect "its super easy" to kill phantoms is just Imperial Homer BS.

Now your perfect "its super easy" to kill phantoms is just Imperial Homer BS.

In other words... "I can't refute what your saying so I'm going to call you names."

A well played phantom should never get itself blocked much with ACD period.

Trying to do so will put you in a position to get killed by the other imperial ships if your opponent has half a brain.

So yes the OP is trying to overstate how "Simple" it is to kill the most maneuverable ship in the game (when equipped with ACD) with simple blocking.

A Imperial homer taking a one sided approach to saying how easy it is to kill the toughest/most maneuverable ship in the game.

Whatever man.

Yes blocking can work, but your opponent can just as easily blow you up with their higher PS ships positioning to kill just said blockers.

Now your perfect "its super easy" to kill phantoms is just Imperial Homer BS.

I also did it with rebels, using the exact same tactics, if you don't care to actually read threads before you comment on them.

A well played phantom should never get itself blocked much with ACD period.

And again someone who can't quite grasp that the skill of both players matters, because the Phantom is a "auto-win" ship that quite simply can not be defeated by mere mortals...

Despite the fact that the OP has pointed out he in fact does block the Phantom quite effectively, and does so to someone who is reported to have a pretty good grasp of how to play the phantom.

But clearly he and everyone else who's done the same thing is either lying, or played against someone who was braindead... Because what they are claiming can't be done.

To be fair I don't deny it can't be done.

I just know it's not easy

As you said earlier it's a uphill battle.

I just feel the claim is not always going to be as easy as the op makes it sound.